Howell cylinder conversion

campingnights · October 3, 2014, 02:27 PM

I am thinking of a Howell conversion cylinder for my Pietta Remington Sheriff percussion revolver. There are too many various opinions on the net, but very little from folks that actually bought and used them. Particularly on what is safe to use in them. Past all the legal BS, I have half a box of lead 45 long colt cartridges and cannot find a definitive answer if standard 45 long colt is safe to shoot? Logically the factory ammo is designed to be safe to shoot in any revolver chambered for it. Is this conversion cylinder insufficient strength wise, or something? I tend to think it would be OK, but I would like to hear from someone who has actually done it (and still has a right hand). I am also curious if the firing pin plate can be easily cleaned as I would be setting up for blackpowder cartridges. Thanks

TemboTusk · October 3, 2014, 03:15 PM

I have had no trouble shooting both Black Powder, Winchester cowboy ammo, and my own Trail Boss hand loads on the heavy side. The cylinder itself is very robust.

The firing pin is easily cleaned with soap and water, rinse and spayed with WD-40 to displace the water. Drop of oil of choice and done.

Since the conversion, I shoot my Colt 1851, Walker and Dragoon so much more now.

Don't tell anybody, but I even shoot light Trail Boss loads with my brass frame 1851.
Prettiest revolver out there!!

Bishop Creek · October 3, 2014, 04:53 PM

I have owned both the Howell (R&D) conversion cylinder and Kirst model for over a decade. Both are very stout and clean up easily after shooting black powder. I have only fired smokeless "Cowboy" loads like those made by Ultramax (per manufacturers recommendations) and hand loaded black powder cartridges with them and have had no trouble. I have read that they are manufactured with stronger steel than the Italian revolvers that they are used in.

Jim Watson · October 3, 2014, 05:03 PM

One or both of the main converters says they use 4150 steel which is a fine modern material. Unless the design makes the walls paper thin (bolt notches?) they ought to hold any standard load.

Be advised, there is no pressure standard for "cowboy loads." They usually have lighter bullets at lower velocity than standard so as to reduce recoil for the tenderfeet. That does not necessarily mean they develop lower pressure. Like cheap shotshells, they might have a light charge of very fast powder putting up the full 13000 CUP. They might not, but there is no way of knowing for sure.

campingnights · October 3, 2014, 11:34 PM

Thanks guys! I appreciate hearing from someone who actually used one. Didn't intend to order one yet, but then I figured better to get one from Midway now, while they are on clearence. There a bit over $130 right now. Should be fun. All the stink, smoke, and thud of black powder, but without fumbling powder/wads/balls/caps and such.

campingnights · October 3, 2014, 11:39 PM

The deed is done. My conversion cylinder is on the way.

TemboTusk · October 3, 2014, 11:45 PM

Good for you! You'll never look back!

Bishop Creek · October 4, 2014, 01:21 AM

You'll love it. If it is for a .45 try loading a .451 round ball into a .45 Long Colt or .45 Schofield case filled with black powder and a cartridge card or a piece of beeswax/Crisco combo melted together and cut with an empty .45 case under the ball. Works great!

campingnights · October 9, 2014, 06:21 PM

Got my conversion cylinder today. Seems to drop right in and all the positions are indexing properly. Looks good. I'm real happy with it and looking forward to my 45 ammo being delivered soon. Might take awhile to reload, but I'm not so much in a hurry anyway.

noelf2 · October 9, 2014, 06:41 PM

Which ammo did you go with?

Tidewater_Kid · October 9, 2014, 08:28 PM

If possible, please post pictures!

TK

campingnights · October 9, 2014, 09:48 PM

Noelf, I went with Bone Orchard 45 long colt. Selway Armory had them for $25 a box. Its "smokey" ammo, whatever that is. Pretty decent price actually.

Tidewater, I'll see if I can get a decent pic.

campingnights · October 26, 2014, 09:52 PM

Had a beautiful fall day at the range with my eldest son and grandson. Colors, leaves drifting down, surely heaven must look something like this. I had thought the conversion cylinder would be awkward to use, but it wasn't. Little finagling to get it back in after each reload, but still less awkward than loose powder, patch and ball. I'm a convert, it's the best ofboth worlds. The Bone Orchard "smokey" ammo did not seem much more smokey than regular ammo. Soon as I can get dies and large pistol primers I will surely be reloading long colt black powder cartridges. A great day

Driftwood Johnson · October 27, 2014, 12:08 AM

Howdy

So which cylinder did you buy? The six shot 45 Colt cylinder that Taylors markets or the 5 shot 45 Colt cylinder that Ken Howell is selling these days from his Old West Conversions company.

