Doubles are shorter!

ZVP · October 26, 2014, 11:32 PM

My 26" Doublebarrel is just as long in OAL as my chopped 1919" Pumpgun. Sure is an advantage there!
The only trouble is that the Double dosen't make that dreaded "Clack-Clack" cocking noise and it holds more shells.
I guess if 2 shells don't strike home, you;d better pratice quick reloads!
ZVP

jimbob86 · October 26, 2014, 11:41 PM

Quote:

The only trouble is that the Double dosen't make that dreaded "Clack-Clack" cocking noise

Mehbee so.... but staring down two holes nigh 3/4 inch in diameter has to be at least twice as intimidating as that "Clack-Clack" sound .......

Model12Win · October 26, 2014, 11:41 PM

I agree ZVP.

I don't care for the "clack clack" sound myself.

For me, my Stevens 311R riot gun makes all the noise I need:

*KABOOOM!!!!!! KABOOOOM!!!!!!!*

idek · October 27, 2014, 12:06 AM

Yes, the lack of a receiver on a double can offer a decided advantage over a pump or semi-auto in terms of length. A difference of about 4" in some cases (with same LOP).

Seems like people are split on the whole racking the slide thing. Some think it's a great means of intimidation. Others think the noise gives up their position, thus losing any element of surprise.

Not sure how much I buy into the intimidation idea in general. Is an intruder going to react much differently whether a .44 magnum or a 9mm is pointed at them? Will two barrels frighten them more than one? Maybe, but I'd much rather rely on a good plan, practiced skills, and tools I can use well. Hard to say what an intruder will do. I can only control what I do.

jimbob86 · October 27, 2014, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Will two barrels frighten them more than one?

Sorry, sarcasm didn't register ....

If a threat warrants getting a gun out to defend one's castle (deadly force), then "intimidation" is not a consideration ...... my state does not require retreat from one's home ..... if the goblin comes to your home hunting for you, then he's fair game .....

Dreaming100Straight · October 27, 2014, 02:41 AM

Quote:

my state does not require retreat from one's home ..... if the goblin comes to your home hunting for you, then he's fair game .....

If your state is Nebraska, [IMG]my state does not require retreat from one's home ..... if the goblin comes to your home hunting for you, then he's fair game .....[/IMG] says you don't understand the laws of your state.

Quote:

"If somebody gets in your house, you can shoot them, that is not a blanket statement," says Sheriff Terry Wagner of Lancaster County.

The law considers a number of factors, like the size of the intruder versus the size of the homeowner, and whether or not the intruder retreats once confronted.

Virginian · October 27, 2014, 05:55 AM

If the intruder is dead, then there is only one witness, you. As the officer teaching the concealed carry class advised, don't say ANYTHING when the police get there. You will be hyped up, and anything can be used against you.

jimbob86 · October 27, 2014, 11:10 AM

Quote:

If your state is Nebraska, [IMG]my state does not require retreat from one's home ..... if the goblin comes to your home hunting for you, then he's fair game .....[/IMG] says you don't understand the laws of your state.

I know the law here pretty well, and it is as I stated: One is not required to retreat from one's home(or place of business), only to retreat if it is safe to do so .... "If they are hunting for you...." assumed they are following your retreat ..... there was a case in Omaha a couple of years back where the resident retreated to his bedroom, and the hime invader followed ..... was ruled self defense, no charges filed......

Quote:

"If somebody gets in your house, you can shoot them, that is not a blanket statement," says Sheriff Terry Wagner of Lancaster County.

The law considers a number of factors, like the size of the intruder versus the size of the homeowner, and whether or not the intruder retreats once confronted.

LEO's are notorious for being really bad for legal advice .....

**Frank Ettin** · October 27, 2014, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob86

...LEO's are notorious for being really bad for legal advice .....

So are some guys on the Internet.

Let's not turn this thread into a discussion of Castle Doctrine/Stand-Your-Ground laws. There's already been some poor and misleading information on that subject posted here. It's an important subject that deserves and requires close attention and an understanding of how the details matter.

For a detailed discussion see these threads: Duty to Retreat, "Stand Your Ground", and Castle Doctrine and Civil Liability, Civil Immunity, and the Use of Force.

So let's not lead people further astray in this thread.

**44 AMP** · October 30, 2014, 12:35 PM

and speaking of being led astray...

Quote:

Yes, the lack of a receiver on a double...

Doubles ALL have receivers, they are just a lot shorter than those on repeaters.

