carrying the percussion revolver

[swathdiver]

Thanks for the photo Bishop Creek, that's really cool!

[rodwhaincamo]

I'm one of those who feels there's nothing finer than a 1911, which would typically only give you a 6 rd magazine...

[Hawg]

I'm one of those who feels there's nothing finer than a 1911, which would typically only give you a 6 rd magazine.

7 plus one chambered which gives you 8, altho they do make reliable 8 round flush mount mags now which would give you 9 rounds with one chambered.

[drobs]

Hey I could be wrong, however, I can tell when I ring my gong with a Hornady .454 ball and 30gr of fffg that it's a weak round coming out of my 44 Colts & Remington. It barely makes ding.

The sound is completely different than my 9mm, 38spl, 45 acp, or 357 mag.

That being said, where y'all finding conicals, I feel like I've looked everywhere. No one sells em. Is it a cast yer own voodoo boollit thing?

I also own a 357mag Uberti Hombre, that I do like. However, I wont let romantic notions of the old west keep me from carrying and depending modern firearms backed up by jacketed hollow points.

When ever someone says that they have reliability problems with a semi-auto, I instantly think 1911. Step into the modern world where guns function reliably out of the box, no break-in required, no Wilson, blah, blah, blah mags required.

[brazosdave]

really, I've had berettas and smiths jam on me? I just can't get excited enough to shoot enough to be proficient with something that reminds me of an electric stapler. I think i'll stick with guns I shoot on a daily basis. But that's just me. P.S. Try 35 grains.

[44 Dave]

How big of a lead splatter on the gong compared to those hard lead or jacketed slugs. the sound may be softer partial due to the slug.

[deerslayer303]

The sound is completely different than my 9mm, 38spl, 45 acp, or 357 mag.

Because the round ball out of your cap and ball revolvers is dead soft pure lead. The sound it makes hitting steel isn't really definitive proof of a round ball's effectiveness in a self defense situation, is it?

[AKexpat]

Again, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I don't carry, and I don't really care what most people decide to carry because most people will never be involved in violent crime anyway. I just think most of this is driven by nostalgia and not practicality. To paraphrase Nathan Bedford Forrest, "Get there the firstest with the mostest". A modern semi-automatic handgun is going to give you 15-20 rounds of reliable, quickly reloadable ammunition that goes a long way to bringing "the mostest".

Steve

I'm a 1911 .45 7-shot mag guy using old-style Federal HydraShok 230 gr ammo. I have 2 extra 7-shot mags that run just fine.

In light of the situations evolving these days, even if an HD firefight would not require more than one mag, insurance is a fine thing.

Unless one has more than one loaded 1851/1860/Dragoon/et al, at hand, one has no reloads after the first pistol is expended. And a spare 1911 mag or two are much easier to carry than a second or third BP pistol.

I have to give some respect to those who feel that a single (or 2) BP six-shot revolvers will be enough to withstand a home invasion. I feel that is somewhat an exercise in futility, better than a knife or a hammer, but I'm not living with them in their locality, wherever that may be.

I live in the boontoolies wherein a 911 call to LE results in a response 30+ minutes away, if then. I won't take any chances relying upon my C&B revolvers.

I guess you guys are tougher than I am and have a bit more 19th century bravado.

I'll take my chances with a fairly modern pistol with self-contained large caliber cartridges and, if needed, extra mags.

[Hawg]

When it comes to home defense a short barreled 12 gauge pump is the ticket.

[Model12Win]

All you young whipper shnappers which yer fancy-shmanzy "automatic belt pistols", why! Them's just a fad gun's what them is!

News flash guys. You aren't a cowboy out ridin' the reigns on the trail in "Injun country". You're not a desperado, or a Civil War cavalrymen riding his trusty stede into the fray.

You're just a guy. Time to grow up and join the 21st century with the rest of us.

[swathdiver]

30 grains behind a round ball Drebs is plinking ammo. The guns come alive when you up it to 35 and in my case, they are more accurate too. In addition, it does matter which powder you're using too, Swiss and Olde Eynsford feed my sixguns.

As for the conicals, yes, I cast my own with my Kaido mold. I can get 30 grains of FFF Olde Eynsford or use 24 grains of FFFF Swiss which is 1/10 of bullet weight, same ratio they used with Hazard's Pistol Powder back during the War of Northern Aggression.

Quit trying to compare your modern popguns to the black powder .44, there's no comparison, save for the .45 ACP.

