One's got to wonder: Why no single stack Glock 9mm?

[dyl]

It could be a marketing presence thing. I went to a conference once where someone read a quote by the CEO of Chik-fil-A. Over the years he had no doubt been flooded by ideas to branch out and go in different directions. He would say, "we do chicken"

Glock could branch out but perhaps it would dilute what they are famous for rather than focusing on 1 (or fewer) things and doing it well. Having the iconic "block" might almost be an advertisement in itself. Easily recognizable and gets plenty of media coverage whether good or bad. We're debating it right now aren't we? I bet sales are doing just fine.

[btmj]

A lot of the issues these days is that no one really wants to dress around the gun and wants the impossible from their carry sidearm

Yep, that is right... that is exactly what I want. My ideal concealed carry pistol is a 16 round capacity 45 ACP that is the size of a Beretta bobcat 25 ACP, and has the recoil characteristics of a 22 cal K-frame SW.... and costs $300.

Well shucks, I can't get my ideal pistol... but I can get a small 9mm that is about the same size as the 380 pistols which were made from 1970 - 1995 or so... before the advent of the micro-380s...

Guns like the various Kahrs, the PPS, Sig P290 and P938, LC9, etc... they serve a very valuable niche.

For the record, I love my PPS... Other than the German style trigger guard/paddle mag release, it is very glock-like... except that it disappears into an IWB holster.

[fire4606]

"Hi, its September 2013, fyi.. I'm glad something designed back in the 80s and 90s is ok I guess... 1980 is 33 years ago. More than 1/4 of a century. Hopefully design can evolve a little?

To me a single stack is about ergonomics, and concealment... But really: ergonomics!!! 9mm is about availability and cost, and recoil.. If I felt 45 was a better fit for me, I might not have made the thread"

Guess it flew right over your head, the point I thought was for personal protection, the point when carrying 9mm's became popular was that its a marginal cartridge for this purpose, with the trade off/advantage of 9mm being capacity.

Guess you weren't around then huh....or maybe you're carrying for fun or actually believe that all cartridges are created equal right?

Or maybe I was just providing another option as to why glock, whom came in with the emerging popularity of the 9mm as a self defense round would consider going with less of an arguably marginal round is a step back, not forward. Which was the original question.

[Justice06RR]

Originally Posted by Rbid

Yes, and Jessica Biel is obese, because she's wider than anorexic 13 year olds.

At something like .95" at the grip, the Shield is skinnier than everything. If I roll out a pic of a 26 next to a Desert Eagle, that doesn't make the 26 any thinner, either. The facts are that the Glock 9/40 frame pistols have a blocky shape, which many people try to explain as width. I have no issue with people disliking them. I just think people get into this "I feel X way about it, so the trigger is the best/worst on the market, and it has the most/least comfortable grip I've ever felt!" stuff, and I find it silly.

Then again, it's silly for me to have taken the time to type this out, but here it is!

Yes, thats quite silly actually. Comparing Jessica Biel to skinny 13yr old's is just silly. That's apples and oranges. And Jessica is not obese...

We're not talking about people here, we're talking about handguns. A pistol thats 0.9inch is much thinner compared to one that is 1.1inch. If you've ever held a Glock30 and a Glock36 you'd immediately know and feel the physical difference between the 2.

A single stack handgun makes complete sense; why do you think 1911's are so popular??? Considering most SD situations require 6rounds or less, a handgun with 6+1 capacity is enough for most cases (of course carrying spare mags is always recommended). The reasoning for a slim single-stack pistol is compactness and concealability. If you can't get that through your head, then I don't know what to tell you. Not everyone needs to drive a Full-size V8 pickup when a 4dr sedan will do...

Why Glock hasn't come out with a single-stack 9mm is their business and their decision. I'm sure its not a priority for them seeing the high demand for their pistols already. I would agree that their designs are dated though; this is the 21st century and many other manufacturers have come out with new single-stack 9's and 40's. Glock is probably not concerned enough to worry about that though because they're products sell like pancakes

[RBid]

Yes, thats quite silly actually. Comparing Jessica Biel to skinny 13yr old's is just silly. That's apples and oranges. And Jessica is not obese...

