Magnum Shotgun shells

[Bucksnort1]

Recently, I hunted ducks. For purely nostalgic reasons, I took my Ithaca, 12 ga, over-and-under, purchased in 1967, shotgun. The hunt was a total bust because we did not see a bird close enough to shoot. When I returned home, I realized this was a good thing because my Ithaca is chambered for 2.750" shells and I took 3" shells. The shells chambered and the gun closed normally. I have three questions.

First, I'm assuming 3" magnum shells were not readily available during that era and guns were generally not chambered for 3" shells. Is this accurate?

Second, I'm guessing there aren't many, if any, modern shotgun makers making guns not chambered for 3" shells and if there are, why would one make a chamber 2.75" chamber that would accept a 3" shell. Is this accurate?

Finally, is there enough of an over-kill factor made in the Ithaca that could have taken at least one or several 3" pressures?

[SHR970]

First, I'm assuming 3" magnum shells were not readily available during that era and guns were generally not chambered for 3" shells. Is this accurate?

Paper shells in 3" and even 3 1/4" were available in 1900. after a while the US makers settled on 2 3/4" and 3" as the two sixes they would use. Ironically, for duck hunting it was very common to use 2 3/4" 3 3/4 dram #4 lead until the lead ban came about. Most people didn't see the need to use 3" unless shooting geese and even that was subject to debate back in the day.

Second, I'm guessing there aren't many, if any, modern shotgun makers making guns not chambered for 3" shells and if there are, why would one make a chamber 2.75" chamber that would accept a 3" shell. Is this accurate?

The chamber length is meant to accept the opened shot shell. Put an opened 2 3/4" shell next to a closed 3" shell. You'll see why the 3" fits initially. It is when the round opens up that you run into issues. The crimp will open into the forcing cone not the chamber and you will be dealing with a constricted shot column and high pressures.

Finally, is there enough of an over-kill factor made in the Ithaca that could have taken at least one or several 3" pressures?

Maybe; depends on the ammo you were using. If steel, you would have likely bulged the forcing cone right away. The gun will more likely than not hold together for a few shots but damage to it is very likely. Bismuth would be more if not the most forgiving.

Coincidentally it was very fortunate for you that your trip was a bust.

[Ricklin]

The stated length of the shell is the FIRED length. Thus most if not all 2.75 guns will accept a 3.00 inch shell. Esp. break open guns.

That sure don't mean they should be fired. There is not enough "room" for the crimp to open properly in most cases, and of course pressures are already higher due to the "magnum" designation of most 3" shells.

3" shells have been around for a long time, at least the 1950's.

Also note that many old shotguns and many Euro shotguns have short chambers. Early 16 gauge guns have 2 9/16" chambers.
Many British doubles are designed for 2.5" 12 gauge shells.

In most cases a strong gun will take the mistake a time or two. Patterns will likely be poor.

Don't shoot longer shells in short chambered guns. It usually takes a gunsmith to properly measure a chamber.

Glad you did not touch one off, but odds are it would not "blow up" the gun.

[Virginian]

The SAAMI maximum pressure level for all 2-3/4" and 3" shells, whether they are steel, lead buckshot, slug, or whatever, is exactly the same. It would probably not have blown up the gun, but still not a great idea to shoot shells the gun wasn't designed for.
If you were shooting steel shells, I would be more concerned about shooting those in a fixed choke barrel. O/Us and SxSs typically have thinner barrels out at the business end, and I have seen several repeaters with barrels bulged in the choke area.

[Bucksnort1]

SHR970, RICKLIN and Virginian-in-LA,

I thank all of you for the most informative information. RICLKLIN, I too am glad the hunt was a bust. I will be more careful, in the future. The length of the chamber is determined by the length of the fired shell make sense.

[Bucksnort1]

Virginian-in-LA,

What "moved" you (pardon the intended pun) to "move" to LA? I am a Texas boy who lived in a number of places (father was Army officer), including Richmond, Falls Church, and Bailey's Crossroads but I never lived in Short Pump or Bumpass, VA.

[TomADC]

My Miruko O/U 20 ga skeet gun has 3" chambers I used 3" for pigeons and pheasant really seemed to extend the range a tad., only time I used 3" shells.

[SPEMack618]

I had a similar experience in that I bought 3" shells for my Little Sister when she was coming duck hunting with me. Didn't even think about the fact that her/my 1100 was an older gun stamped "For 2 3/4" shells or shorter"

I was thankful that she was sharp enough to pick up on that before she even chambered a shell...just not before we were already in the blind.

Dad was never a real big duck hunter, and hadn't hunted any after steel shot became required, so the first time I went hunting, I scoured every gun store, big box store, and pawn shop trying to find 2 3/4" steel shells for my Sportsman 58.

[Virginian]

Virginian-in-LA,
What "moved" you (pardon the intended pun) to "move" to LA? I am a Texas boy who lived in a number of places (father was Army officer), including Richmond, Falls Church, and Bailey's Crossroads but I never lived in Short Pump or Bumpass, VA.

I never lived in Short Pump either, but I have bought gas there.
I spent over 30 years in pulp and paper watching almost the whole industry go down the drain due to cheaper foreign competition. Saw an ad for a little high tech company pioneering the production of lignocellulosic ethanol in Louisiana, followed up, and here I am. Less than a year after I moved down here, BP bought the whole works. Life is good again.

[BigJimP]

There are lots of shotguns made today in 2 3/4" chambers...especially in Over Unders that are marketed by their mfg's as "Target or Clay Target guns"...where 3" chambers are more common on guns that are marketed as "field" guns..../ and of course a lot of field guns today are chambered in 3 1/2" as well marketed for "waterfowl"....

But I use my primary target guns...as upland bird field guns also / Browning Citori XS Skeet model over unders .....( my 12ga, 20ga and 28ga XS Skeet models are all 2 3/4" chambers --- and my .410 is a 2 1/2" chamber ).

As others advised its the fired length of the shell - that is the length of the shell...( and its a common discussion among a lot of shooters / that do not realize the issue ) ..... I hear the same thing in gun shops all the time ...( a 3" shell fits / is it safe to shoot in a 2 3/4" chamber ??)....No, its not.

[Bucksnort1]

Virginian,

Did you work for the paper mill in Hopewell or Franklin, VA? After your response, I guess we should quit the non-shotgun related talk. Thanks.

[Virginian]

Nope, I started at Chesapeake in West Point, but I have been to the mills in Hopewell and Franklin many times. It's shotgun related, as I bought several from Green Top back then.