need some advice

XferMan · March 8, 2011, 07:26 PM

I shot off my first reloaded ammo today(115gr fmj 9mm) in my springfield xd. Every one of the rounds fired and was fairly accurate, but I did have some issues. There was 22 rounds with Win 231 4.5gr. w/oal of 1.125". I loaded one round at a time and fired to see if the action would respond correctly and only 2 locked the slide back and I had 3 stovepipes. The max oal for my pistol is 1.198(with .02 minused off the actual max). My factory rounds all lock the slide back and their oal is 1.159". I'm wondering if this is the problem. My thinking is if I increase the oal that this increase the pressure and the gun will respond correctly. I don't want to go much higher with the powder. Could this be the problem?

wncchester · March 8, 2011, 08:17 PM

If you want to increase pressure and improve slide reaction without adding powder, seat a little deeper.

noylj · March 8, 2011, 09:05 PM

NO. Don't seat deeper. Pressures can jump quickly, especially in 9x19 or .40S&W.
I always load to the longest COL that fits the magazine and feeds and chambers. Locking the slide is not one of my priorities, but failure to feed or eject are not permitted.
I have compiled all my reloading manuals information.
Based on this compilation, you should be able to go up to 4.7-4.9 gn without any problem. In fact, 5.1gn is one of my preferred loads and works well in all my 9x19s.
Note that all COL numbers are minimum recommended COL.
9x19
Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL
JHP 115 231/HP38 3.5 959 Start 110
FMJ, JHP 115 231/HP38 4.1 1000 Start 115
JHP 115 231/HP38 4.3 1000 Start 115
FMJ 115 231/HP38 4.4 1045 Start 120
Speer GD-HP, TMJ, JHP 115 231/HP38 4.5 1026 Start 118
JHP 115 231/HP38 4.5 1050 121
JHP, FMJ, GDHP 115 231/HP38 4.6 1100 Start 127 1.0900
J-all 115 231/HP38 4.7 1081 Start 124
SPR GDHP 115 231/HP38 4.7 1075 Start 124 1.1250
FMJ/JHP 115 231/HP38 4.7 1100 Max 127
JHP, FMJ 115 231/HP38 4.8 1120 Max 129
FMJ 115 231/HP38 4.9 1135 Max 131
JHP 115 231/HP38 4.9 1253 Max 144
Speer GD-HP, TMJ, JHP 115 231/HP38 5.0 1133 Max 130
Rainier PHP 115 231/HP38 5.0 0 1.0500
J-all 115 231/HP38 5.1 1167 Max 134
GDHP 115 231/HP38 5.1 1167 Max 134 1.1250
JHP 115 231/HP38 5.5 1200 Max 138 1.0150
XTP-HP 115 231/HP38 5.5 Accurate 0

jepp2 · March 8, 2011, 09:16 PM

Quote:

My thinking is if I increase the oal that this increase the pressure

Maybe you didn't type what you were thinking. Increasing the OAL will decrease pressure (not increase as you stated).

I second not seating the bullet deeper but instead increasing the powder charge.

XferMan · March 8, 2011, 10:08 PM

My thinking was wrong. As you can tell I'm new to reloading, but have been enjoying it. In my Lyman manual, which is the only one I have, it states that the max charge is 4.9gr. I think I need to pick up some more manuals. With 4.5 grains the recoil was pretty tame, so I'm not that leary about going higher with the charge. Should I seat the bullet closer to my max oal and increase the charge? Having the slide lock back is not a major priority for me either, just felt it was worth mentioning. The stove piping was a major concern though.

Jim243 · March 9, 2011, 01:25 AM

Most of my OALs for 9mm are 1.090, 1.100, and 1.115. Where are you getting the OALs for these loads from. The OAL for 115 grain is 1.090 (page 341) in the Lyman book. Are you looking at the right page, 9mm Luger?

1.125 is a good OAL for 40 S&W.

And yes 4.9 of 231 is the max load at 1.090 OAL, I use 4.6 grains.

Jim

serf 'rett · March 9, 2011, 10:32 AM

From Hodgon online: 115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester 231
COAL 1.125"
Start 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP
Max 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP

115 GR. LRN Winchester 231
COAL 1.100"
Start 4.3 Max 4.8

From Speer: 115 TMJ RN Win 231
COAL 1.135
Start 4.4 Max 4.9

Lyman was shorter. May need to adjust for your particular bullet.

dlb435 · March 9, 2011, 05:31 PM

I'm using 115 gr bullet, FMJ with 4.7 gr of 231 and COL of 1.14 (a little over the 1.10 recomended) and everything is working well. Try upping your powder by 0.1 grain and see if that helps.
Different manuals put the max load at 4.9 or 5.1 grains for your bullet and powder.
The trick is to use as little charge as you need to get the gun to cycle.

noylj · March 9, 2011, 07:31 PM

The COL in manuals is the minimum recommended COL that will work in most guns.
You, being the reloader, should always load to the maximum COL that works in you gun(s).
My COL for 9x19 is generally 1.140-1.160"
My COl for .40S&W ranges from 1.160-1.210"

BigBob3006 · March 10, 2011, 02:22 AM

Xferman,

According to my information, using the same bullet the C.O.L. IS 1.090". Looks as if your loads are a little long. I'd change the length to the 1.090" and see how the cycle the pistol.

