Soft S&B small pistol primers?

jetinteriorguy · April 14, 2017, 06:11 PM

Just wondering if anyone has experienced excessive primer flow with what should be low end loads in 9mm. I'm working up a load for my JR Carbine using Power Pistol. I started at 5gr and was working up to 5.9 gr, but even at 5gr primers were showing signs of excessive pressure and at 5.2gr they were flattened with excessive flow and even the mark from the firing pin was almost completely flattened out. This is with S&B small pistol primers, so I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this. Are they just extremely soft, maybe I got a bad batch or something.

Rangerrich99 · April 14, 2017, 06:24 PM

Bearing in mind that I've only used S&B SPPs for handgun rounds, I have loaded more than 5,000 rounds with them so far without any issues. In 9mm I've only gone as high as 4.5 with Titegroup, 5.6 with CFE Pistol, and 6.5 with Power Pistol, using 115 grainers.

It does sound like you got a bad batch, but I don't have any experience loading 9mm for a rifle/carbine, so I can't help much there.

Hopefully someone else will come along and be able to give you a little better info.

ShootistPRS · April 14, 2017, 08:34 PM

With extremely light loads the primer can be forced partially out of the case and then slammed back in when the case is pushed back against the breech block under the pressure of the charge. Even though the pressures are very low it can flatten the primer and make it look very much like a sign of excessive pressure. I would increase the load to about midway between the start and maximum load to see if you get the same results.

jetinteriorguy · April 15, 2017, 11:14 AM

On further inspection I did notice that the S&B primers are all very flat when seated so maybe that's not an issue. But the primers flowed quite a ways into the firing pin hole in the breach, way more than just a little cratering. This is what had me so concerned, I didn't want to blow out a primer and mess things up in my gun. I've done a lot of loading in the last 30+ years and have never seen this before, even in my heavy .357 mag and .41 mag loads. This is also the first time I've ever used S&B primers which is why I'm wondering if it's the primers or something else I'm missing. Thanks for the food for thought, much appreciated. I think I'll try some of these primers in some of my milder loads, like my bunny fart .38 specials just to see if there is still an issue. At least if they work there I can use them up, and I'll just go to my standard CCI's for the 9mm carbine.

StumpShooter · April 15, 2017, 06:12 PM

I'm not sure about "soft primers," but I do know from reloading 9mm that the S&B primers were the easiest to de-prime ot all any I did

kerreckt · April 16, 2017, 12:50 PM

I have loaded more than 15K rounds using S&B spp. Never an issue of any kind. 38spl.,.380acp, 9mm.,40S&W, 45acp. Heavy loads or light loads, works great in all that I have loaded.

Mike38 · April 16, 2017, 03:59 PM

I bought a box (1000 pcs) of S&B primers because they were so cheap. Winchester, which I commonly use were $31 at the time. S&B were $26. Never again. They are very soft and do not press into the cases well. Winchester primers have rounded / beveled edges on the leading edge of the cup and tend to center themselves well. Not S&B. I crushed at least 3% of those loaded. Might have been my reloader (Lee) but I doubt it. None went bang, but it makes a certain part of your anatomy pucker up when you crush a primer.

mrdaputer · April 16, 2017, 04:13 PM

I have had more problems with Winchester go figure. Done over 20k of S&B

jetinteriorguy · April 18, 2017, 11:41 AM

Made it to the range today and tried the same loads using CCI SPP's and they worked much better. Minor cratering like all my standard loads do in the carbine, no primer flowing into the firing pin hole like the S&B's. I did load up some of my lighter loads with 3.2gr Clays using the S&B primers which did crater some but no more than other primers with this light load. I'm going to load up some more and try them in my pistol's and should have some good results I hope. This way I can use them up, and if they perform good I'll probably get some more for the price. So in my limited trial so far the S&B primers are definitely a softer primer but should be usable in pistols, I'll find out. But at least in my Just Right Carbine I'm going to stay away from them.

jetinteriorguy · April 19, 2017, 04:18 PM

I made it to the range and shot 50 rounds with the S&B primers using 3.2gr Clays and 124gf Acme RN HiTec coated bullets. The definitely work good in this load so at least I can use up the 2000 with no problem.