We're not talking about people here, we're talking about handguns. A pistol thats 0.9inch is much thinner compared to one that is 1.1inch. If you've ever held a Glock30 and a Glock36 you'd immediately know and feel the physical difference between the 2.

A single stack handgun makes complete sense; why do you think 1911's are so popular??? Considering most SD situations require 6rounds or less, a handgun with 6+1 capacity is enough for most cases (of course carrying spare mags is always recommended). The reasoning for a slim single-stack pistol is compactness and concealability. If you can't get that through your head, then I don't know what to tell you. Not everyone needs to drive a Full-size V8 pickup when a 4dr sedan will do...

Why Glock hasn't come out with a single-stack 9mm is their business and their decision. I'm sure its not a priority for them seeing the high demand for their pistols already. I would agree that their designs are dated though; this is the 21st century and many other manufacturers have come out with new single-stack 9's and 40's. Glock is probably not concerned enough to worry about that though because they're products sell like pancakes

What we have here is a failure to communicate. Some of the things that you are attempting to "pound into my head" are things that I have already stated IN THIS THREAD. Among other things, I have pointed out that A) I appreciate that deep concealment is a valid purpose for single stack subcompacts, and B) single stack, service .45s make sense, C) I already made the important points from your final paragraph, in post #4 of this thread.


To help you understand where I'm coming from, I'm going to clarify some points like this:

When I'm choosing a carry weapon, this is my filter:

"If I have to shoot to live, what do I want to be holding? How close to that ideal can I carry?"

That filter has lead me to this place:

I carry the most capable firearm that I can commit to carrying every day.

In contrast, a LOT of people prioritize "small", and settle on a firearm that is not ideal for rapidly putting hits on target (commonly, extremely light/snappy firearms with excessive trigger travel, among other issues), low capacity, etc.


Again, I absolutely understand that deep concealment is required for many people, in many situations. I appreciate the value of a single stack subcompact in those circumstances, and it makes sense to me when guys have an EDC and also a deep concealment option as a 2-gun carry rotation. Something is better than nothing, but having "something" shouldn't be the goal. The goal should be to have the best possible option for the worst possible situation.

[Psychedelic Bang]

I joined this forum just to ad some information as to why no single stack Glock in 9mm.

....

Looks like the G 26 is the smallest it is ever going to get and based on their data of G26/27 sales, the 26/27 is the most popular conceal carry pistol ever to be designed, produced or sold world wide.

Thanks for your post. Very good.

[jimbob86]

Yes, and Jessica Biel is obese, because she's wider than anorexic 13 year olds.

Jessica Who?

[K31Scout]

Yes, Glock is making tons of guns already and selling them all. They should still consider what their customers want. Cater to the customer is the mantra they should be chanting. Who cares what they want to make. Make what the public wants. Good business practice 101. And it's obvious that .90 wide single stack pistols are what the competition can't build fast enough to satisfy the demand.

[amd6547]

If they made a single stack nine, they would probably sell them...but not to me. I am perfectly satisfied with my G26. I find easy to carry IWB, 100% reliable, and accurate beyond what it's size would make you believe.
And, I like having a 10-or 12rd mag in it with a 15rd mag for a reload...a compact bundle of firepower that shoots like a full sized pistol.
There really is no other pistol I own I would want in my hand if I needed to defend myself.

[btmj]

They should still consider what their customers want. Cater to the customer is the mantra they should be chanting. Who cares what they want to make. Make what the public wants. Good business practice 101.

Well, with all due respect, I have to disagree with that statement. A comapany "should" make products for which there is or will be a demand... considering the existing market... in other words, considering all the other similar products that would be competing for the same potential buyers.

My sister loves her Hyundai car and her Hyundai min-SUV... she would love to buy a Huyundai pickup truck. She needs a truck, but she is going to look at Ford, GM, Dodge... 'cause that's who makes 'em...

