Hawes Western Marshall SAA 357 w/ no ejector assembly?

browncoat817 · March 24, 2013, 03:53 PM

Hey guys, this is my first post. I just bought a Hawes (JP Sauer) SAA Western Marshall in 357 Magnum. However, the gun has no ejector assembly (rod, tubing, etc.) and the frame does not appear to have been designed to house one. Is anyone familiar with variations of this revolver that did not include an ejector assembly (if so, could you also explain why?), or am I missing something? I'm attaching a photo that might help. Thanks.

Hammerhead · March 24, 2013, 04:17 PM

I'm sure the real experts will be along shortly, but I think that's a sheriffs' or storekeepers' model. Popular belly gun back in the day.
probably has a 3" barrel or less?
They skipped the ejector to get the smallest gun possible for concealment.

Bob Wright · March 24, 2013, 04:36 PM

As Hammerhead said, you probably (can't tell for sure from the photo) have the Sheriff's Model or Storekeepers Model. These were made without ejectors as the short barrel was shorter than the ejector assemblies.

A long stout fingernail works for empties. Usually.

Bob Wright

browncoat817 · March 24, 2013, 04:41 PM

I knew I'd leave out something important. It's not a sheriff's model, it's actually a 6" barrel. That's what has me so confused...I can't seem to find anything referring to a 6" SAA, Hawes or otherwise, without the ejector system.

Bob Wright · March 24, 2013, 04:46 PM

My only guess is that its been rebarreled.

Bob Wright

Hammerhead · March 24, 2013, 05:00 PM

6" barrel, fixed sights, no ejector. That is an odd duck.
Yeah, that has to be a rebarrel or some other special project.

browncoat817 · March 24, 2013, 05:09 PM

Well, I appreciate the feedback. The final twist in this odd narrative is that the serials on the barrel and frame match, which would lead me to believe this was the original configuration. So I just don't know. Definitely beats anything I've ever seen. Not a big deal I guess. If anyone else figures it out, I'm definitely interested. Thanks again!

dalegribble · March 24, 2013, 05:33 PM

my dad had a hawes saa 22 cal like that he got without the ejector. there were screw holes and wear marks where the ejector should go. i orderd an ejector from an online gun parts supplier ( i don't remember which one) and attached it myself. if the barrel has screw holes to attach the ejector rod i'm sure a quick search on the internet will turn one up for you.

rep1954 · March 24, 2013, 05:39 PM

Back in the day Colt did make limited number of longer barreled SAA's and I don't know if USFA ever made or sold any but they offered them. I always liked the look of a ejector less in any barrel length.

browncoat817 · March 24, 2013, 06:16 PM

Nope, no hole on the barrel for the ejector tube screw and no space on the frame for the ejector rod to run beneath and into the cylinder. I'll try to post some better pictures soon, for anyone who is interested.

browncoat817 · March 24, 2013, 10:47 PM

I did a bit more research and found a couple of images online of the exact frame configuration of my SAA. They are indeed the frames that JP Sauer & Sohn produced for the Sheriff's model (the attached photo is NOT my SAA, but one I found online of a SAA from JP Sauer imported by Hawes--the frame is identical to mine). You can see where the frame was never designed for an ejector rod or tube. Ones that are designed to house the tube look completely different on the tube-side, because the rod has to enter the chamber through the frame. Anyway, from what I gather the frame was intended for a Sheriff's model but was somehow married to a 6" barrel instead (which is still strange because the barrel was never fit with an ejector tube screw hole). Because the serial numbers on the frame and barrel match, I can't see how this would be done aftermarket. Not sure why it was done this way, whether it was intentional or an oversight, or whether there are any others like it produced. So far I haven't found any. I emailed Sig Sauer with a description and the serial number in hopes of finding out, but who knows if they'll be able to tell me anything. Thanks all.

blfuller · March 25, 2013, 02:32 PM

A wood pencil or 1/4" hardwood dowel could be used to push out the fired cartridge from the front of the cylinder. If they are hard to remove push down on the bench to remove.

browncoat817 · March 27, 2013, 03:58 PM

I did hear back from Harald Wagner at Sig Sauer who confirmed it was sold in Los Angeles in November 1968. The lack of an ejector stumped him too, and he's checking with their engineering department for clues. Standing by.

rep1954 · March 27, 2013, 05:01 PM

We still going to see some new pictures?

