Single, or progressive press?

[BigJakeJ1s]

In general, not knowing the aptitude or discipline of the new loader, we often suggest starting out on a single stage press. It is the safest route.

However, if you are disciplined (can pay attention to multiple things on/between each pull of the handle) and mechanically adept, starting out on the right progressive press need not be that difficult.

A progressive press can be used as a single stage press, but it will never be as simple as a dedicated single stage press. You can either disable the auto-index (or simply don't manually index) a progressive, and whatever station you put the brass in, it will do just that station's task, just like a single stage press. You can also remove all the dies from the press except the one you want to use, and still use the auto-indexing (you can even use a case feeder too) while "single staging". Some presses (LNL AP) make this easier to do than others (Dillon, RCBS). Even without the case feeder, this is still easier than using a single stage press, because the progressive is taking care of removing the processed case for you; all you have to do is add another case.

You can also use most progressive presses as a Turret press (one cartridge at a time on the press, but stepping through each station, so all the dies/tools are loaded up). The Dillon 650 does not work well this way, because its priming system dispenses a new primer on every pull of the handle, and if it is not used, it gets dumped on the "ski ramp" to who-knows where (and live primers on the bench & floor are never a good thing). The 550 and AP do not dispense a new primer unless the previous one was used. I'm not sure about the RCBS priming system.

If you are mechanically apt, using progressive presses in these manners is not difficult, but the instruction manuals that come with the progressive presses generally handle only getting the press set up to do progressive loading.

Andy

[MW surveyor]

I'd get a turret and use it single stage for starting out. Then as you gain more knowledge use it as a turret. Not as fast as a progressive but it will put out over 200+ rounds per hour easily.

I did start with a single stage and still use it for small run work-up loads and deprime/resize in marathon sessions.

[spclPatrolGroup]

Thanks for all the replys, I guess I wasnt 100% sure the differance between a turret and AP press. This weekend I finished my ABC's of reloading. I think I will get a single stage, and use the extra money to get a good electric scale. My local shops carry a lot of differnt brands. I think the lock n load press is the one I will go with, if I get to the point where I can't keep up I'll look at a AP. I do a couple prarie dog shoots a year, where I can go through 1,000 cartridges of 22-250, those will be the only times when demand may get too high. Thanks for the reply's

[Brian10]

From the beginning I knew that I eventually wanted to go progressive, so my first press I jumped straight in. To learn how things work, just use the progressive as a single stage with 1 die. There really isn't anything a single stage can do that a progressive can't. I speak from the background of a LNL AP though, as I have not used any other brands. I load 380, 9mm, 40, 45, 223, 308, and 25-06.

I really see no reason for a single stage press.

[fireranger]

Hello everyone new to this forum. I agree with Brian10. I got a single stage and ended up with the LnL progressive press which is a out standing press.

[jmortimer]

"I really see no reason for a single stage press."
I think most/many would disagree with this opinion. A single stage is great for single purpose use and for small batch loads and working up a load. I have a single stage and a turret press and would not want to part with either one. I do agree, that if one is determined to start with a progressive, then more power to you but that is not what most/many would recommend.

[Brian10]

I would like to hear how a single stage is better. On the LNL AP, a die change literally takes 5 seconds. When using it in single stage mode with just 1 die, I don't even have to expend that extra second to remove the case from the shell holder, because the LNL mechanism auto ejects it. All I have to do it feed it another case.

[wncchester]

" All I have to do it feed it another case. "

That's nice if your primary focus is volume. But no progressive or turret is quite as likely to produce highly accurate rifle ammo as a single stage. A turret is fine ... for handgun ammo.

That said, a press should be chosen by the expected volume AND number of different cartriges to be loaded; a single stage is easy to use while changing calibers in any progressive is a bit of a PITA.

[Brian10]

I'm not even talking about volume at this point. I'm talking about using the LNL AP as a single stage.

I hear things like a single stage loader making more accurate rounds. How exactly? I hear these broad statements all the time, but with absolutely nothing to back it up. A reloading press is a very simple machine. Pull the lever and the ram goes up. That basic principle is the same.

An example of how I use my LNL AP in single stage mode.

