Selling or Trading Advice Please

[travmantoo]

I have a Ruger Speed six .357 snub nose (I acquired it in a multiple gun trade for a boat from a guy and his police officer wife. It had been her service piece which she legally transferred to me). I would like to sell it at a fair price or trade for a slightly smaller cal semi. I once brought it to Gander Mountain who gave me a ridiculously low offer. How should I go about finding a fair deal in either selling or trading?

[rock185]

The best way that I know of is by use of an internet auction site, such as Gun Broker,etc.

[Walt Sherrill]

If you can do a private transaction -- a trade or sale -- you'll always come out way ahead (in the case of most guns, maybe several hundred $$ ahead).

I don't know about your state's laws, but in many states sales or trades can be done between individuals (who are residents of the state) without getting an FFL involved. That is the case here in NC, if the buyer has a purchase permit or a concealed carry license. Then you just follow the requirements of state law. And keep records -- like who you sold it to, etc. It is important, however, that you educate yourself about the laws and their requirements. That typically isn't hard... and a GOOGLE search will often get you what you need to know. STATE LAW is the issue, if you're selling to a resident. Here in NC, it's all explained in the General Statutes {under Criminal Law) which can be accessed on line.

If you can't do that (a private sale/trade) or don't feel comfortable selling/trading yourself, you can do the transfer or trades at any gun shop or FFL. Most pawnshop, gunsmiths, and gun dealers can handle the transfer. Check around before hand to see what different FFLs charge for a transfer.) If you must pay an FFL for the transfer, you can decide whether you expect the buyer to pay the FFL fee, whether you'll split it, or include it in your sale price (by raising the price slightly.

Advertising the gun on forums like this -- with pictures -- helps, and can often get you quick results. As for price -- check websites like Gun Broker or Gunauction.com, to get an idea of a good price your what you're selling. The Ruger Speed Six and Security Six are well-regarded handguns, so you shouldn't have problems finding a buyer.

[j357]

You can find asking prices on gun broker and if you sign up for an account you can search past completed sale prices. There are a few other similar sites too.

[TXAZ]

Not sure what state you're in, that can make a difference.

Gunbroker is a national site but you can also use Backpage.com, more local, but you have to be careful and make sure you're not a sitting duck when you meet the person. Some police stations will let you do the exchange there.

YMMV by state.

[travmantoo]

Thanks for the helpful info! I live in the Peoples Republic of Minnesota; but actually, we have far better gun laws than some states. I will get educated more on our laws.

[carguychris]

If you sell on Gunbroker (GB for short), Gunauction, etc., I would strongly recommend finding a local FFL to ship the gun for you. It's against federal law for an unlicensed individual to ship a handgun via the U.S. mail; although UPS and FedEx will ship it, you have to use their expensive Next Day Air services and drop off the firearm at a company-operated hub*, which may be a serious hassle if you live in a rural area. OTOH an FFL may lawfully use the U.S. mail, and most handguns will fit in the Priority Mail "Medium" Flat Rate Box and ship for under $30 insured. (This is all covered in more detail in the "How to ship firearms" sticky under "General Discussion.") Even though you'll pay $10-$25 for the transfer, you'll probably come out ahead.

The other related complication is that not all FFLs are willing to accept guns shipped by a non-FFL. Although no federal law expressly prohibits an FFL from accepting such a shipment, federal law DOES prescribe certain record-keeping requirements whenever a firearm is taken into inventory by an FFL, and many FFLs don't want to deal with the hassles that ensue when the shipper's information is incomplete, illegible, or missing. There's also the issue of being left holding the bag if the gun turns out to be stolen or illegally modified. The lesson here is to check with the destination FFL BEFORE shipping the handgun, or (as is my preference) simply avert the entire issue by having a local FFL ship for you.

Lastly, if you go through an FFL on your end, state laws and permits are a non-issue. The destination FFL takes care of all that.

I would strongly recommend selling online. As discussed by Walt Sherrill, there is strong demand for the Speed Six among Ruger enthusiasts because the company hasn't offered anything directly comparable in years; however, a local shop may be hesitant to take it because there's no guarantee that one of those enthusiasts will show up quickly, so the gun may take a while to sell.

*Footnote: Contrary to what is implied by their name, strip-mall "UPS Store" locations are independently-owned franchises and NOT company operations; as such, they are not supposed to handle firearms.

