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Old October 4, 2017, 03:53 PM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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Feinstein's Bumpfire Ban Bill

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/pub...ention-act.pdf

Anything that is "designed or functions to increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle" is banned forever. Say goodbye to your belt loops boys!

On the bright side, I'd say the chances of that bill exiting the Senate Judiciary Committee are less than me winning the next Powerball drawing.
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Old October 4, 2017, 04:08 PM   #2
zipspyder
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I'm an avid hunter and firearm advocate and don't have a problem with this. We have to draw the line somewhere. Of course those who have stamps for full auto weapons should be grandfathered in. What problems do you have with people doing illegal stuff or soon to be too their semi auto weapons? I haven't read the pdf yet so maybe I'm off on my thinking though. Will read later.

[...]

Last edited by Evan Thomas; October 4, 2017 at 05:47 PM. Reason: Do not, especially at a moment like this, even appear to be condoning illegal activity.
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Old October 4, 2017, 04:34 PM   #3
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Well, if you look at youtube, you will see plenty of bump fire vids with no alteration or special stock at all.
At some point, the anti gun folks will ban weapons which can be bump fired...in other words, any semiauto.
I've seen a video of a Beretta 92FS being bumpfired.
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Old October 4, 2017, 04:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipspyder
I'm an avid hunter and firearm advocate and don't have a problem with this.
Until you consider that the phrase...
Quote:
...functions to increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle...
...could be interpreted to include things like installing a lightened hammer or a trigger kit, replacing a worn recoil buffer or spring, or even doing a good "fluff and buff" internal parts polishing.

The language in the bill is dangerously ambiguous. However...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts
On the bright side, I'd say the chances of that bill exiting the Senate Judiciary Committee are less than me winning the next Powerball drawing.
Yup—for the above reasons.

IMHO this bill is DOA as written but the problem comes when it's edited into something less vague.
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Old October 4, 2017, 04:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Beretta 92FS being bumpfired.
____________
Yup, I’ve done it, in fact, with one hand. I discovered on accident. Early smartphone days, I was attempting to video with one hand and shoot with the other. It was a safe place, a small canyon like ravine of dirt walls on private property. I had a looser than normal grip and it bump fired. I did it a couple of more times for giggles and that’s all.
Bump fired a rifle one session just to try it.

I could care less about a bump stock, but we’ve got enough restrictions.
Many people out there think the government assigns rights and that’s wrong.
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Old October 4, 2017, 05:25 PM   #6
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I'm an avid hunter and firearm advocate and don't have a problem with this. We have to draw the line somewhere.
So as a firearms advocate, you thought there was no line anywhere and that this is a good place to start???????

The line is already drawn. Why are you so willing to give up more?
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Old October 4, 2017, 05:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
I'm an avid hunter and firearm advocate and don't have a problem with this.
I have a huge problem with it.

I want a solution to the problem of these episodes of mass violence, not just more crap about shifting the blame to an inanimate object.

Focusing on guns does nothing to address the problem.

It sweeps it under the rug until the next bout, when the elected idiots squawk again how more laws are needed - which of course do nothing.

Whatever "they" have been doing up until now is obviously not working.
Only the mentally ill believe a different result can be obtained if the same measures are applied time after time.

Had every single gun disappeared by magic on Sunday, this latest piece of human garbage would have had no trouble at all driving a pickup truck through the middle of that crowd of 20,000.
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Old October 4, 2017, 05:57 PM   #8
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We all know that banning or placing bumpfire stocks on the NFA won't do anything to reduce violence. I'm going to write my Congressman and Senators and tell them I oppose regulating bumpfire stocks unless we get something in exchange. Bumpfire stocks go on the NFA and suppressors come off would be ok for me. I'd like to see the SHARE act attached to any regulation of bumpfire stocks.
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:02 PM   #9
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I'm an avid hunter and firearm advocate and don't have a problem with this.
As it stands right now we don't ( as the public ) know enough on exactly what happened to already be ready to give up some rights . Agreeing to new restrictions with out knowing if any new restriction would have helped seems a little backwards thinking . There is no need to start proposing new laws until we know which if any have failed .

The first thing to ask is , were the current laws inadequate to prevent this from happening or were they inadequately enforced allowing this to happen .

We then can move to is there anything in the current laws that can be helped to be implemented better to prevent this from happening again .

Finally if all of that is not helpful in preventing this type of thing we can talk about adding additional restrictions . How ever in that conversation and or proposals . There MUST be a finding that not only all are current laws were inadequate that new restriction will have prevented this shooting .