[Blindstitch]

I wouldn't ever want to carry a bp pistol as my carry gun but it could be a pretty good advantage for one reason. I have a cva optima v2 muzzleloader that blows a 8 foot thick wall of cloud when shot. I believe it would give you enough time to get to safety while the bad guy is trying to figure out what went one. If they're shot even better but then you can get out your real carry gun and finish things.

[44 Dave]

I am with Hawg, living in the toolies, when things go bump in the night the 12 gauge coach gun is the gun of choice along with my shell belt for reloads. The wheel gun is for a walk in the woods.
Not far from here a farmer had 14 sheep killed by wolves.

[brazosdave]

Home invasion is different than carry. Like Hawg, there is a 12 gauge Winchester pump next to my bed. However, that being said, when I am out in the woods wearing my Remington, and I need to run to town to tractor supply or Walmart, I damn sure ain't gonna gear up like I was going on patrol back in Iraq again. I'm gonna wear the gun I have on. I have to admit, where I live is not like L.A. or Chicago, but unless you intend on conducting an assault, whatever gun you happen to have with you will probably be just fine.

And yes, we really are tougher than you, man, lol!

[Hawg]

You're just a guy. Time to grow up and join the 21st century with the rest of us.

Growing old isn't an option, growing up is.

[rodwhaincamo]

For carry a compact model is usually used (my favorite was the Safari Arms Enforcer with a 4" barrel and 6 shot mag), and so the magazine usually holds just 6.

Another reason for the difference in sound on the gong is likely the weight of the projectile in comparison.

30 grns of energetic powder, which is what my Remington NMA does best with, likely gives standard .45 ACP performance with my 170 and 195 grn bullets judging by chronographed results I've seen. I'm figuring I'm getting 350-400 ft/lbs.

Kaido's bullets (Lee customizing their 255 grn .45 Colt bullet for him), along with a couple of people with other molds (mostly custom), are the only way to buy bullets. Mine are custom from Accurate Molds.

[rodwhaincamo]

Very rarely does a home invasion include people willing to have a protracted shootout. Once the bullets begin to fly they are making a B line for an exit. That is as long as you haven't made an enemy out of your local gang members, owe the mafia, sell drugs, or have a cartel or mobster concerned about you.

[brazosdave]

Starting this thread evolved into what I typically see with gun people. Everyone is convinced their own way is best. I know we all have strong opinions, but let's face it: none of us is going to change each others mind, no much how much anecdotal, chonographical, or personal evidence we present. a simple question of "does anybody carry percussion revolvers" turned into a discourse on the relative merits of different ignition systems, operational systems, and projectiles. I think we all have merit in what we believe, and we should probably spend more time trying to keep the anti'gunners from taking our rights, then arguing about hypothetical what if situations. But I have enjoyed talking to and hearing from all of you. If I came off as surly to anyone, it was not personal, just a result of healthy discourse.

[JohnKSa]

What is the old adage, 2 seconds, 2 shots, 2 feet!

I believe it's the Rule of 3. That is, 3 shots, 3 seconds and 3 yards.

Since everyone here is still posting, I assume that their arms have been sufficient to keep them alive.

This is an EXTREMELY poor argument.

Let's say I start a thread on using nail clippers for self-defense against lions and the thread degenerates into an argument with some pointing out that nail clippers are a bad choice for defense against lions and some supporting my choice. Would it make sense for me to point out that since there were people supporting my choice and none of them had been killed by lions my choice must be just fine?

Of course not. The fact that they're alive has far more to do with the fact that they haven't had to use their nail clippers against 400lb felines than it does to do with the suitability of nail clippers for lion defense.

I think we all have merit in what we believe...

That's not how it works. In real life, strong opinions and beliefs don't change the facts. Even if EVERYONE really likes something or strongly believes something, it won't make it true if it's not. It won't give it more merit than it already has. It won't make a tool better for a job than it really is. It won't make a gun more or less suitable for self-defense than it really is.

...we should probably spend more time trying to keep the anti'gunners from taking our rights...

This is a red herring. No one on this thread is trying to take anyone's rights nor is this thread likely to divert anyone from their normal level of pro-gun activities.

Trying to bring gun rights into this as if it changes the facts about the suitability of an ignition system that became obsolete in the late 1800s for self-defense is not productive. It's simply a way to deflect the discussion away from the pertinent facts.

Can a percussion cap revolver work as a self-defense tool? Sure it can. It was used for quite some time before the self-contained metallic cartridge displaced it. Same could be said of bows and arrows and spears. They worked just fine, but they were supplanted by superior systems just as blackpowder and percussion cap ignition has been supplanted by modern propellants and self-contained metallic cartridges.

