Trigger return spring

VintageFan · October 21, 2019, 02:41 AM

Hi all!

Does anyone have a tip what could be used as an alternative to a old v-shaped trigger return spring? It's the small v-shaped spring under the cylinder on the frame of an old belgian bulldog revolver.

One possibility is to make one, but I have no experience on that, so I was wondering is there anything modern that could be modified and used instead?

I see that wolff makes a kit that has somewhat similar looking v-springs, those could be modified to work, but is there any similar springs on everyday items or hardware store that would work?

Thanks in advance!

T. O'Heir · October 21, 2019, 01:10 PM

"...to make one..." Easier said than done. Making springs requires proper spring steel and the equipment to heat treat it.
Give Gunparts a call. They sometimes have stuff they don't put on their site.
I'm wondering if a No. 4 Lee-Enfield extractor spring is close in size.
1,024 pixels is too big.

VintageFan · October 21, 2019, 01:23 PM

I meant with making one that I could modify a spring that has close resemblance to that spring I'm missing. Maybe a poor choice of words.

That lee-enfield extractor spring has a somewhat similar shape to the trigger reset spring. I need to get the dimension. I also saw something similar at gun parts corp., but I think it was out of stock and can't even find it now.

Bill DeShivs · October 21, 2019, 04:09 PM

If you have all of the broken spring, I can make you one.

VintageFan · October 23, 2019, 07:27 AM

Thanks but it's missing altogether.

T. O'Heir · October 23, 2019, 01:33 PM

Kind of suspect an Enfield extractor spring would be too small anyway.
A Belgian Bulldog revolver is also known as a British Bulldog. They were made by everybody and his brother plus all their cousins. Not that it helps. Gunparts is sold out of springs for 'em.
I'm not 100% convinced it'd be worth spending the money to fix one of 'em either. They're BP cartridge revolvers for starters. However, an Enfield sear spring is the same general shape too.
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/486480A

Jim Watson · October 23, 2019, 10:39 PM

Heard of them being made out of blue steel office binder clamps.

VintageFan · October 24, 2019, 05:07 AM

Thanks all for answers!

Yes T O'heir you are probably right that it is not worth to use lot of money on them, but it is worth gaining some diy gunsmithing experience. Yes those were made by hundreds of homeshops and bigger manufactures and are extremely common in europe, but still I find those as an interesting curio small and smaller pocket guns.

Jim Watson: Thanks for the tip, I need to get one and try it out.

VintageFan · October 24, 2019, 09:29 AM

I made one to test out of binder clamp, but it is not strong enough.

I could cannibalize one out of other belgian bulldog, it would fit with modification, but then I would have to make a new one to that eventually. At least then I would have a blueprint for it.

But I think that binder spring would work fine for a broken hand spring I need to make.

T. O'Heir · October 24, 2019, 01:20 PM

"...it is not strong enough..." Try a bigger binder clamp. They're not all the same. (Never would have even thought about office supplies for gun parts. Kind of brilliant.)
Plan 'B' would be to roam around a good hardware store looking for something you can adapt. Or a cheap tool you can disassemble. Something with a flat spring. Or a saw blade you can cut and bend. They're high quality steel and might do.
"...out of other Belgian Bulldog..." That's the suggested method and source of parts on most forums. One guy thought he could get a junker for 3 or 4 bucks. Didn't catch the date of the post or what forum.

**Unclenick** · October 24, 2019, 01:44 PM

The binder clamp is a slick trick. I'm not too proud to say I am going to steal that idea at some point (or should I say spring to "steel" that idea).

If you have access to a shop with spring steel stock, you can carve it out with a Dremel cut-off wheel and get it red hot with a torch and air cool it to soften it for forming and filing to shape. Afterward, get it red hot again and quench it in water (if it breaks during this process, you may have to quench in oil). Then an old trick used by muzzle-loader makers is to dip it in 10W or 20W motor oil and light the oil with a match and just let it burn out at its own pace in the air. This draws the temper down to spring temper, but it is a crude process and you might have to go through it several times to get a good result. The other method is to polish the metal white and torch heat it until it just turns blue, then quench it again. That also may take several tries until you get used to doing it.

VintageFan · October 24, 2019, 01:56 PM

I'll have to see what I can find, making that was relatively easy, I cut it with dremel cut-off wheel, just minding not to get it too hot, then grinded it to shape with dremel grinding stone-wheel. I was suprised how strong the steel was, took a lot longer to cut it than i anticipated.

Jim Watson · October 24, 2019, 05:20 PM

Doubled?

VintageFan · October 25, 2019, 12:26 AM

Yes, I thought about that too. Could it help?

**Unclenick** · October 25, 2019, 08:03 AM

Sure. That's the same principle as a leaf spring stack in a car's suspension. The trick will be making sure the inner member of the pair remains captive.