There is no reason to give ground to something that would not have prevented this shooting . Like universal background checks . As we know it now . The shooter would have past a background check and if news reports are accurate , he in fact did the few months leading up to the shooting .

I also agree the devils in the details and until I see the final wording of any anti bump fire bill I will not be in support of one .

Quote:
or any part, combination of parts, component, device, attachment, or accessory that is designed or functions to accelerate the rate of fire of a semi-automatic rifle but not convert the semiautomatic rifle into a machinegun.
The bold section would have to be removed at minimum and maybe read( to allow the firearm to effectively work as a fully automatic rifle )
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Last edited by Metal god; October 4, 2017 at 06:21 PM.
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by zipspyder View Post
I'm an avid hunter and firearm advocate and don't have a problem with this. We have to draw the line somewhere. Of course those who have stamps for full auto weapons should be grandfathered in. What problems do you have with people doing illegal stuff or soon to be too their semi auto weapons? I haven't read the pdf yet so maybe I'm off on my thinking though. Will read later.

[...]
Uh, this prospective bill has nothing to do with legitimate NFA Full auto weapons.....
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:23 PM   #11
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipspyder
What problems do you have with people doing illegal stuff or soon to be too their semi auto weapons?
Having actually used a bumpstock, I think people are confusing rate of fire with lethality. Even actual military full auto has limited applications, full auto putting out a random rate of fire between 400-600rpm into a 10' x 10' beaten zone at 100m is kind of dubious utility in my mind. But even if we assume that this is a valid threat everywhere you cram 20,000 people into two acres, there are still serious problems.

As carguychris pointed out, that language is super vague. "Anything that by design or function increases the rate of fire...". That covers lightweight bolts designed to reduce reciprocating mass, match triggers, triggers with shorter resets, lighter buffers, adjustable gas ports, etc. Heck, any kind of gas-operated semi-auto will gradually increase its cyclic rate just due to erosion at the gas port.

Aside from being a regulatory nightmare, it will be administered by the same agency that just a few years back tried to interpret the tiny steel penetrator in M855 as "armor-piercing" and a "bullet core" - thus prohibiting an ammo that was widely used recreationally for the past 30 years.

Giving that kindof vague language to Feinstein is just a slow death of the Second instead of a quick one.

If they were really concerned about the proliferation of bumpstocks, open up the registry. That would kill off bumpstocks quickly and they'd have every single replacement registered.
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:29 PM   #12
Stroge
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ive had one of those $99 bumpfire stocks for a good while and its been great fun at the range. I was able to dump 30 rounds in 3 seconds. Works out to 600 RPM. I even got my friend on when I got mine, his family is rabidly anti gun and hates him for even having an AR-15, if they only knew of his bump fire stock

I knew some joker would use one of these sooner or later.... now you cant even get on bump fire systems site....

My only real worry is the ATF sending letters to owners of these devices demanding they be returned or some such. Sorry, but its not happening, not in a million years.

Last edited by Evan Thomas; October 5, 2017 at 09:49 AM. Reason: removed response to deleted post.
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:34 PM   #13
JoeSixpack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts View Post
Anything that is "designed or functions to increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle" is banned forever. Say goodbye to your belt loops boys!

On the bright side, I'd say the chances of that bill exiting the Senate Judiciary Committee are less than me winning the next Powerball drawing.
I downloaded but did not read the bill.
However based on that phrase I guess they'll be cutting our fingers off.. you don't need a bump stock to bump fire.

But it sounds like it will be so far reaching how will they decide what the correct cycle rate of a semi automatic is?
Some people can fire faster than others, what about competition shooters with race guns? what about things like lightened bolt carriers?

What If I built the gun from a reciver and there for no known cycle rate can be calculated.. I put a bump stock on it on first build.. that's the normal cycle rate for this gun

They said on the news this would also ban things like trigger cranks.. will there be exceptions carved out for gatling gun replica's? Those are operated via crank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipspyder View Post
I'm an avid hunter and firearm advocate and don't have a problem with this. [...]
As a avid collector of all evil death inflicting weapons and as someone who does not hunt I don't care about your hunting shotgun, your bolt action hunting rifle, or your "right to hunt"

Fracture complete, Now what?
There may come a time you'll look to your left and find you stand alone.
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:41 PM   #14
Stroge
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Originally Posted by JoeSixpack View Post


As a avid collector of all evil death inflicting weapons and as someone who does not hunt I don't care about your hunting shotgun, your bolt action hunting rifle, or your "right to hunt"

Fracture complete, Now what?
There may come a time you'll look to your left and find you stand alone.
I was thinking the same thing. Screw elmer fudd, when no ones left but him and his hunting rifles and they come for things he likes..... who will speak up?
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:41 PM   #15
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Bad idea gone wrong

Quote:
I knew some joker would use one of these sooner or later.... now you can't even get on bump fire systems site....
Months before this bill come up for review, the company that makes these, will be sued, out of existence and when you see how they operate, it's only a matter of time. Sad that it took 59 lives and one crazy person, to put an end to this device. .....