1. Decap and size 308 cases in press.
2. Case process outside of the press.
3. Powder charge in a reloading block using an electric dispenser down to exactly 1 tenth of a grain
4. Seat and crimp in press.

As I've said before, I really see no reason for a single stage press if you already have a LNL AP.

[wncchester]

"...use the extra money to get a good electric scale."

Can't help but wonder why you would want to do that, at least for powder weighing.

Beam scales are every bit as "accurate", if not more so, than digitals. Beams usually follow a trickler much better than digitals and a properly used beam is every bit as "fast" to use as a digital. No digital gimmick will last even nearly as long and trouble free as a beam. My 46 year old scale is ready to do another 46, still as accurate and sensitive as it was the day I bought it, and mine is no better than any other moderately priced beram scale.

[BigBob3006]

I'm a terrible nit picker when I'm loading rifle. I want five shots to go into one ragged hole. IMHO such fine work can only achieved with a single stage press. Over the years I've learned how much a small change can effect the performance of rifle ammo. Therefore, all rifle ammo should be loaded on a single stage press. An exception to this is .223 ammo that will be fired in one of the ARs.

Pistol ammo can be loaded on a progressive press. I've loaded cartridges from the .25 to the .45 Colt. Since I no longer shoot bullseye matches the ammo I load is just fine. My Combat Commander shoots 10 ring seven round groups at 25 yards. If I have to aim for the center of some cowboys belt buckle, I don't care what part of the buckle has a hole or big dent in it. Gawd, I go through a lot of .45 ACP ammo. If I had load it all on a single stage press, pretty soon I'd be shooting a lot less shooting.

[BigBob3006]

wnnchester,

I was bit by the power scale bug. I tried several, including the Dillon. They just weren't accurate enough. Put a bullet on your scale and watch how often it changes weight readings. I have an Ohaus 505 scale that I've used since 1960. Of course it is a balance beam scale. I can't begin to guess how many weight measurements I've made with that scale. But, if I put a 150gr .308 in the pan and it weighs 150.3gr and I eat dinner and come back, the bullet is still going to weigh 150.3gr. Try that with an electric scale. I did end up with a Lyman 1200 scale. I've learned the tricks to use with it. Turn it on 30 min. before I intend to use it. I'll weigh one of what ever I intend to weigh and use it as a quick check. Recalibrate the scale every 15 minutes or so. The only thing I use it for is to weigh bullets and cases. I keep those that didn't make the weight requirements and weigh them with the Ohaus before final rejection. So the power scales do have a place. But it isn't weighing powder. Not on my bench.

[darkgael]

Start with a single stage press...as has been suggested a number of times. You will always use it, no matter what you acquire later.
I have - just counted them - fifteen presses. Only three are fully progressive. Those are presses that I use for volume reloading - .45, 9mm, .44.
All of my match .223 ammo is loaded on a single stage.
Virtually all of my .30-06 ammo is on a Dillon 550B (a semi- progressive press....and btw..I have not ever felt that I was near the limit of that press when loading .30-06. Go figure.)
Pete

[bbqncigars]

I would echo wncchester on the scale. I wasted some money 'modernizing' my powder weighing going from my trusty 505 to a big name electronic scale. That danged thing needs recalibrating too frequently to trust. I recently upgraded to a near mint 1010 scale. I check zero when I uncover it, and never doubt it's reading. Buy a good beam scale, and trust that gravity will not vary much in your loading room. ;-)

[johnjohn]

When I started this madness ~17 yrs. ago the plan was to load only handgun ammo . Got a Lyman turret, all of a sudden I got a rifle too,and while the turret does an o.k. job I decided a single stage could probably do it more precisly. What do you know Midway had Crushers on sale. Got one of them. Of course as time goes on you "need" the occasional gadget till it gets totally out of control. Start with a single stage.

[wncchester]

" So the power scales do have a place. But it isn't weighing powder. Not on my bench."

BIG ditto.

THE question of "accuracy" with a single stage is in two parts; 1) how accurately does the ram index/align with the die and 2) can a turret/progressive index as accuratly as a single stage is by it's nature.

#1) is determined by the manufactor and they all do quite well with the single stages.

#2) indexing precision is determined by luck each time the turret steps over. Sure, it can be accurate but is it as probable and consistant as with a single stage. He77 NO!

