The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 26, 2018, 10:49 PM   #1
Yosemite Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2017
Posts: 456
Savage 30-06 take off barrel

I see that I can get an un-fired savage 30-06 takeoff barrel for $85. It is a 22 inch barrel. Would it be worth the trouble? Is the factory barrel of good quality? Are they 2 MOA barrels?
Yosemite Steve is offline  
Old February 26, 2018, 11:12 PM   #2
Wyosmith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2010
Location: Shoshoni Wyoming
Posts: 2,396
I have shot a lot of Savage 100s (and it's variants) that shoot a LOT better than 2 MOA.
In fact 1/2 to 3/4 MOA is just expected for most of them.
Wyosmith is offline  
Old February 27, 2018, 01:12 PM   #3
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 14,472
It should be, but if the owner took it off because he didn't like the way it shot, then I'd be cautious. Any maker can screw up from time to time. But if he was just changing to a different chambering, it's probably OK. The .308 barrel on my rifle tended to pick up a lot of copper, as occasionally happens in mass production, too. I cured that by firelapping, but I mention it only to remind you this is a production barrel and not a hand-lapped custom barrel. Here's a comparison of a Savage factory and a Criterion barrel in the same gun.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old February 27, 2018, 01:37 PM   #4
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 9,572
$85 sounds decidedly light to me.
This sound familiar? "Blued – Small Shank – Sporter" NSS? Those barrels are relatively light weight barrels that they're trying to get rid of. Kind of short for .30-06, but they're mostly about the end weight of the rifle. MOA has nothing to do with it though.
And Savage is well known for their out of the box accuracy.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old February 27, 2018, 01:48 PM   #5
Yosemite Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2017
Posts: 456
Yeah... a 30" bull barrel no less. I don't think I would want to pack that on my shoulder for too long. The barrel I speak of is an unfired take off sold by a custom barrel maker. If I could slap it on and shoot 1 MOA without much hassle I think it would be worthwhile. As HiBC and others have suggested it IS a hunting rifle. I prefer a head or neck shot if it is reasonable so the kill is painless for the animal so I would like the smaller group. I am thinking that it might be worth the $85 to break in a barrel right and get a fresh start. It would suck if it still shoots the same though.
Yosemite Steve is offline  
Old February 27, 2018, 02:30 PM   #6
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,629
I have had two of what I call the pencil barrels. 30-06 and a 270 (still have the 270 as I want to play with it)

Both were actions I put a heavy barrel on, so I sold them. $85 is about right if you want that style a barrel. Certainly no more.

Neither one shot all that well but they did snoot under 2 MOA.

I had an original Savage Varmint Profile (close to a bull) that shot well.

I would call them ok hunting, both got wild after a third shot.

I don't like the new lightweight barrels. Carried a M77 all the years I hunted and did not feel I was burdoned.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 27, 2018, 03:00 PM   #7
Yosemite Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2017
Posts: 456
That is my gun. First two shots after cleaning will often be touching. Then they grow. Maybe I should load for that first shot and always clean before the hunt. Actually my last deer was a clean gun. Shot him between the eyes.
Yosemite Steve is offline  
Old February 27, 2018, 04:25 PM   #8
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,629
Whatever gives you first shot constancy, second one close. After that its almost not a factor, either you got it or its gone.

So far the 270 shoots in one spot, shifts over and puts two about 1.5 inches away.

Ok for hunting but doesn't give you a warm fuzzy.

I would prefer the first two closer to each other.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 27, 2018, 05:17 PM   #9
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 13,186
Quote:
Is the factory barrel of good quality?
IMO, no. I have seen a lot of Savage barrels that you can still see drill marks inside the barrel on the tops of the lands. Savage does not ream or hone their barrels before button rifling. You are a lot better off buying an aftermarket barrel if you are going to go to the trouble of rebarreling.
Quote:
Are they 2 MOA barrels?
For the first 5-10 shots, sure. After that, it's anyone's guess what you'll get.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old February 27, 2018, 05:34 PM   #10
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
Posts: 1,435
I any of my Savages ever ended up shooting as large a group as 2 MOA, i'd sell it to Scorch lickety split.
:
std7mag is offline  
Old February 28, 2018, 01:12 AM   #11
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 13,186
I don't buy Savages.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old February 28, 2018, 06:25 AM   #12
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Pennsyltucky...
Posts: 1,435
Try it.
You'll like it..
:
std7mag is offline  
Old February 28, 2018, 09:45 AM   #13
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 5,708
Its your rifle,your money,your priorities.
I can't answer your question.
Write down what it is you have...your rifle,current barrel.

Write down your current rifle's perceived shortcoming.

Write down your perceived need,like what MOA do you want.

What are the odds the new barrelwill do it.?

Write down your resouces and what it will cost.Are you going to do it or have it done by your gunsmith "buddy"? Do you have a headspace gauge?Do you have the tools to R+R the barrel without twisting the receiver rails?

At some point you make a decision. Then you live with it.

Now,the details of what I'm going to say next are none of my business.I'm not asking questions.
You mentioned you already spent all your money on this rifle.

With all due respect,you have mentioned a Wife.
I'll stop there.

Once again,bench groups don't mean that much. How are you in a field position? Ammo is expensive. If you shoot $85 worth of powder,primers,bullets and brass, will you have more fun? Shoot better than changing barrels?

I can't answer those questions,and your answers are none of my business.

Sleep on it.
HiBC is offline  
Old February 28, 2018, 10:49 AM   #14
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,629
The interior condition of the barrels is not an aspect of accuracy, or more accurately (pun intended) accuracy down to 1/2 MOA.

A rough barrel can shoot and do often in Savage shoot just fine, certanly sub 3/4 MOA.

