.243 reloading, case length.

[Arbrn Rngr]

Okay, so I just unwrapped my Lee Classic Cast Breech Single Stage reloader. I have NEVER reloaded before, but wanted to.

My brass is .243 winchester power point, 95 grain, factory ammo that was fired one time in my Howa Bull Barrel laminate, thumb hole Varmiter deluxe.

The average case measurement is 2.40 inches.

I am reloading with Sierra 95 gr TMK's.

I want as much accuracy as possible, so I took one of my fired brass, NECK sized it ONLY, cleaned it, chamfered the case mouth inside/outside, and tapped the primer hole for a 1/4 inch threaded rod.

I did NOT touch the shoulder, and as such, the case will NOT fit all the way down into a Lyman Large rifle, six caliber aluminum case length guide.

I placed a TMK on the fired/tapped brass and seated it just enough with my collet die to get it started in the case.

I then ran this into the breech screwed into my 1/4 inch threaded rod, until the TMK hit the lands, pushed back into the brass, and the entire round "seated" in the chamber.

The overall length on my Hornady Steel Dial caliper is 2.817 inches.

Just to be sure that the round would chamber and extract I unscrewed the "dummy" from the 1/4 inch rod, replaced my bolt, and chambered and extracted the round with zero difficulty. It worked just like a factory load.
Now, the "dummy" has NO PRIMER (as the primer hole is now threaded) in it, so I do not know if that would make a difference with my measurement.

So, my question for those of you with knowledge and experience:

The standard overall length for a win .243 is 2.7098 inches. Mine from a fired brass with the TMK touching the lands is 2.817 inches; 0.437 inches longer then standard. If I back off the lands 0.020 inches, that still puts me at 2.797 inches; which is 0.088 inches over the "safe standard".

Is this ok? Do I need to worry about extreme pressures?

Or, is this why we use fired brass and measure OUR weapon, to achieve specific tolerances?

ANY/ALL advice is much appreciated.

[rmelton]

First the trim length for a 243 is 2.035 but 2.040 is fine. you get about 2 or 3 firings before you have to trim the case. Next 2.710 is SAAMI max length not the standard length, 2.540 is min length. Most manuals call for 2.650 oal, can you go longer than that sure you can as long as you have enough bullet in the case mouth and not jam it into the lands.
When you checked the overall length to the lands how many times did you check it, check it at lease 5 times to be sure.

[Arbrn Rngr]

rmelton, thank you for your reply.

I'm pretty OCD, so I checked it about a DOZEN times. I am a newbie to reloading, but have been around weapons all my life, know the potential for mistakes that lead to injury.

How do you know if you have "enough" bullet for the case to get a "good" bite?

Do you mic them or is it more "eyeballing" a percentage of how much is in there?

I'm not BR shooting or doing any kind of competition. I just get a thrill out of placing a projectile .243 inches in dia. where I (exactly) want it at 200-400 M.

That is why in all my readings for accuracy I am "tapping" the lands and backing off .020".

So, I hear you saying, basically, that the safe OVL is an "average"?

Is it "normal" that each breech/barrel may be bored/cast a bit longer or shorter?

If my "dummy" round will chamber/extract w/o any binding, resistance, etc....is that a fairly good indication that I'm probably NOT going to blow my face off.

[Arbrn Rngr]

rmelton,

Also, as a side note. I was weighing my Sierra TMK's...95.1, 95.0, 94.9.....then I came upon one that weighed 28.5 grains!!!

Looked like the other but even "felt" lite.

As stated I am OCD, must have re-calibrated/reweighed a hundred times....28.5 grains....you ever run across that??

[RC20]

I will take a crack at this.

Chambers have a variation, no idea on Howa. Sako (at least the old ones) had a very long throat (before the bullet hits the lands)

There is no such thing (within some reason) of a SAFE COAL. The COAL is to keep you out of the lands so your bullets don't jam (and yes, a jammed bullet and a high load will go over pressure). Not likely to blow up but could wreck a bolt with severe sticky.

You have establish the COAL with that bullet and that's good (just don't use it for another one.)