Jim Watson · October 25, 2019, 09:51 AM

J.B. Wood's book on gunsmithing shows a replacement for the long springy cylinder stop in a S&W topbreak double action. That seems the weak point in a generally rather delicate gun; the Smith equivalent of the Colt Lightning.
He just took heavy piano wire, doubled it, and bent it into the general shape of the part.

VintageFan · October 26, 2019, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Sure. That's the same principle as a leaf spring stack in a car's suspension. The trick will be making sure the inner member of the pair remains captive.

Glued together?

VintageFan · October 26, 2019, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

J.B. Wood's book on gunsmithing shows a replacement for the long springy cylinder stop in a S&W topbreak double action. That seems the weak point in a generally rather delicate gun; the Smith equivalent of the Colt Lightning.

He just took heavy piano wire, doubled it, and bent it into the general shape of the part.

You are talking about Gunsmithing, the tricks of the trade? Which page starting from?

Jim Watson · October 26, 2019, 09:06 AM

Beats me, I no longer have the book, one of the many casualties of the Incident when my house burned.

Remington74 · October 26, 2019, 05:55 PM

^ Sorry about that.

VintageFan · October 27, 2019, 08:24 AM

Sorry to hear that.

I ordered mine recently from amazon for $10 with shipping in good condition.

tangolima · October 27, 2019, 09:54 AM

Making spring is not trivial, but not prohibitively hard either. I have done that multiple times with success after climbing the learning curve. It is basically as described by unclenick. A few things to added.

Flat spring stocks of different thickness are available online. I bought a assortment set from Amazon small part, if I remember correctly.

Anneal, bend to shape, quench to harden, and draw back to temper. The last step is the tricky part that requires experience. I polish the part to white. Flame it till it turns between blue and straw in color. No need to quench.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

**4V50 Gary** · October 27, 2019, 10:58 PM

Take summer Bench Metal at TSJC NRA Summer School. They'll teach you to make a V spring.

BTW, after bending and filing/sanding, we annealed in a lead pot for 1/2 hour. Forgot the temperature (it's in my notes at home). The test was to place the spring in a vise and close it all the way. When you opened the vise, it'd better not "ping" which would be it breaking.

tangolima · October 28, 2019, 03:46 PM

For annealing, I just heat the spring steel stock to cherry red, and let it air cool. I may need to repeat it a few times, or I could shove the hot steel in sand box (play sand in a coffee can). After that the steel should behave like mild steel.

The annealing should be done before, not after, bending, or the steel is going to put up a hell of a fight.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

VintageFan · October 29, 2019, 04:08 AM

Found quite similar looking spring steel, well it looks same thickness and has 90 degree angle on it, so it probably would be easy to modify. Maybe.

It is replacement spring for old door locks.

October 21, 2019, 02:41 AM	#1
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	Trigger return spring Hi all! Does anyone have a tip what could be used as an alternative to a old v-shaped trigger return spring? It's the small v-shaped spring under the cylinder on the frame of an old belgian bulldog revolver. One possibility is to make one, but I have no experience on that, so I was wondering is there anything modern that could be modified and used instead? I see that wolff makes a kit that has somewhat similar looking v-springs, those could be modified to work, but is there any similar springs on everyday items or hardware store that would work? Thanks in advance!

October 21, 2019, 01:10 PM	#2
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...to make one..." Easier said than done. Making springs requires proper spring steel and the equipment to heat treat it. Give Gunparts a call. They sometimes have stuff they don't put on their site. I'm wondering if a No. 4 Lee-Enfield extractor spring is close in size. 1,024 pixels is too big. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 21, 2019, 04:09 PM	#4
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	If you have all of the broken spring, I can make you one. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 23, 2019, 01:33 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Kind of suspect an Enfield extractor spring would be too small anyway. A Belgian Bulldog revolver is also known as a British Bulldog. They were made by everybody and his brother plus all their cousins. Not that it helps. Gunparts is sold out of springs for 'em. I'm not 100% convinced it'd be worth spending the money to fix one of 'em either. They're BP cartridge revolvers for starters. However, an Enfield sear spring is the same general shape too. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/486480A __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 24, 2019, 01:20 PM	#10
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...it is not strong enough..." Try a bigger binder clamp. They're not all the same. (Never would have even thought about office supplies for gun parts. Kind of brilliant.) Plan 'B' would be to roam around a good hardware store looking for something you can adapt. Or a cheap tool you can disassemble. Something with a flat spring. Or a saw blade you can cut and bend. They're high quality steel and might do. "...out of other Belgian Bulldog..." That's the suggested method and source of parts on most forums. One guy thought he could get a junker for 3 or 4 bucks. Didn't catch the date of the post or what forum. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 21, 2019, 01:23 PM	#3
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	I meant with making one that I could modify a spring that has close resemblance to that spring I'm missing. Maybe a poor choice of words. That lee-enfield extractor spring has a somewhat similar shape to the trigger reset spring. I need to get the dimension. I also saw something similar at gun parts corp., but I think it was out of stock and can't even find it now.