Be Safe ???
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:44 PM   #16
Stroge
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Originally Posted by Pahoo View Post
Months before this bill come up for review, the company that makes these, will be sued, out of existence and when you see how they operate, it's only a matter of time. Sad that it took 59 lives and one crazy person, to put an end to this device. .....

Be Safe ???
Well, the thing is, bump firing is not anything new.

Back in 2012 I got my First AR-15 and at the range I used my belt loop and managed to bump fire it.

If someone is dead set on making a bump fire apparatus, they can easily do so whether or not they are "banned".

The guy was a millionaire for christ sake, clearly would have had the means to make his own.

So now we see the classic knee jerk reaction as a result and a perfectly acceptable niche use device (range toy) gets crucified.

Yes, I can see it now, the look of pure greed on the lawyers faces when they realize they will sue the two prominent manufactures of these devices into oblivion. These two companies hardly have the assets to satisfy any likely judgment, so whats the point really?
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:47 PM   #17
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I'm have no problem with taking "bump fire" off the general market.
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:50 PM   #18
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I'm have no problem with taking "bump fire" off the general market.
I have no problem with hunting being banned (except for pest control) but you don't see me singing that song.
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
I'm have no problem with taking "bump fire" off the general market.
Me either but that's not how the bill reads .
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If you have some time IMO this is worth a listen/watch but it takes a few minutes to really get going .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ&t=3265s or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY
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Old October 4, 2017, 06:59 PM   #20
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Guys who have no problem with a ban, do you actually believe said ban would reduce crime, or do you simply find it acceptable for the government to ban things just because they feel like it?
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Old October 4, 2017, 07:16 PM   #21
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Looks like she’s trying to ban my left pointer finger, which when placed on top of my right trigger finger increases the rate of fire.

I hope she doesn’t want to cut it off.
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Old October 4, 2017, 07:16 PM   #22
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If the bill needs to be written to be more specific to satisfy some of you so be it. I see the usual not one ounce of give and take.

Apparently some line has already been drawn? What line would that be by the way?

No solutions given just don't take out crap away. Nobody said anything about not trying other avenues such as stricter vetting process or more help towards mental health screening but that's not what this thread is about is it.

Gosh forbid they take away your bump stocks. We all know there will be loopholes for people to use anyway but maybe that will satisfy the political morons.

If there is no give or take from both sides then more than likely when something changes (and it will eventually) it may be way more drastic than compromising earlier. And don't give me that 2nd amendment stuff unless you can show be where it's written though shall have a right to bump stocks.

I'm sure this will trigger some of you.
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Old October 4, 2017, 07:17 PM   #23
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Crazy people will always do crazy things.

Quote:
Guys who have no problem with a ban, do you actually believe said ban would reduce crime, or do you simply find it acceptable for the government to ban things just because they feel like it?
Oh course and not in the least. If there is one clear statement that should be noted, is that there is no amount of gun control laws that will ever stop anyone that wants to kill folks. This guy was crazy and we are always looking for sensible answers that just don't exist. The biggest problem is that the devil is "always" in the details. .....

Be Safe !!!
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Old October 4, 2017, 07:20 PM   #24
Metal god
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Quote:
do you actually believe said ban would reduce crime,
No but this isn't about reducing crime . The full auto restrictions are well established and seem to have survived constitutional muster . So banning basically the same thing that is already highly restricted and has become excepted to be so . seems to me to be a none issue .

I just heard a news reporter say the last administration legalized the bump fire stock . I believe that is inaccurate . What the BATF said was the current design of the bump fire stock was not breaking any laws , there's a difference . The first stocks that were designed actually had a spring in them pushing the gun forward . The spring was deemed a mechanical device that aided in the speed the trigger could be pulled . They said no way that past muster . The company then took the spring out and it now was only manipulated by the shooter only and was now legal because the shooter them selves controlled the rate of fire .
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If you have some time IMO this is worth a listen/watch but it takes a few minutes to really get going .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ&t=3265s or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY

Last edited by Metal god; October 4, 2017 at 07:33 PM.
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Old October 4, 2017, 07:25 PM   #25
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Knew proposals like Feinstein were gonna happen before long. This is propbably the first of many and not as inane or severe as some to come. Politicians cannot let a tragedy pass without attempting to use it for political gain. Stand by for more.
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