You might want to take a look at this thread, which has been running at The High Road for a few days now.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=763885

campingnights · October 27, 2014, 05:03 AM

I have the 6 shot marked Taylors on the box. Accurscy is better than me, it shoots right where I aim it (not necessarily where I want to hit it). A bit low at 25 yards, but I didn't bring a file with me yesterday. Really bucked with the old 20 plus year factory ammo I burned, the Bone Orchard was much more pleasant to shoot however. The cylindar is extremely strong as one of my old factory smokeless rounds split its case. I only noticed as the case was harder to push out. Only one round did that, figure must have been a weak spot on the case. Fun, Safe, Easy to use, can't ask for more. The high road link was quite interrsting, thanks

Driftwood Johnson · October 27, 2014, 08:49 AM

Howdy Again

I have two Remmies fitted with the same cylinder. Those cylinders are specifically rated for Cowboy Loads! I would be leery of shooting standard factory loads in them. Particularly if one split a case!

Never heard of Bone Orchard before. Looked them up on the web. As long as they are mild Cowboy loads they should be fine in your R&D cylinder. Dunno about "smokey powder to give our shooters the authentic sight, smell, and feel of yesteryear." Sounds like a lot of hooey to me. Real Black Powder was the 'authentic' load when the 45 Colt was invented in 1873. Real Black Powder produces lots of smoke and sulfur smell, the real 'feel of yesteryear'.

campingnights · October 28, 2014, 04:19 AM

Hey Driftwood, based on burning a box of Bone Orchard ammo, it IS a bunch of hooey. Didn't seem all that "smokey" to me. I agree there is just nothing like black powder. That's what these casings will be reloaded with, eventually. Happy trails

campingnights · January 12, 2015, 01:02 PM

Its been a few months and I have had time to thoughly try out the conversion cylindar in my Remmy. I got to say that there is no thought of going back to loose powder and ball. I'm comfortable with putting the cylindar in and out and have found the converted Remmy completely reliable. It has become my favorite gun. Kinda wish I hadn't bought the 357 Cimarron Frontier (a big mistake) and had got another Remmy conversion while they were still cheap. Oh well hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it?

Thanks guys for all the input, just wanted to say it is appreciated.

Tidewater_Kid · January 12, 2015, 09:59 PM

Glad you are enjoying your revolver. I really like mine. I use Trail Boss and light bullets. I have fired it with loose powder and balls just to say I did it. I want to get a conversion cylinder for my 1860 now.

TK

noelf2 · January 13, 2015, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Kinda wish I hadn't bought the 357 Cimarron Frontier (a big mistake) and had got another Remmy conversion while they were still cheap.

They'll be cheap again, just keep an eye out.

October 3, 2014, 02:27 PM	#1
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Howell cylinder conversion I am thinking of a Howell conversion cylinder for my Pietta Remington Sheriff percussion revolver. There are too many various opinions on the net, but very little from folks that actually bought and used them. Particularly on what is safe to use in them. Past all the legal BS, I have half a box of lead 45 long colt cartridges and cannot find a definitive answer if standard 45 long colt is safe to shoot? Logically the factory ammo is designed to be safe to shoot in any revolver chambered for it. Is this conversion cylinder insufficient strength wise, or something? I tend to think it would be OK, but I would like to hear from someone who has actually done it (and still has a right hand). I am also curious if the firing pin plate can be easily cleaned as I would be setting up for blackpowder cartridges. Thanks __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 3, 2014, 03:15 PM	#2
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	I have had no trouble shooting both Black Powder, Winchester cowboy ammo, and my own Trail Boss hand loads on the heavy side. The cylinder itself is very robust. The firing pin is easily cleaned with soap and water, rinse and spayed with WD-40 to displace the water. Drop of oil of choice and done. Since the conversion, I shoot my Colt 1851, Walker and Dragoon so much more now. Don't tell anybody, but I even shoot light Trail Boss loads with my brass frame 1851. Prettiest revolver out there!! __________________ ...You will experience a giant “BOOM” and will disappear into a cloud of flame, smoke and debris. It will be awesome! www.TemboTusk.com

October 3, 2014, 11:34 PM	#5
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Thanks guys! I appreciate hearing from someone who actually used one. Didn't intend to order one yet, but then I figured better to get one from Midway now, while they are on clearence. There a bit over $130 right now. Should be fun. All the stink, smoke, and thud of black powder, but without fumbling powder/wads/balls/caps and such. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 3, 2014, 11:39 PM	#6
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	The deed is done. My conversion cylinder is on the way. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 3, 2014, 11:45 PM	#7
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	Good for you! You'll never look back! __________________ ...You will experience a giant “BOOM” and will disappear into a cloud of flame, smoke and debris. It will be awesome! www.TemboTusk.com

October 3, 2014, 04:53 PM	#3
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	I have owned both the Howell (R&D) conversion cylinder and Kirst model for over a decade. Both are very stout and clean up easily after shooting black powder. I have only fired smokeless "Cowboy" loads like those made by Ultramax (per manufacturers recommendations) and hand loaded black powder cartridges with them and have had no trouble. I have read that they are manufactured with stronger steel than the Italian revolvers that they are used in.