A fine finished barrel can shoot poorly.

Savage does not lap their barrels, they do use button rifling equipment (which is what most of the mid level barrel makers use)

Odds of a poor Savage barrel are higher as they mass produce and they do straiten bent ones (which was the norm for a long time)

Criterion, Shilen, Xcaliber etc have higher quality standards, they don't let a bent barrel through, they do lap them somewhat (Xcaliber less so)

I like my Shilen barrel the best, its nicely finished. Lother Walther is also well finished. Xcaliber not as good at least when I got it.

While I don't have a Criterion Barrel, the reports on function and finish match up with what I see in my Shilen barrel.

You can go Barlein or Lilja etc that cut rifle barrels. I don't think I am capable of taking advantage of what they offer.

The nicer finished barrels are a lot easier to clean (or clean up quicker)
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 28, 2018, 10:55 AM   #15
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,629
Quote:
It should be, but if the owner took it off because he didn't like the way it shot, then I'd be cautious.
Most of us that take OEM Savage barrels off, bought the gun for the action (much lower cost) and plan on a barrel upgrade.

If I had one of the Cabelas 12FV or 10T models, I would shoot that barrel and see how it does.

In the case of the 30-06, I got a stock and a rail with the gun which is all I wanted and I put a Bull Shilen on it. I didn't shoot the pencil barrel other than to confirm the action worked correctly.

I also have a 270 that I bought as the rifle was on a very good discounted sale, the barrel is off and its now a 7.5 x 55 Swiss.

As noted they usually are good enough hunting barrels and no one buys them for target work.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 28, 2018, 02:30 PM   #16
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 4,551
Any NTO Savage barrel is fine for hunting accuracy. Never heard of them making a 30" bull in .06, sounds like it would have needed to come from a target rifle for a barrel that long.

In any case, even if you cut it, its still going to be one heavy telephone pole to lug around in the field.
I'd keep looking for a lighter and shorter contour for a hunting application.
__________________
Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting
07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts
Genuine Cerakote Applicator
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old February 28, 2018, 06:47 PM   #17
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,629
Just to clarify, its a 26 inch bull and it is a target setup only.

Its an MO for type of Savage owner that buys the gun because you can change the barrels yourself with about $100 to 150 in tools (one time investment).

The taken off barrels go up for sale on Ebay and Gunbroker.

Those are usually the 22 inch pencil barrels.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old February 28, 2018, 09:39 PM   #18
Yosemite Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2017
Posts: 456
My existing barrel is a 22 inch.
Yosemite Steve is offline  
Old March 1, 2018, 10:49 AM   #19
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 14,472
I somehow hadn't registered in my last post that you had said "unfired". 22" is a good length, IMHO. Very close to the 21¾" optimum from the Houston Warehouse experiments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorch
Savage does not ream or hone their barrels before button rifling.
You are correct about honing, from what I saw when I was taken on a tour through their plant, but I don't think they'll mind my mentioning that I watched them bore and ream blanks. They even had cut-rifling machines running, though I can't tell you which particular models those cut-rifled barrels were being made for.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old March 1, 2018, 02:11 PM   #20
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,629
What produces a finished inside is lapping afterwards.

Savage is not a custom barrel maker and they do it as fast as they can with what they consider acceptable results.

It works well overall. They will replace a barrel if its a bad one.

The button rifling process leaves chatter marks in the groves. Those are from really ugly to no so bad depending on how worn the button is)

Other than cleaning being harder and some copper build up in the chatter dips, works pretty good.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old March 1, 2018, 04:41 PM   #21
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 4,551
In post #1, you mentioned a 22" barrel...
Then post #5, a 30" barrel...
Quote:
Yeah... a 30" bull barrel no less.
Now 26"?

Quote:
Just to clarify, its a 26 inch bull
Moving on...Good Luck!
__________________
Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting
07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts
Genuine Cerakote Applicator
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old March 1, 2018, 05:10 PM   #22
Yosemite Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2017
Posts: 456
The link on post #3 was to a 30" bull barrel. Mine has alwas been a 22". When I'm at the bar it's a 36'! RC20 said he has a 26". I beleive that was in reference to his 270. When life gets tough sometimes it is best to move on...
Yosemite Steve is offline  
Old March 2, 2018, 03:25 PM   #23
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,629
tobnr:

The lengths got mixed up.

My bull is 26 inches.

YS: 30 inches.

Standard length for the Savage ligh6 weight hunting rifle (barrels only, the action is the same) is 22 inches these days.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old March 2, 2018, 05:26 PM   #24
Yosemite Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2017
Posts: 456
I heard the Canadians pretty much cornered the market on take off barrels.
Yosemite Steve is offline  
Old March 3, 2018, 10:26 AM   #25
Yosemite Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2017
Posts: 456
Going back through all of my load history I am finding that this gun likes to shoot a bullet with a short jump through a freshly cleaned barrel. Many of my fouling shots are touching... 165 SST seated .005" off had a 1/2" group. 180 SST seated .005" off had a 3/4" group. 180 seated .010" off had 3 different 1" groups. The only catch with this is that I can't shoot higher velocities without big pressure spikes. I will say that the Speer 2052 (180 SPBT) does not have as big of pressure signs seated close as the SST's. The COL of the Speer bullet to the lands is .040" longer and there isn't much neck holding onto them.

Once the barrel is fouled the load tweaking and seating depth are finicky and hard to duplicate. I think that maybe I should load and sight in for first shot accuracy. What a pain to have to clean it before each shot.... But shooting that deer between the eyes was quite satisfying.

Last edited by Yosemite Steve; March 3, 2018 at 10:33 AM.
Yosemite Steve is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09672 seconds with 9 queries