If you were to refinish a rifle which would you use?

tnxdshooter · January 7, 2012, 08:34 AM

If you were going to have a rifle refinished would you have it dura coated over a parkerized base or teflon moly coated over a parkerized base? I am kind of leaning towards the teflon moly because I think it would wear better but I would like to get your all's opinions on the matter. I plan to maybe shoot the gun a few times a year and I dont plan to abuse it really. I have heard alot of bad things about dura coat. The funny thing is the refinisher that does the dura coat and the moly around here warrants dura coat for 5 years and the moly for 1 year. I have always thought bake on finishes were more durable than spray on and air dry finishes thus the higher warranty on the dura coat stumps me.

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tnxdshooter · January 7, 2012, 10:58 AM

It has been my experience that bake on finishes are alot tougher than air dry finishes. Thus I was confused why the warranty for duracoat would be longer.

**Unclenick** · January 7, 2012, 07:05 PM

Duracoat is a two-part like epoxy. You can choose a resin cross-linked chemically that way or choose one cross-linked by heat, but that doesn't require a second part to be mixed in. Either way, you get it very tough finish. I'm sure a low level of heat makes Duracoat set faster.

oneoldsap · January 7, 2012, 07:52 PM

Teflon Moly isn't a top coat over another finish . It is a finish all by itself , designed to be applied to bare steel !

**Unclenick** · January 8, 2012, 10:01 AM

Undercoating isn't required with Teflon Moly, but a porous zinc phosphate coating usually increases the strength of the bond of any painted finish even further.

Mac's! · January 8, 2012, 12:32 PM

I've been using Gunkote 2400 Series molly coat for over thirty years so I have quite a bit of experience with it. I have tried a few other firearms finishes but always have gone back to Gunkote. No, I don't own stock in the company! Yes, I'm probably a little biased about it! A few things to think about when choosing a firearms finish:
Surface preparation is at least 75% of the total job. Abrasive blasting is pretty much a requirement for a long lasting durable finish job. One of the so-called firearms finish producers claims that only degreasing is required before applying their finish. Sure! The checks in the mail too!
Many so called "molly" finishes don't have much if any molly in them at all. Mollybdenum Disulfide aka molly is a dry lubricant that can be dispersed in the finish material. It's great for applying built in lubrication.
Use caution with a few of the finishes when applying them to close tolerance or moving parts. Some of them are to thick to allow moving parts to move properly. If it doesn't burnish, it will flake and peel with wear and gum up the works. The Gunkote that I use will burnish to a perfect fit. Parts start out a little tight. In fact, I apply it thicker to certain areas like slide rails to make them tighter and then hand lap the excess off for a perfect fit.
Applying a spray on finish over Parkerizing will result in a better bond of the finish to the metal. Parkerizing causes microscopic pores in the surface of the metal. In the "old days", those pores were filled with oil. Nowadays, the spray on finish fills the pores. If one is a #5 and the other is a #5, both together result in a #12.
Before spending money to have someone apply the finish or spending the time to do it yourself, look at the overall durabilty of the finish being used. Durability as in wear resistance, chemical resistance, corrosion resistance, can it be applied to internals so they're protected too, etc. Mil-Spec ratings are great...as long as the rating applies to firearms! For example: One of the finishes is not manufactured by "them". It's re-packaged Polane T. Yes, it has a Mil-Spec rating....for use on railings, walkways, heavy equipment, etc. but NOT for firearms! That same compnay tried to get us to use "their" finish. I asked about chemical restistances. They had no clue because no tests had ever been done on it. What good does it do to spend several hundred dollars on a firearms finish if it smears the first time you use an acetone based cleaner on it?
Yes, I like Gunkote! Yes, it has to be cured in an oven and requires some special equipment to apply it...at least the way that I apply it for our Tuff-Gun finishes. No, it's not as user freindly as Krylon. Yes, it smells bad...really bad! But, I know what chemicals it will stand up to and for how long. It really does have a lot of molly in it. It's Mil-Spec rating is for firearms. It's not only used by militaries, it's actually required by a few of them. Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' Irons
http://www.shootiniron.com

mapsjanhere · January 8, 2012, 08:03 PM

Just one remark on epoxies - they all benefit from a post-cure at elevated temperatures. Apply as directed, then postcure for 4 h in a 300 F oven. Especially for stuff on guns that will warm up during firing, getting a nice slow even heat done first helps with durability.

