OLD 12 Gauge

[texnut]

My dad just celebrated his 80th birthday! Yeah Dad! In his possession is a Remington 12 gauge that was about 50 years old (so he was told) when he bought it. The gun is now about 100 years old! He bought it for home protection, but having grown up hunting for food, he never hunted and it was left in the closet and more or less forgotten about (the safe joys of living in small town Texas!). Last fired, by his estimate, somewhere between 30-40 years ago. I contacted a gunsmith today about having the gun torn down, properly cleaned and lubed and reassembled. He emailed back that he would be happy to do the job for about $50 which I thought was reasonable, but warned me that tuned up or not, the gun may not be safe to fire due to the barrel material construction and today's ammo. Never thought of that. Any opinions? I'm in Utah and he still lives in Texas, so I don't have access to the gun.

RT

[Doyle]

A model number would help us. If it has damascus barrels, then it is absolutely not safe. However, by the early 1900's proof steel barrels were available. See if the barrel has any lettering (down near the base of the barrel).

[texnut]

Doyle,

The gunsmith mentioned Damascus. I won't be talking to him again until Sunday and I'll get the barrel information. I had it at one time. I hate to think this has turned into a mantle piece, but certainly don't want him or anyone else to get hurt. I contacted The Gun Doctor and More in Longview, TX via email. The gentleman got back to me quickly and seemed very straightforward. If the gun is unsafe, I would prefer he take it to them and have it rendered made safe for keeping but not using.

Thanks for the input.

RT

[Doyle]

If it does have damascus barrel, that doesn't mean it isn't safe to use. You just have to use black powder shells that are just like the ones made back in those days. They are available - but aren't cheap.

[texnut]

Thanks Doyle. Considering it's been in a closet for most of the past 50 years, I doubt he will run out and load up on ammo. Mom wants to buy him a pistol, but I think I'll suggest either a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 like mine. At 80, I don't think he has the grip strength for a snub nose or the recovery for a .45. Parents. What shall we do with them? He's a great man. I've been blessed to have someone who taught me firearm safety even when he was not "pro" gun. But not "anti" either. Just quietly sitting in the background.

RT

[LaserSpot]

If it does have damascus barrel, that doesn't mean it isn't safe to use. You just have to use black powder shells that are just like the ones made back in those days.

Or, it may be possible to have a tubes fitted in the barrels to shoot 20 guage shells. Is this a side-by-side, or a pump? There is some historical information on Remington's site.
side-by-side: http://www.remington.com/product-fam...-shotguns.aspx
pump: http://www.remington.com/product-fam...-shotguns.aspx

[oneounceload]

Damascus barreled guns MIGHT be able to be fired with low-pressure smokeless loads. It DEPENDS on whether a gunsmith who knows about Damascus barrels and guns can ascertain the safety. Companies like Polywad, RST among others, sell low-pressure loads for old guns. When you have the smith give it a good once over, have him measure the chambers. Older guns light have shorter chambers than modern guns. What TYPE of Remington is it?

Good luck!

[texnut]

Should have mentioned it is a pump.

[LaserSpot]

Ok, probably doesn't have a Damascus barrel then. I think the next question will be, does it have a 2 3/4" chamber?

[bwdilli]

Sounds like a model 10. Is it bottom eject? They came in both 2 9/16" and 2 3/4". Depends on how early it was.

[texnut]

These are good questions and I'll have to get the answers. I haven't seen this gun since I was a teen, and I'm pushing 50. I did find the information from the barrel!

From the bottom of the barrel: 122474

The rest I believe to be patent dates:
Oct 9,1900
Dec 17, 1901
Sept 30,1902
June 18 1903

He originally told me it was a Browning but later said it is a Remington.

Hope this is helpful. You guys have been great!

RT

[LaserSpot]

Are you sure it's not an autoloader? Some of those patent dates are the same as a Browning Auto-5

See: http://www.remington.com/products/ar.../model-11.aspx
and: http://funarg.nfshost.com/r2/notes/b...g-patents.html

[texnut]

I'm currently waiting to hear from Remington for more info about this shotgun. In the meantime I've learned that it is an autoloader with side eject. The stock was originally square but has been modified. And my dad still can't take a picture and attach it in an email. This has been a bit frustrating but I thank you all for your input and suggestions.

RT

[kozak6]

Sounds like a Remington model 11. The confusion with it and a Browning is reasonable, as the Remington model 11 is a licensed version of the Browning Auto-5.

It should have a 2 3/4" chamber, which is good.

It might also be shootable after all.

[texnut]

I need to find a good gunsmith in the NE Texas area. Dad lives in Mt. Pleasant and will probably want to go to Longview with the gun. Can anyone PM or suggest and positive experiences in that area?

RT

[texnut]

Ater a few questions, Remington has finally come up with an answer. Here is there reply:

If this is an auto loader it sounds like a model 11 from around 1910 - 1911. You can view this model on our web site to see if this looks like what he has. I have included a link for your convenience.

http://www.remington.com/products/ar.../model-11.aspx

Thanks for all the help. I'm waiting to hear back from dad for confirmation.

RT

[ZeroJunk]

If it is a Model 11 it is a good reliable shotgun if kept up. A little heavy, but I still hunt with one quite a bit.

Where is the safety located?

[texnut]

kozak6! Zero, not sure about the safety. I'm in Utah and the gun is in Texas. Dad it not tech savvy so getting a pic it out of the question. Hopefully he will visit a gunsmith in the next few weeks and maybe I can get a pic that way.

RT