Nightcrawler is in pain. - Page 2

Guyon · June 26, 2001, 02:16 PM

The worst I've felt was a 3 1/2" magnum turkey load. I was patterning my new turkey gun this spring and trying various loads. Since my 870 Turkey gun would handle 3 1/2" loads, I picked up a box of Federal #6 to see what they'd do.

I only had to put one shot through the gun to tell me that I would be sticking with 2 3/4" or 3" loads. Damn thing nearly took my head off. I wasn't expecting such sharp recoil and my right hand (trigger hand) actually hit me in the nose. One more of these suckers and I'd probably have had a flinch for life.

The smaller loads patterned better anyway, with the 3" loads just beating the smaller 2 3/4" in shot density. FWIW, Winchester shells outperformed Federal in my gun.

Dave McC · June 26, 2001, 03:15 PM

Guyon, the same load you were using would be fine fired from a 10 lb shotgun. Bet yours weighs around 7 1/2 lbs.

Fred Kimble, market hunter and the supposed inventor of choking, advocated using 1 1/2 oz of shot from a 6 gauge like his.

Even in the days of my youth, loads ran under 1 1/2 oz,including goose loads, for 12 gauges. The increasing dependence on bigger loads has turned a reasonably heavy and suitable 12 ga shotgun into a overly light(for the load) flinchbuilder. My pre steel goose load was #3 shot, 1 3/8 oz, and lots of Canada geese could attest to its effectiveness.
Got some with a 16 ga, using 4s or 3s, but I had to have them close over the dekes.

Maybe 8 years ago, I did a lot of patterning to find the best turkey load for Frankenstein. The best patterns came from the Remington Duplex 4/6 loads, a 3" mag barnburner that rocked me pretty good.

Out of 5 loads I tried, the second best one(about 3 pellets less in the turkey target) was a 1 1/4 oz pheasant load, with hard shot and a 2 3/4" case. The Law of Diminishing Returns governs how much lead one can squeeze through a 12 ga tube at a time. And that's with Frankensteins' long forcing cone.

And the question more folks need to ask is if the bigger loads kill any better. The answer is yes, sometimes.Maybe.

It's not how much shot goes through the bbl,it's how much ends up in the right place in the target.

Long shot columns tend to deform more shot,both numerically and percentage-wise. If it doesn't hit the target, it's useless.

The More Is Better Principle is unreliable when it comes to shotguns.

If I were to set up a heavy waterfowl shotgun now,for $%^* steel shot, it'd be a 10 lb gun, either 12 ga 3" or 10 ga 3 1/2".

Guyon · June 27, 2001, 05:02 PM

Yep, Dave, you're close. It weighs 7 1/4 lbs. according to the Remington website, and all I've added are some Tru-Glo turkey sights.

I've probably shot my last 3 1/2" out of it. The 3" shells pattern better with less recoil. And of course, plenty of turkeys have been taken with 2 3/4" shells.

scottaz · June 28, 2001, 12:26 AM

The pachmayers work really well. On my Nef it took all the sting out of it, Just a shove now. Used to leave bruises but the pad stopped that.

Dave McC · June 28, 2001, 04:29 AM

Factory nominal weights are never totally accurate. Wood varies in density,metal components in dimension.

One time for the State, I weighed about 6 riot bbled 870s from the armory. They ran from 6lbs,10 oz to 7 lbs, 2 1/2 oz, if memory serves.

While lots of factors affect how we feel recoil, the quick fix for too much kick is to check your form, then reduce the load.

Scott, The NEF, their predecessors the H&Rs and similiar utility singles are delightful to carry and with proper loads,shoot. Just because it has a 3 inch chamber doesn't mean it HAS to be shot with barnburner loads.1 oz loads from that NEF will work for most game, except turkey and waterfowl.

And,the better pads do help,if fit and form are
good....