Model12Win · October 30, 2014, 01:04 PM

While not a double, I've a single shot Pardner shotgun of the gauge 12 cut down to 18.5" and boy... talk about handy! The thing is so light and small it litteraly feels like a BB gun... but let me tell you... 3" magnum Brenneke bear slugs don't feel too good shooting from a <5 lb shotgun with a plastic butt plate!

jimbob86 · October 31, 2014, 02:40 PM

Quote:

let me tell you... 3" magnum Brenneke bear slugs don't feel too good shooting from a <5 lb shotgun with a plastic butt plate!

I doubt it would matter what the butt plate was made out of: pushing that much energy out the front end, with so little weight to provide the inertia to resist it, is going to give some unpleasant energy to the user on the back end..... in physics, TANSTAAFL!

bamaranger · November 1, 2014, 11:48 PM

Once the leaves come out in Spring Gobbler season, I have been known to carry an over/under w/ 26" bls. It is nearly the same length as my 3 inch 21" barreled pump, and shorter than my big 3.5 inch 24" barreled gun. And lighter than both. The double beaded single sighting plane works, and the fact that it is a 2.75" gun does not really bother me what with modern ammo, and the shots generally closer later in the season.

A 20" double like the vast majority of the "coach guns" seem insanely short and light. I showed up one time with a coach gun stuffed w/ OO buck to follow up a wounded deer in a pine plantation. My buddy quizzed me as to whether it was even legal, and once his worries were abated, labeled the stubby double the "swamp gun". We found the deer too, dead as a hammer, after about 150 yds.

semi_problomatic · November 3, 2014, 05:03 AM

I'm not sure I see the advantage? Are you using your double to clear houses? Maybe you're worried the ducks will get away if a longer gun gets tangled in your vehicle as you bail out?

Maybe having two empty chambers with a handful of rounds some where on a shelf, or two loaded and ready to accidentally fire - is some-how superior to having 5 in a tube ready to go with an empty chamber...? I just don't see it.

Don't really buy into the whole clack-clack bit as I'd prefer a semi-auto over a pump for HD.... But thats just me. I've never heard of anyone complaining because they brought TOO MUCH ammo to a fire-fight. Could you imagine? "Geeze, I can't believe I have extra bullets after that shoot out. I sure wish my gun held less!"

Then again, guys who didn't bring enough generally arn't able to complain either...

wojtekimbier · November 3, 2014, 11:05 AM

Some people like to hunt with single-shot rifles instead of bolt-action rifles for the same reason. They are shorter and lighter with similar barrel length, and you probably wouldn't need the second shot anyway. About 4 inches do make a difference when walking around in the woods.
Better to have more ammo in HD situation though.

**44 AMP** · November 3, 2014, 12:33 PM

Quote:

I'm not sure I see the advantage?

The advantage is shorter guns handle faster, are quicker to get on target and less likely to be snagged on things.

There are situations where this is an important consideration that are not tactical exercises. People hunt more than just ducks with shotguns, and a good length in a duck blind is not the best choice for an alder thicket.

If you do want to talk about combat type situations, the firepower of the repeater out weighs the double barrel's shorter overall length (with equal barrel lengths).

semi_problomatic · November 4, 2014, 01:59 AM

I agree 44, but I was responding to the vein of the OP. I could just as well of said rabbits to ducks (the main reason I want a sxs) or clays. I really didn't think this post was at all about hunting... Unless someone thinks the "dreaded *clack clack*" makes animals die in fright....

**44 AMP** · November 4, 2014, 12:05 PM

Good point, I didn't really focus on the "clack-clack" part of the OP.

My son once described the defensive use of a pump shotgun as "the American martial art of Ching Ching Pau!"

Despite its recommendation by such dubious experts as VP Biden, the double is still a viable choice for home defense. Not the best choice available for house clearing, or other combat type situations, but not a useless one for the homeowner type who is not going on the counter attack.

The majority of break in type assaults end at the sight, or sound of a gun in the homeowner's hands. This is where the pump's noisy action is useful, although the sound alone being enough to defend yourself is as much BS as "its a shotgun, you don't have to aim".

In this regard, the double is virtually silent when you work the action. A slight click when it cocks, and it can be closed silently. Don't snap it open and shut like they do on TV or in the movies. That can actually damage the gun.

A shooter never has too much ammo (unless he can't carry it all) just like a pilot never has too much fuel (unless the plane is on fire).

But there are a great many situations in life where less than the max possible is still more than enough.

October 26, 2014, 11:32 PM	#1
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Doubles are shorter! My 26" Doublebarrel is just as long in OAL as my chopped 1919" Pumpgun. Sure is an advantage there! The only trouble is that the Double dosen't make that dreaded "Clack-Clack" cocking noise and it holds more shells. I guess if 2 shells don't strike home, you;d better pratice quick reloads! ZVP

October 27, 2014, 05:55 AM	#7
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	If the intruder is dead, then there is only one witness, you. As the officer teaching the concealed carry class advised, don't say ANYTHING when the police get there. You will be hyped up, and anything can be used against you. __________________ What could have happened... did.