VW does not make trucks or convertible sports cars. Ford does not make motorcycles. Boeing does not make 8 passenger business jets. Apple does not make Android phones.

HK does not make a large frame hunting revolver in 454 Casull. Remington does not make any handgun except for a 1911. Weatherby does not make any handgun at all. Kahr does not make a high capacity striker fired service pistol. Ruger does not make a lever-action rifle. Sako does not make an AR-15. SIG does not make an over-under shotgun.

A firearms manufacturer will enter a new market if they think they can be competitive... either a better product than the competition at the same price, or an equivalent product at a lower price.

So why, exactly, is it mysterious, or unusual, that Glock does not make a single stack pistol ?

[Sharpsdressed Man]

Unless you need .45, the Walther PPS in 9mm and .40 would fill the void calling for a Glock-like semi in single stack. Some people might even declare the PPS superior to the Glock. I have one in 9mm and it is a very sweet handling gun.

[btmj]

Agree... I am a long-time Glock shooter, and I really like my PPS.

[pat701]

Because Sig make a P239

[K31Scout]

A firearms manufacturer will enter a new market if they think they can be competitive... either a better product than the competition at the same price, or an equivalent product at a lower price.

I'll bet they are working a design furiously in the secret Austrian backroom. I agree the problems may be the making a better, competitively priced product for them. But they are Glock and have the name recognition and people will chose them for that alone. Let's see some innovation. Look at Smith&Wesson and Ruger and Springfield; if they managed to build a small thin powerful pistol and make money then certainly Glock can.

[ClydeFrog]

That is a bold statement to say the Glock 26 9mm(9x19mm) & 27(.40S&W) is the most widely used/sold semi auto concealment/carry pistol.
Not to split hairs, but Id say the S&W J frame .38spl revolver is the most widely used, purchased or carry firearm: worldwide.
Now you can compare a revolver to a semi-auto pistol & say they are different categories but overall, I doubt the Glock 26/27 is the most used weapon, worldwide.

A few years ago, gun writer & use-of-force expert: Massad Ayoob wrote about speaking to the CEO of Smith & Wesson. Ayoob asked what S&W sold the most. The chairman said; the J frame Chiefs Special was still, by far, the biggest seller.

ClydeFrog

[rs97]

Jessica Who?

If you don’t know, you are either WAY too young or WAY too old.

[tipoc]

From Theohazard:

You're right that Glock hasn't been very innovative recently, but considering they were innovative enough in the 80's and 90's to dethrone revolvers from the LE market and create the modern striker-fired polymer-framed design that a majority of LE agencies around the country use and everyone and their mother copies, I guess I'll give them a pass for their current lack of innovation.

Just a small point but an important one. The first batch of Glocks arrived in the U.S. in 1986. By that time the U.S. military had decided on the Beretta M9 as it's new sidearm and the after effects of the Miami shootout accelerated the transition to pistols. These were the years of the wondernines that preceded the emergence of Glocks in the U.S. The transition from wheelguns to semis and the 9mm was well underway. By the beginning of the 1990s the Beretta and Third Gen S&Ws were the dominant semis in the hands of law enforcement. You may recall that in 1990 when S&W and Winchester debut the 40S&W they had already sold a ton of their 9mm and 45acp handguns to law enforcement and had a run with the 10mm. Glock loaded the 40 S&W in their 9mm guns in a rapid move and had some problems but sold a ton to law enforcement.

Glock did not dethrone the revolver in law enforcement. It dethroned the steel framed semi in law enforcement. They forced their competition to develop their own polymers framed guns. Some are superior designs to the Glock in my opinion and in the opinion of others.

tipoc

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by tipoc

Glock did not dethrone the revolver in law enforcement. It dethroned the steel framed semi in law enforcement.

Fair enough. But it definitely helped dethrone the revolver in law enforcement; there are many law enforcement agencies (including some in major cities) that switched from revolvers to Glocks.

Originally Posted by tipoc

They forced their competition to develop their own polymers framed guns. Some are superior designs to the Glock in my opinion and in the opinion of others.