October 3, 2014, 05:03 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	One or both of the main converters says they use 4150 steel which is a fine modern material. Unless the design makes the walls paper thin (bolt notches?) they ought to hold any standard load. Be advised, there is no pressure standard for "cowboy loads." They usually have lighter bullets at lower velocity than standard so as to reduce recoil for the tenderfeet. That does not necessarily mean they develop lower pressure. Like cheap shotshells, they might have a light charge of very fast powder putting up the full 13000 CUP. They might not, but there is no way of knowing for sure.

October 4, 2014, 01:21 AM	#8
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	You'll love it. If it is for a .45 try loading a .451 round ball into a .45 Long Colt or .45 Schofield case filled with black powder and a cartridge card or a piece of beeswax/Crisco combo melted together and cut with an empty .45 case under the ball. Works great!

October 9, 2014, 06:21 PM	#9
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Got my conversion cylinder today. Seems to drop right in and all the positions are indexing properly. Looks good. I'm real happy with it and looking forward to my 45 ammo being delivered soon. Might take awhile to reload, but I'm not so much in a hurry anyway. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 9, 2014, 06:41 PM	#10
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Which ammo did you go with? __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

October 9, 2014, 08:28 PM	#11
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	If possible, please post pictures! TK

October 9, 2014, 09:48 PM	#12
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Noelf, I went with Bone Orchard 45 long colt. Selway Armory had them for $25 a box. Its "smokey" ammo, whatever that is. Pretty decent price actually. Tidewater, I'll see if I can get a decent pic. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 26, 2014, 09:52 PM	#13
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Had a beautiful fall day at the range with my eldest son and grandson. Colors, leaves drifting down, surely heaven must look something like this. I had thought the conversion cylinder would be awkward to use, but it wasn't. Little finagling to get it back in after each reload, but still less awkward than loose powder, patch and ball. I'm a convert, it's the best ofboth worlds. The Bone Orchard "smokey" ammo did not seem much more smokey than regular ammo. Soon as I can get dies and large pistol primers I will surely be reloading long colt black powder cartridges. A great day __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 27, 2014, 12:08 AM	#14
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy So which cylinder did you buy? The six shot 45 Colt cylinder that Taylors markets or the 5 shot 45 Colt cylinder that Ken Howell is selling these days from his Old West Conversions company. You might want to take a look at this thread, which has been running at The High Road for a few days now. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=763885

October 27, 2014, 05:03 AM	#15
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	I have the 6 shot marked Taylors on the box. Accurscy is better than me, it shoots right where I aim it (not necessarily where I want to hit it). A bit low at 25 yards, but I didn't bring a file with me yesterday. Really bucked with the old 20 plus year factory ammo I burned, the Bone Orchard was much more pleasant to shoot however. The cylindar is extremely strong as one of my old factory smokeless rounds split its case. I only noticed as the case was harder to push out. Only one round did that, figure must have been a weak spot on the case. Fun, Safe, Easy to use, can't ask for more. The high road link was quite interrsting, thanks __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

October 27, 2014, 08:49 AM	#16
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Again I have two Remmies fitted with the same cylinder. Those cylinders are specifically rated for Cowboy Loads! I would be leery of shooting standard factory loads in them. Particularly if one split a case! Never heard of Bone Orchard before. Looked them up on the web. As long as they are mild Cowboy loads they should be fine in your R&D cylinder. Dunno about "smokey powder to give our shooters the authentic sight, smell, and feel of yesteryear." Sounds like a lot of hooey to me. Real Black Powder was the 'authentic' load when the 45 Colt was invented in 1873. Real Black Powder produces lots of smoke and sulfur smell, the real 'feel of yesteryear'.

October 28, 2014, 04:19 AM	#17
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Hey Driftwood, based on burning a box of Bone Orchard ammo, it IS a bunch of hooey. Didn't seem all that "smokey" to me. I agree there is just nothing like black powder. That's what these casings will be reloaded with, eventually. Happy trails __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

January 12, 2015, 01:02 PM	#18
campingnights Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2014 Location: Frozen North Posts: 272	Its been a few months and I have had time to thoughly try out the conversion cylindar in my Remmy. I got to say that there is no thought of going back to loose powder and ball. I'm comfortable with putting the cylindar in and out and have found the converted Remmy completely reliable. It has become my favorite gun. Kinda wish I hadn't bought the 357 Cimarron Frontier (a big mistake) and had got another Remmy conversion while they were still cheap. Oh well hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it? Thanks guys for all the input, just wanted to say it is appreciated. __________________ Cry HAVOC! and let loose the chihuahuas of war. My wife told me that I can't have too many guns, I agreed and told her I can never have too many guns...and then the trouble began

January 12, 2015, 09:59 PM	#19
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	Glad you are enjoying your revolver. I really like mine. I use Trail Boss and light bullets. I have fired it with loose powder and balls just to say I did it. I want to get a conversion cylinder for my 1860 now. TK