April 14, 2017, 06:11 PM	#1
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	Soft S&B small pistol primers? Just wondering if anyone has experienced excessive primer flow with what should be low end loads in 9mm. I'm working up a load for my JR Carbine using Power Pistol. I started at 5gr and was working up to 5.9 gr, but even at 5gr primers were showing signs of excessive pressure and at 5.2gr they were flattened with excessive flow and even the mark from the firing pin was almost completely flattened out. This is with S&B small pistol primers, so I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this. Are they just extremely soft, maybe I got a bad batch or something.

April 14, 2017, 06:24 PM	#2
Rangerrich99 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,254	Bearing in mind that I've only used S&B SPPs for handgun rounds, I have loaded more than 5,000 rounds with them so far without any issues. In 9mm I've only gone as high as 4.5 with Titegroup, 5.6 with CFE Pistol, and 6.5 with Power Pistol, using 115 grainers. It does sound like you got a bad batch, but I don't have any experience loading 9mm for a rifle/carbine, so I can't help much there. Hopefully someone else will come along and be able to give you a little better info.

April 14, 2017, 08:34 PM	#3
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	With extremely light loads the primer can be forced partially out of the case and then slammed back in when the case is pushed back against the breech block under the pressure of the charge. Even though the pressures are very low it can flatten the primer and make it look very much like a sign of excessive pressure. I would increase the load to about midway between the start and maximum load to see if you get the same results.

April 15, 2017, 11:14 AM	#4
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	On further inspection I did notice that the S&B primers are all very flat when seated so maybe that's not an issue. But the primers flowed quite a ways into the firing pin hole in the breach, way more than just a little cratering. This is what had me so concerned, I didn't want to blow out a primer and mess things up in my gun. I've done a lot of loading in the last 30+ years and have never seen this before, even in my heavy .357 mag and .41 mag loads. This is also the first time I've ever used S&B primers which is why I'm wondering if it's the primers or something else I'm missing. Thanks for the food for thought, much appreciated. I think I'll try some of these primers in some of my milder loads, like my bunny fart .38 specials just to see if there is still an issue. At least if they work there I can use them up, and I'll just go to my standard CCI's for the 9mm carbine.

April 15, 2017, 06:12 PM	#5
StumpShooter Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Posts: 44	I'm not sure about "soft primers," but I do know from reloading 9mm that the S&B primers were the easiest to de-prime ot all any I did

April 16, 2017, 12:50 PM	#6
kerreckt Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2011 Location: SE VA. Posts: 216	I have loaded more than 15K rounds using S&B spp. Never an issue of any kind. 38spl.,.380acp, 9mm.,40S&W, 45acp. Heavy loads or light loads, works great in all that I have loaded.

April 16, 2017, 03:59 PM	#7
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	I bought a box (1000 pcs) of S&B primers because they were so cheap. Winchester, which I commonly use were $31 at the time. S&B were $26. Never again. They are very soft and do not press into the cases well. Winchester primers have rounded / beveled edges on the leading edge of the cup and tend to center themselves well. Not S&B. I crushed at least 3% of those loaded. Might have been my reloader (Lee) but I doubt it. None went bang, but it makes a certain part of your anatomy pucker up when you crush a primer.

April 16, 2017, 04:13 PM	#8
mrdaputer Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2013 Posts: 493	I have had more problems with Winchester go figure. Done over 20k of S&B

April 18, 2017, 11:41 AM	#9
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	Made it to the range today and tried the same loads using CCI SPP's and they worked much better. Minor cratering like all my standard loads do in the carbine, no primer flowing into the firing pin hole like the S&B's. I did load up some of my lighter loads with 3.2gr Clays using the S&B primers which did crater some but no more than other primers with this light load. I'm going to load up some more and try them in my pistol's and should have some good results I hope. This way I can use them up, and if they perform good I'll probably get some more for the price. So in my limited trial so far the S&B primers are definitely a softer primer but should be usable in pistols, I'll find out. But at least in my Just Right Carbine I'm going to stay away from them.

April 19, 2017, 04:18 PM	#10
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	I made it to the range and shot 50 rounds with the S&B primers using 3.2gr Clays and 124gf Acme RN HiTec coated bullets. The definitely work good in this load so at least I can use up the 2000 with no problem.