October 23, 2019, 07:27 AM	#5
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	Thanks but it's missing altogether.

October 23, 2019, 10:39 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Heard of them being made out of blue steel office binder clamps.

October 24, 2019, 05:07 AM	#8
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	Thanks all for answers! Yes T O'heir you are probably right that it is not worth to use lot of money on them, but it is worth gaining some diy gunsmithing experience. Yes those were made by hundreds of homeshops and bigger manufactures and are extremely common in europe, but still I find those as an interesting curio small and smaller pocket guns. Jim Watson: Thanks for the tip, I need to get one and try it out.

October 24, 2019, 09:29 AM	#9
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	I made one to test out of binder clamp, but it is not strong enough. I could cannibalize one out of other belgian bulldog, it would fit with modification, but then I would have to make a new one to that eventually. At least then I would have a blueprint for it. But I think that binder spring would work fine for a broken hand spring I need to make.

October 24, 2019, 01:44 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The binder clamp is a slick trick. I'm not too proud to say I am going to steal that idea at some point (or should I say spring to "steel" that idea). If you have access to a shop with spring steel stock, you can carve it out with a Dremel cut-off wheel and get it red hot with a torch and air cool it to soften it for forming and filing to shape. Afterward, get it red hot again and quench it in water (if it breaks during this process, you may have to quench in oil). Then an old trick used by muzzle-loader makers is to dip it in 10W or 20W motor oil and light the oil with a match and just let it burn out at its own pace in the air. This draws the temper down to spring temper, but it is a crude process and you might have to go through it several times to get a good result. The other method is to polish the metal white and torch heat it until it just turns blue, then quench it again. That also may take several tries until you get used to doing it. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 24, 2019, 01:56 PM	#12
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	I'll have to see what I can find, making that was relatively easy, I cut it with dremel cut-off wheel, just minding not to get it too hot, then grinded it to shape with dremel grinding stone-wheel. I was suprised how strong the steel was, took a lot longer to cut it than i anticipated.

October 24, 2019, 05:20 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Doubled?

October 25, 2019, 12:26 AM	#14
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	Yes, I thought about that too. Could it help?

October 25, 2019, 08:03 AM	#15
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Sure. That's the same principle as a leaf spring stack in a car's suspension. The trick will be making sure the inner member of the pair remains captive. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 25, 2019, 09:51 AM	#16
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	J.B. Wood's book on gunsmithing shows a replacement for the long springy cylinder stop in a S&W topbreak double action. That seems the weak point in a generally rather delicate gun; the Smith equivalent of the Colt Lightning. He just took heavy piano wire, doubled it, and bent it into the general shape of the part.

October 26, 2019, 09:06 AM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Beats me, I no longer have the book, one of the many casualties of the Incident when my house burned.

October 26, 2019, 05:55 PM	#20
Remington74 Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2012 Location: Carthage, NY Posts: 231	^ Sorry about that.

October 27, 2019, 08:24 AM	#21
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	Sorry to hear that. I ordered mine recently from amazon for $10 with shipping in good condition.

October 27, 2019, 09:54 AM	#22
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,827	Making spring is not trivial, but not prohibitively hard either. I have done that multiple times with success after climbing the learning curve. It is basically as described by unclenick. A few things to added. Flat spring stocks of different thickness are available online. I bought a assortment set from Amazon small part, if I remember correctly. Anneal, bend to shape, quench to harden, and draw back to temper. The last step is the tricky part that requires experience. I polish the part to white. Flame it till it turns between blue and straw in color. No need to quench. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

October 27, 2019, 10:58 PM	#23
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Take summer Bench Metal at TSJC NRA Summer School. They'll teach you to make a V spring. BTW, after bending and filing/sanding, we annealed in a lead pot for 1/2 hour. Forgot the temperature (it's in my notes at home). The test was to place the spring in a vise and close it all the way. When you opened the vise, it'd better not "ping" which would be it breaking. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 28, 2019, 03:46 PM	#24
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,827	For annealing, I just heat the spring steel stock to cherry red, and let it air cool. I may need to repeat it a few times, or I could shove the hot steel in sand box (play sand in a coffee can). After that the steel should behave like mild steel. The annealing should be done before, not after, bending, or the steel is going to put up a hell of a fight. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk Last edited by tangolima; October 28, 2019 at 03:55 PM.

October 29, 2019, 04:08 AM	#25
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	Found quite similar looking spring steel, well it looks same thickness and has 90 degree angle on it, so it probably would be easy to modify. Maybe. It is replacement spring for old door locks.