Ciener kit for m16 or dedicated upper?

Rant Casey · September 27, 2008, 01:22 PM

I'm not really a big fan of shooting .22lr out of anything, but ammo is expensive and my m16 is actually costing me more in ammo than the gun itsself. I was thinking of getting a ciener kit to help the cost a bit, I love shooting 5.56 but lets be honest, the water jugs and cans i'm shooting can't tell the difference. Now my question is, do they have a m16 kit that's readilly availible, I've only seen the ar 15 ones?

Also, I'm going to be shooting this quite a bit, should I just go with a dedicated upper from spikes tactical? I don't want to burn a few thousand rounds through the kit (that would be in 2 days max) and have to replace everything.

Ridge_Runner_5 · September 27, 2008, 03:03 PM

I have a Ciener kit on the way, myself...not only is it cheaper to shoot, but it lets me into more ranges around here that dont allow rifle calibers...and indoor ranges will be very useful in a month or two when the snow starts falling...

ogree · September 27, 2008, 06:04 PM

check out CMMG, they are now offering a 22 conversion unit for the AR and may have the M-16 unit as well.

AMX · September 27, 2008, 09:40 PM

I have both, a KPF dedicated upper and a Ciener kit. For an M16 shooting water jugs and cans, a kit will do fine. A dedicated upper with a real 1-16" twist will shoot a tighter group, but it doesn't sound like thats what you're looking for.

I use my conversion kit a lot more than my KPF upper.

Rant Casey · October 5, 2008, 03:33 PM

Is the cmmg better quality than the ciener kit? Replacement parts availible? Firing pin etc..

VUPDblue · October 5, 2008, 05:39 PM

The CMMG and the Spike's kit are IDENTICAL copies of the Ciener kit. The Spike's kit is hard-nickel plated, and I don't know about the CMMG as they have not started shipping yet. I have a Spike's dedicated 5.5" upper AND a standard Ciener kit. The only difference between the AR and the M16 versions are the sear trip and anti-bounce weight are incluced with the M16. The rest of the kit is the same. I polished the rails and rubbing surfaces of my Spike's when I got it and I don't have any problems whatsoever with it. I actually took mine to a group shoot and 'learning session' for some guys from the Indiana Gun Owners forum (click the link and search for "NFA Day" to see the pics) and they put about 2k rounds of .22lr through the thing in less than an hour. It only started to hiccup towards the end due to massive amounts of fouling and crud in the action and chamber area. A quick cleaning remedied that. I can only say good things about the Spike's setup. Here is a gratuitous pic of mine:

ogree · October 5, 2008, 06:38 PM

BlackDog Machine has spare extractors & firing pins for the ciener conversion units.

http://blackdogmachinellc.net/

Wiskey_33 · October 5, 2008, 07:47 PM

I've talked with some people who claim that Ciener has HORRIBLE customer service! Just something to think about.

Double Naught Spy · October 5, 2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

I've talked with some people who claim that Ciener has HORRIBLE customer service! Just something to think about.

This is pretty kind. I was very dissatisfied with dealing with Ciener on my conversion that died. The problem was never rectified.

VUPDblue · October 5, 2008, 08:27 PM

The dissatisfaction with John Ciener is why companies like Spike's and CMMG, who have great customer service, will probably put him out of the AR conversion business. For once, he does not have the market cornered.

Legion2600 · October 6, 2008, 02:16 AM

VUPD.. which rail kit is that on the upper?

VUPDblue · October 6, 2008, 07:39 AM

It's a YHM lightweight carbine-length with ladder covers.

September 27, 2008, 01:22 PM	#1
Rant Casey Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 441	Ciener kit for m16 or dedicated upper? I'm not really a big fan of shooting .22lr out of anything, but ammo is expensive and my m16 is actually costing me more in ammo than the gun itsself. I was thinking of getting a ciener kit to help the cost a bit, I love shooting 5.56 but lets be honest, the water jugs and cans i'm shooting can't tell the difference. Now my question is, do they have a m16 kit that's readilly availible, I've only seen the ar 15 ones? Also, I'm going to be shooting this quite a bit, should I just go with a dedicated upper from spikes tactical? I don't want to burn a few thousand rounds through the kit (that would be in 2 days max) and have to replace everything.

October 5, 2008, 05:39 PM	#6
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	The CMMG and the Spike's kit are IDENTICAL copies of the Ciener kit. The Spike's kit is hard-nickel plated, and I don't know about the CMMG as they have not started shipping yet. I have a Spike's dedicated 5.5" upper AND a standard Ciener kit. The only difference between the AR and the M16 versions are the sear trip and anti-bounce weight are incluced with the M16. The rest of the kit is the same. I polished the rails and rubbing surfaces of my Spike's when I got it and I don't have any problems whatsoever with it. I actually took mine to a group shoot and 'learning session' for some guys from the Indiana Gun Owners forum (click the link and search for "NFA Day" to see the pics) and they put about 2k rounds of .22lr through the thing in less than an hour. It only started to hiccup towards the end due to massive amounts of fouling and crud in the action and chamber area. A quick cleaning remedied that. I can only say good things about the Spike's setup. Here is a gratuitous pic of mine: __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

October 5, 2008, 07:47 PM	#8
Wiskey_33 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2007 Location: The South Posts: 1,084	I've talked with some people who claim that Ciener has HORRIBLE customer service! Just something to think about. __________________ "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"-Uncle Ted

October 5, 2008, 08:27 PM	#10
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	The dissatisfaction with John Ciener is why companies like Spike's and CMMG, who have great customer service, will probably put him out of the AR conversion business. For once, he does not have the market cornered. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

October 6, 2008, 07:39 AM	#12
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	It's a YHM lightweight carbine-length with ladder covers. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

September 27, 2008, 03:03 PM	#2
Ridge_Runner_5 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,925	I have a Ciener kit on the way, myself...not only is it cheaper to shoot, but it lets me into more ranges around here that dont allow rifle calibers...and indoor ranges will be very useful in a month or two when the snow starts falling...

September 27, 2008, 06:04 PM	#3
ogree Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Location: Idaho Posts: 151	check out CMMG, they are now offering a 22 conversion unit for the AR and may have the M-16 unit as well.

September 27, 2008, 09:40 PM	#4
AMX Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Posts: 129	I have both, a KPF dedicated upper and a Ciener kit. For an M16 shooting water jugs and cans, a kit will do fine. A dedicated upper with a real 1-16" twist will shoot a tighter group, but it doesn't sound like thats what you're looking for. I use my conversion kit a lot more than my KPF upper.

October 5, 2008, 03:33 PM	#5
Rant Casey Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 441	Is the cmmg better quality than the ciener kit? Replacement parts availible? Firing pin etc..

October 5, 2008, 06:38 PM	#7
ogree Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Location: Idaho Posts: 151	BlackDog Machine has spare extractors & firing pins for the ciener conversion units. http://blackdogmachinellc.net/

October 6, 2008, 02:16 AM	#11
Legion2600 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: DFW Posts: 108	VUPD.. which rail kit is that on the upper?