Clark · January 8, 2012, 10:49 PM

Mac,
15 years ago I sprayed an 1100 shotgun barrel with Brownells lacquer paint and put it in the kitchen oven when my wife was gone. I think I got some brain damage from the fumes that filled the house, and I painted over the night sights.

I can see I have a can of Gun-Kote [$30 retail + shipping] sitting here for 2 years.
I chamber a couple rifles for myself per year.

If you are going to plug the barrel, sandblast, warm, spray, spray, bake, and ship back a barrel for $90... then I will throw this can back on the shelf, and call you.

Like Indiana Jones asking, "Why did it have to be snakes?", I ask myself, "Why did it have to be breathing poison?"

Mac's! · January 9, 2012, 11:49 AM

CLARK...Yup, the fumes from heat curing any thermally set finish are horrible. Yeah, they're bad for your health both as fumes breathed and particles eaten. One problem with curing it in the kitchen oven, is that solids will transfer to the inside surfaces of the oven and then transfer back onto the piza the next time it's heated. My shop oven is huge, like a refrigerator huge. The insides get full of black dust from the the curing. Sure, I cure a lot of parts in it but any of that stuff at all on my Grand Kids pizza is to much.

Yes, that price is correct for a barreled receiver with no other parts. $90 for the complete refinish with one color, all details and return shipping included. (Lower 48) I still have one of the old original aerosol spray cans of Gunkote too. Mine is from the 70's with the old name Kal-Guard still on it. Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' Irons
http://www.shootiniron.com

January 7, 2012, 07:05 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Duracoat is a two-part like epoxy. You can choose a resin cross-linked chemically that way or choose one cross-linked by heat, but that doesn't require a second part to be mixed in. Either way, you get it very tough finish. I'm sure a low level of heat makes Duracoat set faster. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 8, 2012, 08:03 PM	#7
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Just one remark on epoxies - they all benefit from a post-cure at elevated temperatures. Apply as directed, then postcure for 4 h in a 300 F oven. Especially for stuff on guns that will warm up during firing, getting a nice slow even heat done first helps with durability. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

January 8, 2012, 10:49 PM	#8
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	Mac, 15 years ago I sprayed an 1100 shotgun barrel with Brownells lacquer paint and put it in the kitchen oven when my wife was gone. I think I got some brain damage from the fumes that filled the house, and I painted over the night sights. I can see I have a can of Gun-Kote [$30 retail + shipping] sitting here for 2 years. I chamber a couple rifles for myself per year. If you are going to plug the barrel, sandblast, warm, spray, spray, bake, and ship back a barrel for $90... then I will throw this can back on the shelf, and call you. Like Indiana Jones asking, "Why did it have to be snakes?", I ask myself, "Why did it have to be breathing poison?" __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

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January 7, 2012, 08:34 AM	#1
tnxdshooter Junior member Join Date: December 17, 2011 Posts: 52	If you were to refinish a rifle which would you use? If you were going to have a rifle refinished would you have it dura coated over a parkerized base or teflon moly coated over a parkerized base? I am kind of leaning towards the teflon moly because I think it would wear better but I would like to get your all's opinions on the matter. I plan to maybe shoot the gun a few times a year and I dont plan to abuse it really. I have heard alot of bad things about dura coat. The funny thing is the refinisher that does the dura coat and the moly around here warrants dura coat for 5 years and the moly for 1 year. I have always thought bake on finishes were more durable than spray on and air dry finishes thus the higher warranty on the dura coat stumps me. Sent from Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless

January 7, 2012, 10:58 AM	#2
tnxdshooter Junior member Join Date: December 17, 2011 Posts: 52	It has been my experience that bake on finishes are alot tougher than air dry finishes. Thus I was confused why the warranty for duracoat would be longer.