Motownstan · March 27, 2013, 09:40 PM

I have a USFA Sheriff model with a 4 inch barrel. I don't miss the ejector, the spent cases almost fall out.

James K · March 27, 2013, 09:49 PM

With the frame not made for the ejector and the barrel not made for the ejector rod housing, it sure seems like a factory custom gun to me. Why would a customer order such a combination? Unless he is reading this and will let us know, your guess is as good as mine.

Jim

browncoat817 · March 27, 2013, 10:45 PM

Good point, Jim. Here's a better pic, though still not a great one (had to use my phone, don't have a great digital camera). Thanks for the pic, motown, here's hoping my spent cases drop as freely as yours lol.

Venom1956 · March 30, 2013, 03:35 AM

Its a stretch but maybe he intended to just swap cylinders for reloads?

With out the ejector housing it is easier to get a hold of the cylinder pin. That besides liking the way it looks is the only guess I have.

Jim Watson · March 30, 2013, 09:07 AM

Definitely unusual.

I have seen pictures of period Colts with longer barrels than Sheriff's Models and no provision for ejector rod, even one Bisley; so Hawes and Sauer had a precedent.
I doubt your Hawes is worth quite as much as a Colt of the same configuration, but it ought to shoot as well.

James K · March 31, 2013, 08:29 PM

If I make revolvers and a customer wants something a bit different and is willing to put up bucks, he is going to get it. It doesn't have to make sense to me or anyone else. I will laugh at him all the way to the bank.

Jim

browncoat817 · April 1, 2013, 01:04 PM

Quote:

I have seen pictures of period Colts with longer barrels than Sheriff's Models and no provision for ejector rod, even one Bisley; so Hawes and Sauer had a precedent.

That answers my real question, which was whether anyone had ever seen anything like this before. Nice to know there was some kind of precedent, however rare.

Quote:

If I make revolvers and a customer wants something a bit different and is willing to put up bucks, he is going to get it. It doesn't have to make sense to me or anyone else. I will laugh at him all the way to the bank.

I'm of two minds here. I want to agree with you, the customer gets what he pays for. However, I tend to also consider the fact that my name will be stamped on the gun as the manufacturer, and don't want my name associated with something laughable. The reputation is worth more than a single sale. In this case, it's not a ridiculous request, just unusual. So I'd have probably done it, but only if requested by the customer. Which is what I assume happened.

Jamesmyboy · August 12, 2013, 10:37 AM

This is identical to a piece I had back in the '70's. Why it was designed that way is a 19th century question and can only be answered accurately by a contemporary source. However, I have been looking for one of these since then and would like to know if this is one, or any other, is available.

browncoat817 · August 12, 2013, 11:15 AM

Thanks for the response. I do still have it, and if you're interested in it PM me and we can discuss. I'm relocating to Chicago soon and would like to avoid the hassle of paying an annual fee to own it there. Just let me know.

Jamesmyboy · August 20, 2013, 01:55 PM

In case you didn't receive my first PM; [email protected]

TSL · October 19, 2013, 03:28 PM

I also have a Western Marshal .357 with no ejector assembly. Always wondered if it just a mistake. Have had it since the 1970's

March 24, 2013, 05:33 PM	#8
dalegribble Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Posts: 861	my dad had a hawes saa 22 cal like that he got without the ejector. there were screw holes and wear marks where the ejector should go. i orderd an ejector from an online gun parts supplier ( i don't remember which one) and attached it myself. if the barrel has screw holes to attach the ejector rod i'm sure a quick search on the internet will turn one up for you. __________________ Waltzes with woofs

March 24, 2013, 05:39 PM	#9
rep1954 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Mid Western Michigan Posts: 1,187	Hawes Western Marshall SAA 357 w/ no ejector assembly? Back in the day Colt did make limited number of longer barreled SAA's and I don't know if USFA ever made or sold any but they offered them. I always liked the look of a ejector less in any barrel length.

March 27, 2013, 05:01 PM	#14
rep1954 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Mid Western Michigan Posts: 1,187	Hawes Western Marshall SAA 357 w/ no ejector assembly? We still going to see some new pictures?