My only point is that the Glock was a truly revolutionary pistol. Whatever people may think about it, Gaston Glock changed the modern handgun market with both his design and his marketing strategy.

[ClydeFrog]

As Im often fond of saying; "We learn from history, that we don't learn from history."
Post #96 is spot on about the Glocks & events in the USA.
Some gun owners & firearm enthusiasts leave out gaps in the US history of firearms/weapon R&D.
The "wonder-nines" were brought out by need to improve/increase the firepower of sworn LE agencies and cops who had to face off against drug gangs/thugs in the USA. In Europe, the increase in terrorist activity & police related lethal force events led to the R&D of high-cap 9x19mm sidearms(like the HK P7m13, the GB20, the SIG P226, the P88, & the 92F models).
Traditional steel or alloy frame pistols were in wide use first. The Beretta 92F(and later the 96 .40), the SIG Sauer P226/P228 9mm & the 3rd gen S&W 5900 line became the "must have" years before the Glock 17.
The Glock started to gain support in the early 1990s as working cops & unions pushed for better weapons. The increased interest in the "new" .40S&W caliber led to the popularity of the Glock 22/23/35/27 models.
The tragic 1986 FBI/Platt-Matix event wasn't really a big issue for Glocks, .
The demand for a robust, low cost, easy to clean pistol was Glock's bread & butter early on.
For a few years, the AK State Troopers, who picked the Glock 21 .45acp as a sidearm, had Robar Guns, www.robarguns.com convert the grip frame to reduce the gap & improve the hold with thick winter gloves.

In 2013, the Glocks have really taken hold of the US gun buying public & sworn LE but the history isn't as some claim...

Clyde

[tipoc]

From Theo:

My only point is that the Glock was a truly revolutionary pistol. Whatever people may think about it, Gaston Glock changed the modern handgun market with both his design and his marketing strategy.

I agree with that. But Clyde Frogs point about the history is important. When Glocks first appeared S&W, then the major U.S. supplier of semi autos to law enforcement, ignored them and did not consider the gun a threat to their market share. They did not think a plastic gun would catch on. But by 1991 S&W was hurting. (Not just from Glock of course.)

In early 1991 the president of S&W at the time, Steve Melvin, called a meeting of S&W engineers. He got angry at their footdragging on designing a polymer gun. He slammed a Glock 19 on the table and shouted, "If you can't build a better handgun than the Glock, then copy the motherxxxxxx!" They did and Glock sued them.

Just on why Glock does not have a single stack 9mm while some other manufacturers of polymer guns do:

It may have something to do with the magazines. As I recall Glock mags have steel inserts around which polymer is wrapped, the thickness of the polymer helps make the mags rigid. Other manufacturers use all steel mags which are actually slimmer and the steel is rigid and strong without the same bulk as the Glock.

Glock also uses plastic mag release and retention buttons. For Glock to go to a single stack 9 would require either significant mods to the magazines. If they went to all steel mags they would need to replace the mag release and retention button for a steel one that would not be chewed up under long term recoil.

I'm no expert on Glocks but this looks like part of the answer to me.

tipoc

[Pond, James Pond]

Earlier on in this thread I asked what the point/benefit of a single stack was, considering the size the likes of the G19/26 etc.

Well, today I came a step closer to understanding. I had a look at a second hand Spanish made Astra A-70. It is a single stack 8+1, SA, all-steel pistol and I loved it.
As it happens I can't buy it, but I was really, really, really impressed.

Nice feel, very comfortable grip (IMHO, similar to a 1911 in shape, width, angle etc), sweet trigger and deliciously short, crisp reset. It was very pointable. Pushing it out ahead of me, eyes closed. Open eyes and all 3 dots were there, lined up and nudging my target beyond. Everything I've read about them says the owners were very satisfied indeed.

So, if any of you can risk some difficulty in finding mags (although this place does sell them) I would recommend, nay insist, you have a feel of one if the opportunity comes your way. Steel is starting to grow on me...
If you buy it, don't tell me, please....