30-06 or 8mm for blacktail?

BBall550 · October 2, 2002, 01:06 PM

OK I know both will do the job fine but here is my delima.

I have a Remington 760 pump in 30-06 iron sights and a ex-military 8mm mauser in a monte carlo style stock with a scope.

im looking for a gun to shoot out no farther than but out to 500 yards. Do I scope the 06 or shoot the war era gun?

Im somewhat familiar with the 30-06 balistics but really know nothing about the 8mm and how it behaves.

Would I be CLEARLY better off with one or the other?

input please

BBall

Chuck Dye · October 2, 2002, 02:18 PM

Looking at the ammo library of the Oehler Ballistic Explorer, about the best Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6 inch vital zone with the .30-06 is the Federal High Energy catalog # P3006R. It lobs a 180 grain Nosler Partition, B.C.=0.487, at 2880fps from a 24 inch barrel, is +/- 3 inches max out to 286 yards. Sighted dead on at 300 yards, it peaks at about 5.1 inches high and is 30 inches low at 500 yards.

The best long range factory 8mm Mauser load in the Oehler library is probably the Norma catalog # 18017, a 165 grain Protected Power Cavity bullet with B.C.=0.274 leaving a 24 inch barrel at 2850fps. Max point blank range for a 6 inch vital zone is 264 yards. Zeroed a t 300 yards it peaks about 6.5 inches high and is 44 inches low at 500.

http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/javapagee.htm and

http://internet.cybermesa.com/~jbm/b...traj/traj.html

will allow you to play with the numbers. The Norma page is especially fun.

eroyd · October 2, 2002, 02:23 PM

I seriously doubt that either of those two rifles (as are) would be accurate enough to consider taking 500m shots on small blacktails. I would probably sell both and buy a good used bolt gun in something flat shooting from 25 - 30 cal. A good quality variable scope in a 3x9 would be an advantage for those long shots.

Art Eatman · October 2, 2002, 05:38 PM

BBall550, we don't know how much shooting you do or have done; we don't really know the sort of country you're hunting. 500 yards is a Long Way. Out of some 50 deer I've killed over the last 35 years, one was at 350 yards; one at 450, and the rest inside of 200.

Anyhow, unless you've really gotten married to the iron sights on that '06, the odds are that you'll be more likely to hit a 200-400 yard deer with the scoped 8mm.

My recommendation would be to zero at 200 yards, which will put you around eight inches low at 300. (This works great for deer inside of 250 yards; you don't have to think. Just point it and pull.) Then, get a Bushnell 800 laser rangefinder, to use if Bambi looks to be Awful Far Away. And, write down the bullet drop for 350, 400, 450 and 500 yards and tape it to the stock. You can get the numbers from a Sierra reloading handbook, back in the Exterior Ballistics section.

$0.02, Art

BBall550 · October 3, 2002, 05:26 PM

All sound advice.

I took my first deer with a MAK-90, 60yd shot. Hunting clear cut re-growth. This year I took my AR-15. Ive never looked at a shot longer than about 100yds, so I figured Id be set. Well last weekend (opening western deer rifle) I found myself at the top of a clear cut in thick fog on a Sunday morning after the rain. Still nothing beyond 100yds. Then the fog lifted and there stood 3 bucks. 2 forked horns and a big three point (in the west we only count one side of the rack). Problem was they were all between 300 and 400 yds. There I was with my open sight AR-15 looking at the only bucks we had seen all weekend. I didnt like the shot so I got on the walkie talkie and asked for someone with a scope to head my way. Well my buddy showed up with a scoped 06 and took my damn 3 point. I told myself right there I needed to trade in the AR for something with a scope and maybe a bit bigger for long range. I inheirited a Rem. 760 and the 8mm from my grandfather. I was trying to decide on weather to buy a scope for the 760 30-06 or just pack the heavier, nicer, older but already scoped 8mm. Im leaning towards buying a scope and mount for the 06, unless the 8mm would be better. I know very little about the 8mm and was unsure if it would be better or worse than the 06. Seems they are fairly close with the utility of the 06 giving it the edge.

I thank you gentlemen for your advice.

BBall

attached photos of said rifles for kicks and giggles.

October 3, 2002, 09:35 PM

If the scoped 8mm Mauser bolt-action shoots as good as it looks then it'd work just fine for the longer shots to 300 yards.