You are .020 back, also good, you have a jump, you won't get a pressure spike.

Some guns (Rem 700 Varmint) go long throat for the ELD bullets.

So, start low, load up and you are good.

The length in the book is a safe load for average chambers, mag length, the gun they used.

For the ones that are squeezing accuracy, you need to do what you did and find out what you really have.

I don't weight bullets, I have had a few that I was on target with and one did not even hit, I assume it had a defect or like yours vastly under (or over ) weight.

They crank them out by the hundreds of thousands. Happen in bullets, nuts, bolts etc made along those lines.

Worst is an electrical wire that they loose the thread strands on.

Run it 300 feet and nothing comes out the other end. Quite annoying.

[Mobuck]

I suggest you start reloading same as you would read a book---at the beginning. Size some brass, trim it to minimum length, prime,charge and seat the bullets. Then shoot those and see how it goes. After you get comfortable with the basic process, THEN, you can start tweeking things for improved performance.

[Arbrn Rngr]

Thank you for your input. I appreciate the advice and will advance cautiously

[Arbrn Rngr]

So, do you guys neck size fired brass with each reloading?

If I do NOT neck size, will it not throw my accuracy off slightly with different case lengths, amount of bullet seated, volume difference inside case causing varying pressures?

If I DO resize every reload, am I shortening the life of my brass considerably?

'preciate ya'll.

[RC20]

That gets into the deeper end of reloading.

Major disagreement, some neck size, some don't.

Part of what you are doing is getting the neck back to a consistent size.

For now I would FL size, but if you have a neck size setup then by all means proceed with that. At some point you will hit a limit and have to do an FL size.

Generally (my take) is re-loaders do not have weapons. They have guns, pistols and or rifles. Personally I tend to get turned off by calling guns weapons.

As Mobuck noted, you really need to get a reloading book. Its almost impossible to talk someone through reloading without both parties being on the same page.

It also helps you to get the basics. You will find a major disagreement between electronic scale users and beam scale users.

While I have no issue with beam scale users, some will dismiss electronics as useless.

They aren't but there are also parts of the operation you need to understand to deal with their idiosyncrasies (beams have their own but the calibration is not one of them, it is on a digital and you need to watch drift and zero it out when it occurs).

I was lucky, I grew up helping with reloading with my dad, carried on with my step dad and brothers. We always had a group to discuss stuff with.

When I took it to the next level there was another learning curves as a lot of what worked for hunting and straight wall pistol did not for target and had to re-vamp approach.

But the idea of starting with a basic hunting type reload regardless of what you are going to use it for gets the basics down.

[Don Fischer]

Boy am I lost! You are making a chore of a simple operation, I think? I think you are asking simply about the case length? If so I think all manuals have a min and max case length in the data for each round, follow it. Neck sizing at some point I think will require a FL sizing, does when doing so with a FL die. Every time you fire the case there is maybe just a bit of stretch in the case. FL size it and you will pull the neck over the expander nipple and you will definitely stretch there. Only worry about measuring the case length after FL sizing or partial or neck sizing with a FL type die. Look in your manual and you will see the length, max and min. Follow it. If your a bit under min, that's generally OK. If your a bit over max, that can spell trouble.

Step one, resize the case
step two, measure the case
step three, trim as needed
step four, prime the case
step five, charge the case with powder
step six seat a bullet. Use measurement in the manual and learn at some point how to
set the seat die to get the OLL you want.
step seven, step out the back door and put the round into your rifle and be sure it chamber's easily.

That's pretty much it. Don't make it harder on yourself than need be.

[DaleA]

There has been some really good information here.

I think the original poster is trying to get every little detail correct which might be over thinking things but when you're starting out it's okay and keeps you from blowing stuff up.

One thing that has me puzzled is this:

The standard overall length for a win .243 is 2.7098 inches. Mine from a fired brass with the TMK touching the lands is 2.817 inches; 0.437 inches longer then standard.