[5whiskey]

Gunbroker is a national site but you can also use Backpage.com

... I'm just throwing this out there, but I wouldn't sell a firearm to someone who frequents backpage (a website well known for prostitution advertising). Armslist would be a better local classified alternative.

[Tom-R2]

I've heard, but have not verified this, but someone recently said that if they drop off a firearm at a gunstore for them to sell it on consignment, if it doesn't sell and you want it back, you need to fill out the federal ATF forms to get it back. It's not a problem as far as being legally allowed to possess it, but the fact that it creates a paper trail, and may involve a cost just to take possession of your firearm back. I would ask about that if you would decide to let a gunstore attempt to sell it for you.

[ligonierbill]

On GB, if you go to the Advanced search and hit the Completed Items tab, you can find out what guns like yours have actually sold for. Many of the auctions end with no bids because the minimum or reserve is too high. But I agree it's the way to go. I sold a rifle on GB a couple months ago - no problems, and the site is fairly user friendly.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by carguychris

If you sell on Gunbroker (GB for short), Gunauction, etc., I would strongly recommend finding a local FFL to ship the gun for you. It's against federal law for an unlicensed individual to ship a handgun via the U.S. mail; although UPS and FedEx will ship it, you have to use their expensive Next Day Air services and drop off the firearm at a company-operated hub*, which may be a serious hassle if you live in a rural area.

Good point. But be sure the FFL you use does use the US Mail -- Some FFLs consider it a hassle, as their postman isn't always set up to handle firearms. (One FFL I used to work with had a post office within easy walking distance, so it was a no-brainer for him.)

Some FFLs will pass on the shipping cost and charge their transfer fee, too... that can be a wash or cheaper IF the FFL uses the postal system, or an extra expense if they don't. (My current FFL is a locksmith and gunsmith, and he can't shut down his shop to go to the post-office until after the P.O. is closed. He can and will drop by a UPS hub on his way home.)

[ShootistPRS]

In most places you can sell a gun on consignment without transferring it to the dealer. It is treated like a gun repair until the sale takes place. Now, with all the funcky laws being passed about how you define a transfer It might be different in your state but in Washington state The FFL can take possession without a transfer taking place until the sale when he fills out the paperwork. If the FFL buys the gun from you then paperwork has to be filled out.
That is the way it works in Washington.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Walt Sherrill

Some FFLs will pass on the shipping cost and charge their transfer fee, too... that can be a wash or cheaper IF the FFL uses the postal system, or an extra expense if they don't.

It's worth noting that, unlike with the U.S. mail, being an FFL doesn't automatically result in special privileges regarding UPS or FedEx handgun shipment; AFAIK they still have to use Next Day Air. Some FFLs can get cheaper rates than an unlicensed individual by virtue of having a commercial account, but it's usually still more expensive than the Priority Mail Flat Rate Box.

One other complication with UPS and FedEx is that their rates are substantially higher between the CONUS and AK or HI. This is why you'll see a few GB auctions that either place shipping-cost disclaimers on AK/HI sales, or simply disallow such sales.

Originally Posted by ShootistPRS

In most places you can sell a gun on consignment without transferring it to the dealer. It is treated like a gun repair until the sale takes place. Now, with all the funcky laws being passed about how you define a transfer It might be different in your state...

Actually, it's different most places in the United States where the FFL is interpreting federal law the usual way.

The laws about transfers really aren't that "funcky" [sic]—if you leave a firearm with an FFL, it's considered a transfer, and the FFL is required to log the firearm into his or her bound book. Possession is the key factor, not ownership. When the firearm is given back, the FFL is required to log it back out AND execute a 4473, UNLESS the firearm was transferred to the FFL "for the sole purpose of repair or customizing," in which case the 4473 isn't required [27 CFR § 478.124(a)] although the logbook entry still is.

It sounds like the FFL(s?) under discussion is (are?) using an—ahem—creative interpretation of the exemption, i.e. pretending that firearms in the consignment case with price tags on them are there "for the sole purpose of repair or customizing." The ATF may have some choice words to say to them about this sham should they ever find out about it.

FWIW my LGS makes me sign a form acknowledging that a firearm I place on consignment can't be given back to me without a 4473, and should I try to retrieve it and fail the NICS check or be unable to present a TX LTC, it's my problem and not theirs. Although I've never personally pawned a firearm, I've been told of similar paperwork at pawn shops.

More discussion of "repair and customizing" can be found here.