Lake City ''MATCH'' brass-Is it better?

Glennster · July 3, 2007, 09:37 PM

Is Lake City '' MATCH '' head stamped brass better than the other Lake City brass ?????

kkb · July 3, 2007, 09:52 PM

Nope, same brass spec as used in combat.

"MATCH" brass is loaded with hollowpoint bullets for competition use only. It's against some accord to use hollowpoints in combat.

cdrt · July 4, 2007, 07:23 AM

Quote:

"MATCH" brass is loaded with hollowpoint bullets for competition use only. It's against some accord to use hollowpoints in combat.

The 173 grain LC match load is the std round for snipers. Any Navy ship that carries L-Form (the loadout for amphibious landings) will have a allocation of Match rounds for snipers be it Marine or Army units. The Geneva Convention outlawed the use of soft point (i.e. dum-dum) bullets.

Having said that, I have both LC brass and LC match brass. The only difference is the primer crimp on the std cases which make them difficult to deprime. I use one of those Lee decapper units; slow but effective.

Glennster · July 4, 2007, 10:46 AM

THANK YOU for clearing that up for me!!!!!!

Jim Watson · July 4, 2007, 11:46 AM

Nope, same brass spec as used in combat.

Except that, as said, the primers are not crimped in match brass. Doesn't affect the decapping but sure helps on the reprime.

"MATCH" brass is loaded with hollowpoint bullets for competition use only. It's against some accord to use hollowpoints in combat.

The JAG has issued official positions that it is ok to shoot foreigners with match bullets that just happen to be hollowpoints because the intent is to be able to hit them farther away, not to hurt them worse, which is against the Hague Accords. I do not know what they are issuing snipers and designated marksmen right now, but the M118 LR with a 175 gr SMK is in the system.

As is .223 Mk262 with 77 gr SMK bullets. Which is said to be the best round to be shot out of an M16 or M4 at Iraquis without going to the expense of rebarrelling to a larger caliber.

30Cal · July 4, 2007, 11:53 AM

Any differences beyond the primer crimp and price are purely cosmetic. The LC90 I'm shooting now works as well as the LC89 Match I was shooting last year. Weight variance is about the same.

**Unclenick** · July 7, 2007, 02:38 PM

The older M118 match brass (pre-LR suffix) and the M72 .30-06 match brass were both loaded with 174.5 +0/-3 grain FMJ BT match bullets originally. They were meant to copy, more or less, the ballistics of the old M1 ball that replaced 1906 ball and preceded M2 ball and M2 AP. Up to 1985, the M852 match round was loaded with the 168 grain SMK, and labeled NOT FOR COMBAT.

The 1985 JAG opinion that changed the combat status of hollow points is described and quoted here, for the curious. The opinion opened the way for Sierra's development of the 175 grain SMK in cooperation with the military. It is a secant ogive design, needed because the older 168 grain SMK tangent ogive design becomes unstable in the transonic region and starts tumbling at around 700 yards when fired from a .308 with 24" barrel. (I have had the pleasure of experiencing this personally, as well as witnessing it happening to a dozen other people firing on 800 yard targets and getting keyholes on the same day.) M118 LR was the result of replacing the old FMJ BT match bullet with the new Sierra. I believe they also goosed the pressure up a little.

The UDM's are being trained on an AR with the 77 grain SMK ammo.

Tim R · July 10, 2007, 08:39 PM

The 7.62 L/C match brass has very uniform primer pockets. The L/C ball brass does not. After swaging and uniforming the primer pockets on the ball brass, not much difference between the 2.

**Unclenick** · July 13, 2007, 01:15 PM

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that!

Scorch · July 13, 2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

The Geneva Convention outlawed the use of soft point (i.e. dum-dum) bullets.

Actually, the Geneva Convention covers treatment of non-combatants and prisoners of war.

The Hague Accords cover acceptable practices in war, including the use of munitions intended solely to inflict greater bodily harm, and mention open-nose soft point ammunition. It actually says that any subscribing nation will refrain from using banned practices and equipment, or other nations fighting against them do not have to follow the Hague Accord rules either.

July 3, 2007, 09:37 PM	#1
Glennster Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2005 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 226	Lake City ''MATCH'' brass-Is it better? Is Lake City '' MATCH '' head stamped brass better than the other Lake City brass ?????

July 7, 2007, 02:38 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	The older M118 match brass (pre-LR suffix) and the M72 .30-06 match brass were both loaded with 174.5 +0/-3 grain FMJ BT match bullets originally. They were meant to copy, more or less, the ballistics of the old M1 ball that replaced 1906 ball and preceded M2 ball and M2 AP. Up to 1985, the M852 match round was loaded with the 168 grain SMK, and labeled NOT FOR COMBAT. The 1985 JAG opinion that changed the combat status of hollow points is described and quoted here, for the curious. The opinion opened the way for Sierra's development of the 175 grain SMK in cooperation with the military. It is a secant ogive design, needed because the older 168 grain SMK tangent ogive design becomes unstable in the transonic region and starts tumbling at around 700 yards when fired from a .308 with 24" barrel. (I have had the pleasure of experiencing this personally, as well as witnessing it happening to a dozen other people firing on 800 yard targets and getting keyholes on the same day.) M118 LR was the result of replacing the old FMJ BT match bullet with the new Sierra. I believe they also goosed the pressure up a little. The UDM's are being trained on an AR with the 77 grain SMK ammo. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 10, 2007, 08:39 PM	#8
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	The 7.62 L/C match brass has very uniform primer pockets. The L/C ball brass does not. After swaging and uniforming the primer pockets on the ball brass, not much difference between the 2. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

July 13, 2007, 01:15 PM	#9
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Interesting. I hadn't noticed that! __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 3, 2007, 09:52 PM	#2
kkb Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2004 Location: Western Slope, Colorado Posts: 403	Nope, same brass spec as used in combat. "MATCH" brass is loaded with hollowpoint bullets for competition use only. It's against some accord to use hollowpoints in combat.

July 4, 2007, 10:46 AM	#4
Glennster Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2005 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 226	THANK YOU for clearing that up for me!!!!!!

July 4, 2007, 11:46 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Nope, same brass spec as used in combat. Except that, as said, the primers are not crimped in match brass. Doesn't affect the decapping but sure helps on the reprime. "MATCH" brass is loaded with hollowpoint bullets for competition use only. It's against some accord to use hollowpoints in combat. The JAG has issued official positions that it is ok to shoot foreigners with match bullets that just happen to be hollowpoints because the intent is to be able to hit them farther away, not to hurt them worse, which is against the Hague Accords. I do not know what they are issuing snipers and designated marksmen right now, but the M118 LR with a 175 gr SMK is in the system. As is .223 Mk262 with 77 gr SMK bullets. Which is said to be the best round to be shot out of an M16 or M4 at Iraquis without going to the expense of rebarrelling to a larger caliber.

July 4, 2007, 11:53 AM	#6
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	Any differences beyond the primer crimp and price are purely cosmetic. The LC90 I'm shooting now works as well as the LC89 Match I was shooting last year. Weight variance is about the same.