June 26, 2001, 02:16 PM	#26
Guyon Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2000 Location: Over the Hills and Through the Woods, Tennessee Posts: 1,207	The worst I've felt was a 3 1/2" magnum turkey load. I was patterning my new turkey gun this spring and trying various loads. Since my 870 Turkey gun would handle 3 1/2" loads, I picked up a box of Federal #6 to see what they'd do. I only had to put one shot through the gun to tell me that I would be sticking with 2 3/4" or 3" loads. Damn thing nearly took my head off. I wasn't expecting such sharp recoil and my right hand (trigger hand) actually hit me in the nose. One more of these suckers and I'd probably have had a flinch for life. The smaller loads patterned better anyway, with the 3" loads just beating the smaller 2 3/4" in shot density. FWIW, Winchester shells outperformed Federal in my gun. __________________ Gun control should just be about hitting your target.

June 27, 2001, 05:02 PM	#28
Guyon Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2000 Location: Over the Hills and Through the Woods, Tennessee Posts: 1,207	Yep, Dave, you're close. It weighs 7 1/4 lbs. according to the Remington website, and all I've added are some Tru-Glo turkey sights. I've probably shot my last 3 1/2" out of it. The 3" shells pattern better with less recoil. And of course, plenty of turkeys have been taken with 2 3/4" shells. __________________ Gun control should just be about hitting your target.

June 26, 2001, 03:15 PM	#27
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Guyon, the same load you were using would be fine fired from a 10 lb shotgun. Bet yours weighs around 7 1/2 lbs. Fred Kimble, market hunter and the supposed inventor of choking, advocated using 1 1/2 oz of shot from a 6 gauge like his. Even in the days of my youth, loads ran under 1 1/2 oz,including goose loads, for 12 gauges. The increasing dependence on bigger loads has turned a reasonably heavy and suitable 12 ga shotgun into a overly light(for the load) flinchbuilder. My pre steel goose load was #3 shot, 1 3/8 oz, and lots of Canada geese could attest to its effectiveness. Got some with a 16 ga, using 4s or 3s, but I had to have them close over the dekes. Maybe 8 years ago, I did a lot of patterning to find the best turkey load for Frankenstein. The best patterns came from the Remington Duplex 4/6 loads, a 3" mag barnburner that rocked me pretty good. Out of 5 loads I tried, the second best one(about 3 pellets less in the turkey target) was a 1 1/4 oz pheasant load, with hard shot and a 2 3/4" case. The Law of Diminishing Returns governs how much lead one can squeeze through a 12 ga tube at a time. And that's with Frankensteins' long forcing cone. And the question more folks need to ask is if the bigger loads kill any better. The answer is yes, sometimes.Maybe. It's not how much shot goes through the bbl,it's how much ends up in the right place in the target. Long shot columns tend to deform more shot,both numerically and percentage-wise. If it doesn't hit the target, it's useless. The More Is Better Principle is unreliable when it comes to shotguns. If I were to set up a heavy waterfowl shotgun now,for $%^* steel shot, it'd be a 10 lb gun, either 12 ga 3" or 10 ga 3 1/2".

June 28, 2001, 12:26 AM	#29
scottaz Member Join Date: March 25, 2001 Location: Cave Creek AZ Posts: 18	The pachmayers work really well. On my Nef it took all the sting out of it, Just a shove now. Used to leave bruises but the pad stopped that.

June 28, 2001, 04:29 AM	#30
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Factory nominal weights are never totally accurate. Wood varies in density,metal components in dimension. One time for the State, I weighed about 6 riot bbled 870s from the armory. They ran from 6lbs,10 oz to 7 lbs, 2 1/2 oz, if memory serves. While lots of factors affect how we feel recoil, the quick fix for too much kick is to check your form, then reduce the load. Scott, The NEF, their predecessors the H&Rs and similiar utility singles are delightful to carry and with proper loads,shoot. Just because it has a 3 inch chamber doesn't mean it HAS to be shot with barnburner loads.1 oz loads from that NEF will work for most game, except turkey and waterfowl. And,the better pads do help,if fit and form are good....