March 27, 2013, 09:40 PM	#15
Motownstan Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 226	I have a USFA Sheriff model with a 4 inch barrel. I don't miss the ejector, the spent cases almost fall out. __________________ Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. - Napoleon

March 30, 2013, 03:35 AM	#18
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	Its a stretch but maybe he intended to just swap cylinders for reloads? With out the ejector housing it is easier to get a hold of the cylinder pin. That besides liking the way it looks is the only guess I have. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

March 24, 2013, 04:17 PM	#2
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	I'm sure the real experts will be along shortly, but I think that's a sheriffs' or storekeepers' model. Popular belly gun back in the day. probably has a 3" barrel or less? They skipped the ejector to get the smallest gun possible for concealment.

March 24, 2013, 04:36 PM	#3
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	As Hammerhead said, you probably (can't tell for sure from the photo) have the Sheriff's Model or Storekeepers Model. These were made without ejectors as the short barrel was shorter than the ejector assemblies. A long stout fingernail works for empties. Usually. Bob Wright

March 24, 2013, 04:41 PM	#4
browncoat817 Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Posts: 12	I knew I'd leave out something important. It's not a sheriff's model, it's actually a 6" barrel. That's what has me so confused...I can't seem to find anything referring to a 6" SAA, Hawes or otherwise, without the ejector system.

March 24, 2013, 04:46 PM	#5
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	My only guess is that its been rebarreled. Bob Wright

March 24, 2013, 05:00 PM	#6
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	6" barrel, fixed sights, no ejector. That is an odd duck. Yeah, that has to be a rebarrel or some other special project.

March 24, 2013, 05:09 PM	#7
browncoat817 Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Posts: 12	Well, I appreciate the feedback. The final twist in this odd narrative is that the serials on the barrel and frame match, which would lead me to believe this was the original configuration. So I just don't know. Definitely beats anything I've ever seen. Not a big deal I guess. If anyone else figures it out, I'm definitely interested. Thanks again!

March 24, 2013, 06:16 PM	#10
browncoat817 Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Posts: 12	Nope, no hole on the barrel for the ejector tube screw and no space on the frame for the ejector rod to run beneath and into the cylinder. I'll try to post some better pictures soon, for anyone who is interested.

March 25, 2013, 02:32 PM	#12
blfuller Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2013 Location: Washington State Posts: 246	A wood pencil or 1/4" hardwood dowel could be used to push out the fired cartridge from the front of the cylinder. If they are hard to remove push down on the bench to remove.

March 27, 2013, 03:58 PM	#13
browncoat817 Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Posts: 12	I did hear back from Harald Wagner at Sig Sauer who confirmed it was sold in Los Angeles in November 1968. The lack of an ejector stumped him too, and he's checking with their engineering department for clues. Standing by.

March 27, 2013, 09:49 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	With the frame not made for the ejector and the barrel not made for the ejector rod housing, it sure seems like a factory custom gun to me. Why would a customer order such a combination? Unless he is reading this and will let us know, your guess is as good as mine. Jim

March 30, 2013, 09:07 AM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,537	Definitely unusual. I have seen pictures of period Colts with longer barrels than Sheriff's Models and no provision for ejector rod, even one Bisley; so Hawes and Sauer had a precedent. I doubt your Hawes is worth quite as much as a Colt of the same configuration, but it ought to shoot as well.

March 31, 2013, 08:29 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If I make revolvers and a customer wants something a bit different and is willing to put up bucks, he is going to get it. It doesn't have to make sense to me or anyone else. I will laugh at him all the way to the bank. Jim

August 12, 2013, 10:37 AM	#22
Jamesmyboy Junior Member Join Date: August 9, 2013 Posts: 7	Hawes with no ejector. This is identical to a piece I had back in the '70's. Why it was designed that way is a 19th century question and can only be answered accurately by a contemporary source. However, I have been looking for one of these since then and would like to know if this is one, or any other, is available.

August 12, 2013, 11:15 AM	#23
browncoat817 Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2011 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Posts: 12	Thanks for the response. I do still have it, and if you're interested in it PM me and we can discuss. I'm relocating to Chicago soon and would like to avoid the hassle of paying an annual fee to own it there. Just let me know.

August 20, 2013, 01:55 PM	#24
Jamesmyboy Junior Member Join Date: August 9, 2013 Posts: 7	Hawes Western Marshal In case you didn't receive my first PM; [email protected]

October 19, 2013, 03:28 PM	#25
TSL Junior Member Join Date: October 19, 2013 Posts: 1	I also have a Western Marshal .357 with no ejector assembly. Always wondered if it just a mistake. Have had it since the 1970's