Is this just a math error or am I missing something? 0.437 is almost half an inch. Your reloading procedure as far as I can tell is just fine and for certain don't sweat it if you miss typed a number in your post. Just so long as when you're dealing with the reloading stuff itself you are correct. (That's why I won't share any of my "secret" reloading recipes, I just know I'd fumble finger some numbers and give somebody a recipe for a pipe bomb instead of "the most accurate loading for cartridge xyz known to man".

Once again I think the information posted here by RC20, Don Fischer and the rest is really spot on. I wish I would have had a resource like this one when I was starting out reloading.

Good luck.

[Arbrn Rngr]

DaleA, Thank you for your response....

...yes, math error, 0.108 would be "more" accurate.

Even as a greenhorn I realize that 1/2 inch falls more into the "pipe-bomb" catagory.

I spent 13 years in the military, have put A LOT of rounds down range, am a 60 Y/O, gulf war vet. started shooting at summer camp with a .22 around 8 Y/O.

Yesterday I put MY first four (reloaded) bullets down range outside my bedroom door on my farm.

All four were within a 2 inch circle,....which I actually consider "pretty good", since my .243 is scoped with a Photon XT NVD, I had aluminum foil wrapped around the front of the scope because the sun was DIRECTLY facing me, and the target looked like a fat ladys elbow at 100 yards.

I really appreciate the positive responses here on this forum. I KNOW I am lucky to be able to tap into a wealth of information from all-ya'll, that I have never and probably will never meet...technology...

I am NOT a bench rest shooter, I am a hunter and rifle enthusiast. As such I am amazed that I can (with the correct tuning) place a .243 inch diameter bullet in a squirrels eye at 400 meters....this is my goal...poor squirrel huh.

Everything I have read, watched has one continueum for accuracy, consistency.

Fire-formed brass seems the most consistent, so I will only FL size when absolutley necessary.

I don't want fifty different loads that will almost get that squirrel,...just one rifle, with one bullet, primer, powder, COAL that will have him living in fear at the top of his oak tree.

Again, thank you for your input.

[RC20]

Well you have to decide if you are bench rest or not (grin) the two are somewhat exclusive of each other though they share the same basics.

You certainly have the rifle for it. Keep in mind, with the 243 you have about 2500 rounds or so and you begin to loose the throat. The military has chrome lined hardened barrels, civvies not so much.

As it takes a lot of shooting to get good, 308 is a better training rifle. Some other options but a 308 will get 5 to 8,000.

You do seem committed, you might want to look at Savage as the barrels are easy to change (less cost if you do it but a gunsmith should be low cost).

A lot of aftermarket barrels for around $350.

Remington works but you have to get the barrel off first, once that is done the same setup as the Savage with a nut to set head space.

There are number of the bolt actions in the star wars stocks that also allow a barrel change but Savage has a lot more choices right now.

A lot of disagreement on the fire formed end, most bench rest shooter FL size though they tend to use custom dies.

However, you are getting into the sub 5/8 of accuracy node.

Due to your history, I figure you have been at ground zero and worked your way up so you know the start all over again thing (never served but I had 5 major different careers along the way - the basics of hard work and focus served all of them but each was a steep learning curve).



One more advanced process to deal with brass is the minimum shoulder bump back. Done right you can have as snug a case fit in the chamber as you want. Bench rest will go with a little tension on the bolt. I don't but I am not bench rest class.

I don't usually suggest that to a beginner as its in the advanced area. Not all that difficult but it does require more equipment (good micrometer) and the Hornady comparator setup (at least that is the lowest cost and works fine)

Sooner or latter you will have to do FL as the case will keep growing.

I don't do the neck dies, I do bump minimum are of .001 to .003 and I shoot sub 5/8 x 5 shots with proven loads.

2 inches is fine for hunting, but the gopher eye ball at 400 (not possible unless lucky) is the best bench rest with a rail gun at 200

A good trigger is mandatory for under 5/8. I can and do shoot an old 1903A3 with an awful trigger, you can get a fairly good release but its really a hunting rifle.

I never even held a Howa let alone pulled a trigger. So I don't know anything about their feel and adjustment. Savage in the Varmint acu trigger or even better the Red Bladed Target Trigger are pretty good until you get to the 3/8 area.