March 8, 2011, 07:26 PM	#1
XferMan Junior Member Join Date: February 26, 2011 Location: South Carolina Posts: 5	need some advice I shot off my first reloaded ammo today(115gr fmj 9mm) in my springfield xd. Every one of the rounds fired and was fairly accurate, but I did have some issues. There was 22 rounds with Win 231 4.5gr. w/oal of 1.125". I loaded one round at a time and fired to see if the action would respond correctly and only 2 locked the slide back and I had 3 stovepipes. The max oal for my pistol is 1.198(with .02 minused off the actual max). My factory rounds all lock the slide back and their oal is 1.159". I'm wondering if this is the problem. My thinking is if I increase the oal that this increase the pressure and the gun will respond correctly. I don't want to go much higher with the powder. Could this be the problem? __________________ “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” — Thomas Jefferson TJ ROCKS!!!

March 8, 2011, 10:08 PM	#5
XferMan Junior Member Join Date: February 26, 2011 Location: South Carolina Posts: 5	thanks My thinking was wrong. As you can tell I'm new to reloading, but have been enjoying it. In my Lyman manual, which is the only one I have, it states that the max charge is 4.9gr. I think I need to pick up some more manuals. With 4.5 grains the recoil was pretty tame, so I'm not that leary about going higher with the charge. Should I seat the bullet closer to my max oal and increase the charge? Having the slide lock back is not a major priority for me either, just felt it was worth mentioning. The stove piping was a major concern though. __________________ “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” — Thomas Jefferson TJ ROCKS!!!

March 9, 2011, 01:25 AM	#6
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Most of my OALs for 9mm are 1.090, 1.100, and 1.115. Where are you getting the OALs for these loads from. The OAL for 115 grain is 1.090 (page 341) in the Lyman book. Are you looking at the right page, 9mm Luger? 1.125 is a good OAL for 40 S&W. And yes 4.9 of 231 is the max load at 1.090 OAL, I use 4.6 grains. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

March 9, 2011, 10:32 AM	#7
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Long Cartridge Sources From Hodgon online: 115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester 231 COAL 1.125" Start 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP Max 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP 115 GR. LRN Winchester 231 COAL 1.100" Start 4.3 Max 4.8 From Speer: 115 TMJ RN Win 231 COAL 1.135 Start 4.4 Max 4.9 Lyman was shorter. May need to adjust for your particular bullet. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

March 10, 2011, 02:22 AM	#10
BigBob3006 Member Join Date: February 19, 2011 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 80	Xferman, According to my information, using the same bullet the C.O.L. IS 1.090". Looks as if your loads are a little long. I'd change the length to the 1.090" and see how the cycle the pistol. __________________ Have a nice day. Good luck and God bless. Bob

March 8, 2011, 08:17 PM	#2
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	If you want to increase pressure and improve slide reaction without adding powder, seat a little deeper.

March 8, 2011, 09:05 PM	#3
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	NO. Don't seat deeper. Pressures can jump quickly, especially in 9x19 or .40S&W. I always load to the longest COL that fits the magazine and feeds and chambers. Locking the slide is not one of my priorities, but failure to feed or eject are not permitted. I have compiled all my reloading manuals information. Based on this compilation, you should be able to go up to 4.7-4.9 gn without any problem. In fact, 5.1gn is one of my preferred loads and works well in all my 9x19s. Note that all COL numbers are minimum recommended COL. 9x19 Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Start/Max Power Factor COL JHP 115 231/HP38 3.5 959 Start 110 FMJ, JHP 115 231/HP38 4.1 1000 Start 115 JHP 115 231/HP38 4.3 1000 Start 115 FMJ 115 231/HP38 4.4 1045 Start 120 Speer GD-HP, TMJ, JHP 115 231/HP38 4.5 1026 Start 118 JHP 115 231/HP38 4.5 1050 121 JHP, FMJ, GDHP 115 231/HP38 4.6 1100 Start 127 1.0900 J-all 115 231/HP38 4.7 1081 Start 124 SPR GDHP 115 231/HP38 4.7 1075 Start 124 1.1250 FMJ/JHP 115 231/HP38 4.7 1100 Max 127 JHP, FMJ 115 231/HP38 4.8 1120 Max 129 FMJ 115 231/HP38 4.9 1135 Max 131 JHP 115 231/HP38 4.9 1253 Max 144 Speer GD-HP, TMJ, JHP 115 231/HP38 5.0 1133 Max 130 Rainier PHP 115 231/HP38 5.0 0 1.0500 J-all 115 231/HP38 5.1 1167 Max 134 GDHP 115 231/HP38 5.1 1167 Max 134 1.1250 JHP 115 231/HP38 5.5 1200 Max 138 1.0150 XTP-HP 115 231/HP38 5.5 Accurate 0

March 9, 2011, 05:31 PM	#8
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	I'm using 115 gr bullet, FMJ with 4.7 gr of 231 and COL of 1.14 (a little over the 1.10 recomended) and everything is working well. Try upping your powder by 0.1 grain and see if that helps. Different manuals put the max load at 4.9 or 5.1 grains for your bullet and powder. The trick is to use as little charge as you need to get the gun to cycle.

March 9, 2011, 07:31 PM	#9
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	The COL in manuals is the minimum recommended COL that will work in most guns. You, being the reloader, should always load to the maximum COL that works in you gun(s). My COL for 9x19 is generally 1.140-1.160" My COl for .40S&W ranges from 1.160-1.210"