A person armed with a percussion cap revolver is certainly armed and capable of self-defense, but that doesn't mean they're as capable as they could be.

Now, that could be said of virtually anyone, given that we all draw the line somewhere. So where does it make sense to draw the line? It depends on the circumstances. Different people will draw it different places based on what they know about, what they believe, how they are restricted, etc. But the fact that different people make different choices doesn't mean that they are all equally capable of defending themselves.

I have a friend who fences for sport and hobby and uses a saber as a home defense weapon because he's comfortable with his saber but not with a gun. That's his choice and maybe it makes sense for him given his skills and beliefs. But none of that changes the fact that if he's faced with armed attackers beyond the reach of his saber, he's going to get shot a lot and won't be able to do anything at all to defend himself.

I don't try to talk him out of his choice, but I also wouldn't stand by and let him claim that he's just as capable with his saber as someone with equal training would be with a gun; because he's not. There's are reasons people stopped using swords for self-defense and switched to firearms. And there are reasons why black powder and percussion cap ignition fell out of favor when modern propellants and self-contained metallic cartridges came on the scene.

[Pezo]

I'd like to pick up a cabelas $199.00 sale cap and ball and get into black powder. I also would think musketry would be cool. I'd like to master a matchlock. There is an element of fun to shooting not always have to be defense oriented. But these primitive weapons are in the same field like you'd have with bow and arrows, atlatles, swords and such. I'd have a modern da cartridge revolver on for defense. I like wheel guns for reliability.

[USMCGrunt]

I seriously have to wonder how many folks have actually been on the 2-way shooting range or even been exposed to force-on-force training? I spent many years carrying a gun both at home and abroad both in a military occupation as well as a private citizen as well as having a lot of contact with local law enforcement officers as well. I can think of no military or LEO personnel nor do I know of any credible self defense instructors that either carry or advocate intentionally relying on cap and ball revolvers for defense. In the cop world, we would call this a clue. Self defense has no room for romantic nostalgia. I would highly reccomend taking a force on force training class where the targets move, think and shoot back to demonstrate just how fast and deadly a modern gunfight can be and why the old cap and ball revolver for me is relegated to range use only and not something intentionally carried with self defense in mind.

[Model12Win]

I seriously have to wonder how many folks have actually been on the 2-way shooting range or even been exposed to force-on-force training? I spent many years carrying a gun both at home and abroad both in a military occupation as well as a private citizen as well as having a lot of contact with local law enforcement officers as well. I can think of no military or LEO personnel nor do I know of any credible self defense instructors that either carry or advocate intentionally relying on cap and ball revolvers for defense. In the cop world, we would call this a clue. Self defense has no room for romantic nostalgia. I would highly reccomend taking a force on force training class where the targets move, think and shoot back to demonstrate just how fast and deadly a modern gunfight can be and why the old cap and ball revolver for me is relegated to range use only and not something intentionally carried with self defense in mind.

Nope, doesn't matter what you think. I'm an outlaw with my trusty cap gun six shooter, and ain't nothin' you young buck is gonna say that's gonna change ma mind.

[44 Dave]

If I were to go places where go where there are a lot of people, drug selling o crime in general I would want to be "well armed" but those of us that stay out of your urban hells don't need much. My .45 American Derringer is a some times companion, guess it falls into Black powder Cowboy Action but a Glock doesn't.

[Hawg]

I would carry my 51 navy before I'd carry a Glock. I would definitely be more proficient with the navy.

[deerslayer303]

Just wondering how many folks out there sometimes carry a bp revolver while about in public? My sheriff barrel Pietta Remmy sometimes takes the place of my Uberti Hombre .357.

Don't think he was asking for advice or some expert on a soap box pounding his fist on a podium spewing his vast knowledge of why he shouldn't carry that inferior weapon when a new plastic wonder holding 18 rounds and 3 back up magazines is a MUCH better choice. I'll bet you a fat rat to a funky monkey I can duplicate this thread in other areas of the forum. I'll bet I can go to the semi auto section and ask "How many folks "SOMETIMES" carry a P22" Or lets see maybe the hunting section and ask "how many folks hunt with a .243" Oh wait, yeah that one DID run into a poop ton of pages. One of my Friends has carried a Black hawk his entire adult life. It works for HIM and there is no changing his mind. I have seen him fire it quite quickly cocking every shot with the support hands thumb. Different strokes for different folks. Me personally, these days its mostly my trusty model 36 with its anemic .38 special +p and only 5 ROUNDS