November 1, 2014, 11:48 PM	#13
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	yes they are Once the leaves come out in Spring Gobbler season, I have been known to carry an over/under w/ 26" bls. It is nearly the same length as my 3 inch 21" barreled pump, and shorter than my big 3.5 inch 24" barreled gun. And lighter than both. The double beaded single sighting plane works, and the fact that it is a 2.75" gun does not really bother me what with modern ammo, and the shots generally closer later in the season. A 20" double like the vast majority of the "coach guns" seem insanely short and light. I showed up one time with a coach gun stuffed w/ OO buck to follow up a wounded deer in a pine plantation. My buddy quizzed me as to whether it was even legal, and once his worries were abated, labeled the stubby double the "swamp gun". We found the deer too, dead as a hammer, after about 150 yds.

November 3, 2014, 05:03 AM	#14
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	I'm not sure I see the advantage? Are you using your double to clear houses? Maybe you're worried the ducks will get away if a longer gun gets tangled in your vehicle as you bail out? Maybe having two empty chambers with a handful of rounds some where on a shelf, or two loaded and ready to accidentally fire - is some-how superior to having 5 in a tube ready to go with an empty chamber...? I just don't see it. Don't really buy into the whole clack-clack bit as I'd prefer a semi-auto over a pump for HD.... But thats just me. I've never heard of anyone complaining because they brought TOO MUCH ammo to a fire-fight. Could you imagine? "Geeze, I can't believe I have extra bullets after that shoot out. I sure wish my gun held less!" Then again, guys who didn't bring enough generally arn't able to complain either... __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 4, 2014, 01:59 AM	#17
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	I agree 44, but I was responding to the vein of the OP. I could just as well of said rabbits to ducks (the main reason I want a sxs) or clays. I really didn't think this post was at all about hunting... Unless someone thinks the "dreaded clack clack" makes animals die in fright.... __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello... Last edited by semi_problomatic; November 4, 2014 at 02:20 AM.

October 26, 2014, 11:41 PM	#3
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	I agree ZVP. I don't care for the "clack clack" sound myself. For me, my Stevens 311R riot gun makes all the noise I need: KABOOOM!!!!!! KABOOOOM!!!!!!!

October 27, 2014, 12:06 AM	#4
idek Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 903	Yes, the lack of a receiver on a double can offer a decided advantage over a pump or semi-auto in terms of length. A difference of about 4" in some cases (with same LOP). Seems like people are split on the whole racking the slide thing. Some think it's a great means of intimidation. Others think the noise gives up their position, thus losing any element of surprise. Not sure how much I buy into the intimidation idea in general. Is an intruder going to react much differently whether a .44 magnum or a 9mm is pointed at them? Will two barrels frighten them more than one? Maybe, but I'd much rather rely on a good plan, practiced skills, and tools I can use well. Hard to say what an intruder will do. I can only control what I do.

October 30, 2014, 01:04 PM	#11
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	While not a double, I've a single shot Pardner shotgun of the gauge 12 cut down to 18.5" and boy... talk about handy! The thing is so light and small it litteraly feels like a BB gun... but let me tell you... 3" magnum Brenneke bear slugs don't feel too good shooting from a <5 lb shotgun with a plastic butt plate!

November 3, 2014, 11:05 AM	#15
wojtekimbier Member Join Date: September 1, 2013 Location: Poland Posts: 41	Some people like to hunt with single-shot rifles instead of bolt-action rifles for the same reason. They are shorter and lighter with similar barrel length, and you probably wouldn't need the second shot anyway. About 4 inches do make a difference when walking around in the woods. Better to have more ammo in HD situation though.

November 4, 2014, 12:05 PM	#18
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Good point, I didn't really focus on the "clack-clack" part of the OP. My son once described the defensive use of a pump shotgun as "the American martial art of Ching Ching Pau!" Despite its recommendation by such dubious experts as VP Biden, the double is still a viable choice for home defense. Not the best choice available for house clearing, or other combat type situations, but not a useless one for the homeowner type who is not going on the counter attack. The majority of break in type assaults end at the sight, or sound of a gun in the homeowner's hands. This is where the pump's noisy action is useful, although the sound alone being enough to defend yourself is as much BS as "its a shotgun, you don't have to aim". In this regard, the double is virtually silent when you work the action. A slight click when it cocks, and it can be closed silently. Don't snap it open and shut like they do on TV or in the movies. That can actually damage the gun. A shooter never has too much ammo (unless he can't carry it all) just like a pilot never has too much fuel (unless the plane is on fire). But there are a great many situations in life where less than the max possible is still more than enough. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.