Diagnosing mangled cases from a 1911

Steve in Allentown, · May 12, 2020, 05:31 PM

Recently a fellow took his Dan Wesson Pointman PM2 to the range to have some fun. What he got instead was mangled brass and constant jamming. He posted a couple of pictures showing the cases.

I looked at the pics and immediately diagnosed an extractor that was losing control of the empty cases during recoil causing them to not eject. The empty cases would then sit on top of the next round in the magazine as it was being fed. The empty cases would then get slammed into the barrel hood. I've personally experienced this specific malfunction in the past so was confident in my diagnosis.

Eventually the fellow set about removing the extractor from the slide and discovered the firing pin stop had suffered a catastrophic failure. While my initial diagnosis was technically correct, it wasn't due to a bad extractor as you can see in the picture below. The broken firing pin stop allowed the extractor to clock which caused it lose control of the case.

I don't think I've ever seen a firing pin stop fail like this one.

**4V50 Gary** · May 12, 2020, 07:42 PM

MIM?

ms6852 · May 12, 2020, 09:11 PM

It looks like improper heat tempering of the steel.

Scorch · May 13, 2020, 12:27 AM

It looks like an old break.

GE-Minigun · May 14, 2020, 03:17 PM

Bad casting...MIM

**4V50 Gary** · May 16, 2020, 01:04 PM

BTW, the US Army tried plastic firing pin stops. They hoped for 5,000 rounds between failure. It didn't work back then (1940s).

Second, what springs and cartridges? It could also be under-function. Not enough energy to push the slide back sufficiently for full ejection. Then the slide goes forward and pushes the spent case into the barrel (but not the bore).

Steve in Allentown, · May 16, 2020, 04:07 PM

4V50 Gary, the owner fit a new firing pin stop and the problem was resolved. He'd been shooting 230gr FMJ factory ammo with a 23lb mainspring and a 16lb recoil spring out of this 5" 1911.

May 12, 2020, 05:31 PM	#1
Steve in Allentown, Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 182	Diagnosing mangled cases from a 1911 Recently a fellow took his Dan Wesson Pointman PM2 to the range to have some fun. What he got instead was mangled brass and constant jamming. He posted a couple of pictures showing the cases. I looked at the pics and immediately diagnosed an extractor that was losing control of the empty cases during recoil causing them to not eject. The empty cases would then sit on top of the next round in the magazine as it was being fed. The empty cases would then get slammed into the barrel hood. I've personally experienced this specific malfunction in the past so was confident in my diagnosis. Eventually the fellow set about removing the extractor from the slide and discovered the firing pin stop had suffered a catastrophic failure. While my initial diagnosis was technically correct, it wasn't due to a bad extractor as you can see in the picture below. The broken firing pin stop allowed the extractor to clock which caused it lose control of the case. I don't think I've ever seen a firing pin stop fail like this one.

May 12, 2020, 07:42 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,647	MIM? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 12, 2020, 09:11 PM	#3
ms6852 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 1,394	It looks like improper heat tempering of the steel. __________________ ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. ONE IS JESUS CHRIST FOR YOUR SOUL AND THE OTHER IS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER FOR YOUR FREEDOM.

May 13, 2020, 12:27 AM	#4
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,192	It looks like an old break. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

May 16, 2020, 01:04 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,647	BTW, the US Army tried plastic firing pin stops. They hoped for 5,000 rounds between failure. It didn't work back then (1940s). Second, what springs and cartridges? It could also be under-function. Not enough energy to push the slide back sufficiently for full ejection. Then the slide goes forward and pushes the spent case into the barrel (but not the bore). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 14, 2020, 03:17 PM	#5
GE-Minigun Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Posts: 235	Bad casting...MIM

May 16, 2020, 04:07 PM	#7
Steve in Allentown, Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 182	4V50 Gary, the owner fit a new firing pin stop and the problem was resolved. He'd been shooting 230gr FMJ factory ammo with a 23lb mainspring and a 16lb recoil spring out of this 5" 1911.

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