Only way to know for sure it to take it to the range and see what you can do.

BBall550 · October 4, 2002, 02:24 AM

OK one last question or several.

Im now leaning towards the 8mm due to the fact it already has a scope. But. This is a G.29/40 with all matching sn#s and nazi proof marks. The stock is not original. Should I be shooting this rifle and lugging it all over hell and back? Are these types of matching rifles a dime a dozen? Is this rare? Is it safe to shoot modern ammo in this rifle?

BBall

another pic

labgrade · October 4, 2002, 04:03 AM

300 yards is very doable with a decent rifle & somebody who knows what they're about.

400 yards is doable with somebody who has practiced quite a bit more & with a rifle/ammo combo that has played quite a bit more.

500 yards is beyond that quite a bit.

A 760 is within that capablity IF you've put in the time, you know you ammo very well AND you have put in the time to be able to 1) first & foremost, judge the range (likely a +/- 5 feet & then, be able to have a rock-steady field condition rest to be able to ethically connect.

I'd perhaps only take a 500 yard shot on a politician. Seriously.

I've shot crows at well past 400 yards & a couple deer & an antelope, but it isn't something you just walk up & do.

There is a bit of prep-work to get there.

Somebody just buying a rifle, shooting a 1/2 box to sight it in (if that) at 100 yards, & going out to try a 500 yard shot on a deer is wasting their time, ammo & worst case, a wounded, dying deer to a slow death - & unrecovered.

I'd very much suggest a much closer shot (perhaps well within 200 yards) by hunting techniques that will get you within a reasonable range.

Hunting & "sniping" are two very different techniques.

If you can't hunt, I'd be willing to bet the farm that you can't "snipe."

No offense, & BTW, I'd pass on anything even considering anywhere near a 500 yard shot - for now.

Art Eatman · October 4, 2002, 11:19 AM

BBall, once it's drilled and tapped for a scope, it's just another sporterized Mauser.

That was a very, very common post-WW II deal. You gotta remember that to most folks (until rather recently) those old guns were "just guns", and weren't considered as more than a good action to use to make a "real rifle".

Art

BBall550 · October 4, 2002, 01:40 PM

Thanks a ton for all your input

Looks like the 8mm wins the bid for now. Off to the store for ammo and then to the range for gun time.

I admit 500yds would be stretching it. I was more after the limits of the rifles than myself.

BBall

Al Thompson · October 4, 2002, 02:07 PM

How's the trigger pull on the 8mm? If it's much over 4 pounds or so, the cost of a Timney trigger would be money well spent. The trigger and scope are your "fire control system" and make or break any rifle.

ojibweindian · October 4, 2002, 05:35 PM

BBall

ARt is right, there are tons of sporterized mausers out there. But, if it's any consolation, the one you have is truly beautiful!

October 2, 2002, 01:06 PM	#1
BBall550 Member Join Date: April 30, 2002 Location: The Valley, Orygun Posts: 79	30-06 or 8mm for blacktail? OK I know both will do the job fine but here is my delima. I have a Remington 760 pump in 30-06 iron sights and a ex-military 8mm mauser in a monte carlo style stock with a scope. im looking for a gun to shoot out no farther than but out to 500 yards. Do I scope the 06 or shoot the war era gun? Im somewhat familiar with the 30-06 balistics but really know nothing about the 8mm and how it behaves. Would I be CLEARLY better off with one or the other? input please BBall

October 2, 2002, 02:18 PM	#2
Chuck Dye Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Location: Oregon-The wet side. Posts: 949	Looking at the ammo library of the Oehler Ballistic Explorer, about the best Maximum Point Blank Range for a 6 inch vital zone with the .30-06 is the Federal High Energy catalog # P3006R. It lobs a 180 grain Nosler Partition, B.C.=0.487, at 2880fps from a 24 inch barrel, is +/- 3 inches max out to 286 yards. Sighted dead on at 300 yards, it peaks at about 5.1 inches high and is 30 inches low at 500 yards. The best long range factory 8mm Mauser load in the Oehler library is probably the Norma catalog # 18017, a 165 grain Protected Power Cavity bullet with B.C.=0.274 leaving a 24 inch barrel at 2850fps. Max point blank range for a 6 inch vital zone is 264 yards. Zeroed a t 300 yards it peaks about 6.5 inches high and is 44 inches low at 500. http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/javapagee.htm and http://internet.cybermesa.com/~jbm/b...traj/traj.html will allow you to play with the numbers. The Norma page is especially fun. __________________ Gee, I'd love to see your data!

