What went wrong? - Page 2

Yellowfin · October 9, 2007, 09:07 AM

There's no perfect result in any scenario like this, I suppose, but somehow I just can't wrap my head around the situation not having a possibly better result. Training? Preparedness? There's almost always more that can be done there. It certainly seems like the bad guy had prepared a lot more than they had.

MisterPX · October 9, 2007, 07:10 PM

Complacency kills.

Kruniac · October 11, 2007, 10:43 AM

That wasnt an assassination. Chest shots arent assassinations with a "Defensive" caliber. It was a robbery in which the guy wanted to follow in the footsteps of so many old school criminals who simply wasted the cops, no matter the situation.

An assassination would have been walk up, one in the head, the other in the face. Still, the fact that the perp walked 700 feet seems off to me. The "guard" partner couldn't have been scanning the area for threats. While I admit it may be difficult to identify a threat in a crowd of people, its not as difficult to identify a pistol being drawn/held and that particular person heading directly for you.

...It also rubs me the wrong way that "he didnt get away with much money." What, if he got five million dollars it would have been better?

BillCA · October 12, 2007, 02:15 PM

You have to remember that there are blind spots for the driver and he can't always pay attention to someone 100, 200 or more feet away when others are closer.

It is difficult to maintain 100% alertness and scope out every person as a potential threat every single day. Especially when things are deemed "low risk" -- such as loading an ATM in an area with video surveillance and where there are many witnesses.

Chalk this one up to bad Karma... the driver missed the approaching perp (was he scoping out the hot babe leaving the store?), the watching guard was distracted by the argument he had with his wife last night, the guy loading the ATM missed his 2nd cup of coffee that morning... whatever.

Don P · October 13, 2007, 12:51 PM

BillCA, how or where or who informed you the ATM service is DEEMED LOW RISK? Have you done or are doing this for a living? ATM service puts us at the most risk for the following reason, this is where we spend more time being exposed to the dangers that lurk. In and out of customer locations is much faster in comparison to servicing ATM'S and your focus is on your surrondings and not pulling double duty. I.m not looking for a flame war and we all are entitled to our opinions on this matter. I personaly feel there is NO ASPECT OF A ARMED SERVICE TECHNICIAN'S DAILY DUTY THAT IS LOW RISK! 30 stops today puts me at risk 60 times for a possible hold up, shot at, whatever the case. Sorry but I do not see any of this as LOW RISK.

Night Watch · October 18, 2007, 05:06 PM

It's NOT the real world. It's NOT Pennsylvania. It's Philadelphia!

Ain't nothing low risk about that entire socialist Hell-hole of a city! It runs on welfare. The jails have revolving doors; up to half the city's permanent residents are on either probation or parole, and between prison sentences.

The only honest definition for the occupation of any money courier working in that city would have to be high risk - very high risk!

(I know I wouldn't do it.)

October 12, 2007, 02:15 PM	#29
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	You have to remember that there are blind spots for the driver and he can't always pay attention to someone 100, 200 or more feet away when others are closer. It is difficult to maintain 100% alertness and scope out every person as a potential threat every single day. Especially when things are deemed "low risk" -- such as loading an ATM in an area with video surveillance and where there are many witnesses. Chalk this one up to bad Karma... the driver missed the approaching perp (was he scoping out the hot babe leaving the store?), the watching guard was distracted by the argument he had with his wife last night, the guy loading the ATM missed his 2nd cup of coffee that morning... whatever. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

October 13, 2007, 12:51 PM	#30
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Curiosity has the best of me BillCA, how or where or who informed you the ATM service is DEEMED LOW RISK? Have you done or are doing this for a living? ATM service puts us at the most risk for the following reason, this is where we spend more time being exposed to the dangers that lurk. In and out of customer locations is much faster in comparison to servicing ATM'S and your focus is on your surrondings and not pulling double duty. I.m not looking for a flame war and we all are entitled to our opinions on this matter. I personaly feel there is NO ASPECT OF A ARMED SERVICE TECHNICIAN'S DAILY DUTY THAT IS LOW RISK! 30 stops today puts me at risk 60 times for a possible hold up, shot at, whatever the case. Sorry but I do not see any of this as LOW RISK. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

October 18, 2007, 05:06 PM	#31
Night Watch Registration in progress Join Date: June 30, 2005 Posts: 369	It's NOT the real world. It's NOT Pennsylvania. It's Philadelphia! Ain't nothing low risk about that entire socialist Hell-hole of a city! It runs on welfare. The jails have revolving doors; up to half the city's permanent residents are on either probation or parole, and between prison sentences. The only honest definition for the occupation of any money courier working in that city would have to be high risk - very high risk! (I know I wouldn't do it.) __________________ 'Things go wrong. The odds catch up. Probability is like gravity; and, you cannot negotiate with gravity. One other thing: God always has the last laugh. You need to remember that!'

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October 9, 2007, 09:07 AM	#26
Yellowfin Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: Lancaster Co, PA Posts: 2,311	There's no perfect result in any scenario like this, I suppose, but somehow I just can't wrap my head around the situation not having a possibly better result. Training? Preparedness? There's almost always more that can be done there. It certainly seems like the bad guy had prepared a lot more than they had.

October 9, 2007, 07:10 PM	#27
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	Complacency kills.

October 11, 2007, 10:43 AM	#28
Kruniac Member Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 44	That wasnt an assassination. Chest shots arent assassinations with a "Defensive" caliber. It was a robbery in which the guy wanted to follow in the footsteps of so many old school criminals who simply wasted the cops, no matter the situation. An assassination would have been walk up, one in the head, the other in the face. Still, the fact that the perp walked 700 feet seems off to me. The "guard" partner couldn't have been scanning the area for threats. While I admit it may be difficult to identify a threat in a crowd of people, its not as difficult to identify a pistol being drawn/held and that particular person heading directly for you. ...It also rubs me the wrong way that "he didnt get away with much money." What, if he got five million dollars it would have been better?