[totaldla]

Get a progressive. People who are too stupid to handle the minor complexity of a progressive shouldn't be reloading in the first place.

[Tim R]

Get a progressive. People who are too stupid to handle the minor complexity of a progressive shouldn't be reloading in the first place.

Mr. totaldla. This statement is a little bold IMHO, there are good people on this board who have given some very good advise. I have been reloading for over 30 years and I still use a single stage press. Why? Because there is some thought a single stage press make more uniform rifle cartridges. I weigh each and every powder charge. Since I use a rifle in competition I like the best ammo I can get.

I have ran a Dillon 650 and a 1050. These are fine presses and they worked really well but they don't fill my needs at this time.

[Stump1]

Single stage is a cheap and easy way to go. You'll get the feel for what you're looking at during each stage, and you'll develop the ability to notice tiny errors. Having 50 rounds in a loading tray, you'll be able to see that they are all identical...or not. Once you get comfortable, move to a progressive. It's nice.

I load all hunting rounds through my single stage press. Range rounds go through the progressive. This is not to start (repeat) a sidebar debate: If I were to load personal protection rounds, I would absolutely want to handle/inspect each round at each stage. Single stage is great for that.

[wncchester]

"Get a progressive. People who are too stupid to handle the minor complexity of a progressive..."

Stupid is as stupid does. Few people have need of a progressive so for them it's not only meaningless, it's pure stupid to have to put up with one.
Those who pant after the same ammo cranked out by the thousands are welcome to it but they sure can't justify saying they are learning much about handloading by doing so no matter how large the piles of auto-processed ammo is.

Some people have a couple of hundred rounds of "experiece" they have repeated a thousand times. Others have loaded and shot much less volume but have vastly more reloading knowledge because they have loaded for many cartridges and weapons using many compnents. Thing is, after a certain point, if you ain't still learning your "experiece" isn't worth much!

It's easy to have a LOT of truly valuable learning experience on a single stage. Not so easy to learn much while mindlessly cranking out a couple thousand more indentical rounds on a progressive tho ... even if you can handle the minor complexity! ??

[Clark]

Someone gave me a Dillon 550B set up for 223 and 9mm.

2 years later, ok, I mounted it on the bench, but have not used it yet.


In the mean time, the two co-ax presses and a little RCBS partner press are getting used.


Someone else would tell the opposite story, and there needs are different.

[spclPatrolGroup]

So turns out I work at the same company as the guy who runs http://ultimatereloader.com/ after watching the video's he has posted thikn I am going to go with the LNL kit.

[k4swb]

There will be a learning curve with a progressive. How steep the curve will be determined by your attention to detail.

I bought red instead of blue and am completely satisfied but it could just as easily have been blue instead of red with the same results.

[farmerboy]

each person has to make up their own mind in the end what they actually need or want... I only load on a single stage and have for the last 15 years and it serves all my needs. I like to do a single process at a time and I actually like to do it that way. I dont care about loading thousands a night, Im more about doing certain steps here and there and my main goal is accuracy. Just loving to roll my own is a plus in this game. If I had a full auto or shot hundreds or thousands of rounds every week steady, then Id probably have to change to keep up with that need but right now a single stage and 50 here or two hundred there is what suits me..

[k4swb]

each person has to make up their own mind in the end what they actually need or want... I only load on a single stage and have for the last 15 years and it serves all my needs. I like to do a single process at a time and I actually like to do it that way. I dont care about loading thousands a night, Im more about doing certain steps here and there and my main goal is accuracy. Just loving to roll my own is a plus in this game. If I had a full auto or shot hundreds or thousands of rounds every week steady, then Id probably have to change to keep up with that need but right now a single stage and 50 here or two hundred there is what suits me..

I felt the same way and loaded many many rounds on a single stage press for both rifle and handgun for about 30 years, until I met and married a woman who likes to shoot. When she goes shooting, she shoots alot!!! She will shoot a 22lr but would rather shoot a .45 ACP or .44 magnum.

I was hurting myself trying to keep up on a single stage. Injuries, arthritus, and old age are catching up real fast so I went with a progressive. Didn't really want to and figured I'd have all kinds of problems. I was wrong and wish I had switched for handgun loading before now.

Now I can keep up and not suffer through all those handle pulls.