October 4, 2002, 02:07 PM	#11
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	How's the trigger pull on the 8mm? If it's much over 4 pounds or so, the cost of a Timney trigger would be money well spent. The trigger and scope are your "fire control system" and make or break any rifle. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

October 2, 2002, 02:23 PM	#3
eroyd Member Join Date: September 13, 2002 Location: british columbia, canada Posts: 81	I seriously doubt that either of those two rifles (as are) would be accurate enough to consider taking 500m shots on small blacktails. I would probably sell both and buy a good used bolt gun in something flat shooting from 25 - 30 cal. A good quality variable scope in a 3x9 would be an advantage for those long shots.

October 2, 2002, 05:38 PM	#4
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	BBall550, we don't know how much shooting you do or have done; we don't really know the sort of country you're hunting. 500 yards is a Long Way. Out of some 50 deer I've killed over the last 35 years, one was at 350 yards; one at 450, and the rest inside of 200. Anyhow, unless you've really gotten married to the iron sights on that '06, the odds are that you'll be more likely to hit a 200-400 yard deer with the scoped 8mm. My recommendation would be to zero at 200 yards, which will put you around eight inches low at 300. (This works great for deer inside of 250 yards; you don't have to think. Just point it and pull.) Then, get a Bushnell 800 laser rangefinder, to use if Bambi looks to be Awful Far Away. And, write down the bullet drop for 350, 400, 450 and 500 yards and tape it to the stock. You can get the numbers from a Sierra reloading handbook, back in the Exterior Ballistics section. $0.02, Art

October 3, 2002, 09:35 PM	#6
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	If the scoped 8mm Mauser bolt-action shoots as good as it looks then it'd work just fine for the longer shots to 300 yards. Only way to know for sure it to take it to the range and see what you can do.

October 4, 2002, 04:03 AM	#8
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	300 yards is very doable with a decent rifle & somebody who knows what they're about. 400 yards is doable with somebody who has practiced quite a bit more & with a rifle/ammo combo that has played quite a bit more. 500 yards is beyond that quite a bit. A 760 is within that capablity IF you've put in the time, you know you ammo very well AND you have put in the time to be able to 1) first & foremost, judge the range (likely a +/- 5 feet & then, be able to have a rock-steady field condition rest to be able to ethically connect. I'd perhaps only take a 500 yard shot on a politician. Seriously. I've shot crows at well past 400 yards & a couple deer & an antelope, but it isn't something you just walk up & do. There is a bit of prep-work to get there. Somebody just buying a rifle, shooting a 1/2 box to sight it in (if that) at 100 yards, & going out to try a 500 yard shot on a deer is wasting their time, ammo & worst case, a wounded, dying deer to a slow death - & unrecovered. I'd very much suggest a much closer shot (perhaps well within 200 yards) by hunting techniques that will get you within a reasonable range. Hunting & "sniping" are two very different techniques. If you can't hunt, I'd be willing to bet the farm that you can't "snipe." No offense, & BTW, I'd pass on anything even considering anywhere near a 500 yard shot - for now.

October 4, 2002, 11:19 AM	#9
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	BBall, once it's drilled and tapped for a scope, it's just another sporterized Mauser. That was a very, very common post-WW II deal. You gotta remember that to most folks (until rather recently) those old guns were "just guns", and weren't considered as more than a good action to use to make a "real rifle". Art

October 4, 2002, 01:40 PM	#10
BBall550 Member Join Date: April 30, 2002 Location: The Valley, Orygun Posts: 79	Thanks a ton for all your input Looks like the 8mm wins the bid for now. Off to the store for ammo and then to the range for gun time. I admit 500yds would be stretching it. I was more after the limits of the rifles than myself. BBall

October 4, 2002, 05:35 PM	#12
ojibweindian Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2000 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 1,198	BBall ARt is right, there are tons of sporterized mausers out there. But, if it's any consolation, the one you have is truly beautiful!