Misfire question

jonnefudge · April 16, 2017, 08:27 AM

Hello guys,
I have been trying out a light load to my marlin 1895. It's a 45-70, lee 340gr cast, 36gr norma 200, CCI 200lr. I have shot about 15 rounds and it's worked great except for the tenth round or so which didn't go off right away. It was like: CLICK, a delay for about 0.5-1 sec, Boom, the shot went off. Felt wierd like the powder took some time to ignite or something like that. All the other rounds went off perfectly. Do i need a magnum primer, more powder? What could it be?

Some pics on the load and crimp is attached.

/Fudge

Stats Shooter · April 16, 2017, 08:36 AM

What you experienced was/is actually called a hangfire, not a misfire. A misfire doesn't ever go off. A hangfire is delayed ignition.

However hangfires and misfires can be caused by the exact same issues. Old powder, bad primers, incorrect primers, primers not seated properly just to name a few.

It could have just been a bad primer and nothing you did. 1 observed failure doesn't warrant a re-vist to your method (provided you didn't forget powder or something like that)

Do not change anything until you have more observations

ShootistPRS · April 16, 2017, 09:12 AM

A hang fire from a light load is a sign that the powder is not igniting properly, is too slow burning for your application or it is position sensitive.
Switch to a faster burning powder for your reduced loads.

random guy · April 16, 2017, 09:18 AM

Looks like you are way below Norma's starting charge although that is for jacketed bullets. Your charge may be OK for cast...but it's not really looking good so far. They do recommend a magnum primer as well.

mulespurs · April 16, 2017, 09:22 AM

I know this sounds dumb, but if you cases are not dry inside you can have hangfires. Found that out in my duck hunting days. Picking cases out of the water and not drying thoroughly and loading for the next day. Then you could get bloopers.

Chainsaw. · April 16, 2017, 10:34 AM

36 grains seems like an awfully small charge for the volumous 45-70 case. I'd either up the charge or find a differnt powder.

**Unclenick** · April 16, 2017, 11:12 AM

Jonnefudge,

Per your other post, you are using this powder at way below its design pressure range so ignition problems are not surprising. You have just taught yourself that going way outside of manual recommendations causes safety issues. Follow my suggestion from the other post to shift to 16.5 grains of Unique, and you will get the same velocity and none of the problems.

jonnefudge · April 16, 2017, 11:27 AM

Thanks for the answers, great knowledge as always!

April 16, 2017, 09:22 AM	#5
mulespurs Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Posts: 115	Possibility I know this sounds dumb, but if you cases are not dry inside you can have hangfires. Found that out in my duck hunting days. Picking cases out of the water and not drying thoroughly and loading for the next day. Then you could get bloopers.

April 16, 2017, 10:34 AM	#6
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	36 grains seems like an awfully small charge for the volumous 45-70 case. I'd either up the charge or find a differnt powder. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

April 16, 2017, 11:12 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Jonnefudge, Per your other post, you are using this powder at way below its design pressure range so ignition problems are not surprising. You have just taught yourself that going way outside of manual recommendations causes safety issues. Follow my suggestion from the other post to shift to 16.5 grains of Unique, and you will get the same velocity and none of the problems. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 16, 2017, 11:27 AM	#8
jonnefudge Member Join Date: November 20, 2016 Posts: 76	Thanks for the answers, great knowledge as always! Last edited by jonnefudge; April 16, 2017 at 11:32 AM.

April 16, 2017, 08:36 AM	#2
Stats Shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2016 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,636	What you experienced was/is actually called a hangfire, not a misfire. A misfire doesn't ever go off. A hangfire is delayed ignition. However hangfires and misfires can be caused by the exact same issues. Old powder, bad primers, incorrect primers, primers not seated properly just to name a few. It could have just been a bad primer and nothing you did. 1 observed failure doesn't warrant a re-vist to your method (provided you didn't forget powder or something like that) Do not change anything until you have more observations

April 16, 2017, 09:12 AM	#3
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	A hang fire from a light load is a sign that the powder is not igniting properly, is too slow burning for your application or it is position sensitive. Switch to a faster burning powder for your reduced loads.

April 16, 2017, 09:18 AM	#4
random guy Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2017 Posts: 272	Looks like you are way below Norma's starting charge although that is for jacketed bullets. Your charge may be OK for cast...but it's not really looking good so far. They do recommend a magnum primer as well.