January 7, 2012, 07:52 PM	#4
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	Teflon Moly isn't a top coat over another finish . It is a finish all by itself , designed to be applied to bare steel !

January 8, 2012, 10:01 AM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Undercoating isn't required with Teflon Moly, but a porous zinc phosphate coating usually increases the strength of the bond of any painted finish even further. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; January 10, 2012 at 01:01 PM. Reason: typo fix

January 8, 2012, 12:32 PM	#6
Mac's! Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2001 Posts: 129	I've been using Gunkote 2400 Series molly coat for over thirty years so I have quite a bit of experience with it. I have tried a few other firearms finishes but always have gone back to Gunkote. No, I don't own stock in the company! Yes, I'm probably a little biased about it! A few things to think about when choosing a firearms finish: Surface preparation is at least 75% of the total job. Abrasive blasting is pretty much a requirement for a long lasting durable finish job. One of the so-called firearms finish producers claims that only degreasing is required before applying their finish. Sure! The checks in the mail too! Many so called "molly" finishes don't have much if any molly in them at all. Mollybdenum Disulfide aka molly is a dry lubricant that can be dispersed in the finish material. It's great for applying built in lubrication. Use caution with a few of the finishes when applying them to close tolerance or moving parts. Some of them are to thick to allow moving parts to move properly. If it doesn't burnish, it will flake and peel with wear and gum up the works. The Gunkote that I use will burnish to a perfect fit. Parts start out a little tight. In fact, I apply it thicker to certain areas like slide rails to make them tighter and then hand lap the excess off for a perfect fit. Applying a spray on finish over Parkerizing will result in a better bond of the finish to the metal. Parkerizing causes microscopic pores in the surface of the metal. In the "old days", those pores were filled with oil. Nowadays, the spray on finish fills the pores. If one is a #5 and the other is a #5, both together result in a #12. Before spending money to have someone apply the finish or spending the time to do it yourself, look at the overall durabilty of the finish being used. Durability as in wear resistance, chemical resistance, corrosion resistance, can it be applied to internals so they're protected too, etc. Mil-Spec ratings are great...as long as the rating applies to firearms! For example: One of the finishes is not manufactured by "them". It's re-packaged Polane T. Yes, it has a Mil-Spec rating....for use on railings, walkways, heavy equipment, etc. but NOT for firearms! That same compnay tried to get us to use "their" finish. I asked about chemical restistances. They had no clue because no tests had ever been done on it. What good does it do to spend several hundred dollars on a firearms finish if it smears the first time you use an acetone based cleaner on it? Yes, I like Gunkote! Yes, it has to be cured in an oven and requires some special equipment to apply it...at least the way that I apply it for our Tuff-Gun finishes. No, it's not as user freindly as Krylon. Yes, it smells bad...really bad! But, I know what chemicals it will stand up to and for how long. It really does have a lot of molly in it. It's Mil-Spec rating is for firearms. It's not only used by militaries, it's actually required by a few of them. Keep yer powder dry, Mac. Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All. Mac's Shootin' Irons http://www.shootiniron.com

January 9, 2012, 11:49 AM	#9
Mac's! Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2001 Posts: 129	CLARK...Yup, the fumes from heat curing any thermally set finish are horrible. Yeah, they're bad for your health both as fumes breathed and particles eaten. One problem with curing it in the kitchen oven, is that solids will transfer to the inside surfaces of the oven and then transfer back onto the piza the next time it's heated. My shop oven is huge, like a refrigerator huge. The insides get full of black dust from the the curing. Sure, I cure a lot of parts in it but any of that stuff at all on my Grand Kids pizza is to much. Yes, that price is correct for a barreled receiver with no other parts. $90 for the complete refinish with one color, all details and return shipping included. (Lower 48) I still have one of the old original aerosol spray cans of Gunkote too. Mine is from the 70's with the old name Kal-Guard still on it. Keep yer powder dry, Mac. Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All. Mac's Shootin' Irons http://www.shootiniron.com