TC Encore sights

ocharry · May 8, 2017, 10:18 AM

ok i need some input from you guys

my son has this encore that he got a 45-70 barrel for,,,,and he said "Dad can you work up a deer load for this?"

he lives in Ohio and this is one of the rifle calibers they can use now

Sure give it to me and i will work on a load that wont kill on both ends

so i loaded a few different rounds and yesterday i was at the shop to shoot ,,,wow,,with the loads down in the trapdoor range 12-1300fps this thing is shooting 2+' high at 50yrds,, even with the rear sight all the way down

i had 4 different loads made up just for starters,,,one of them was a load from the marlin data ,,,wow,,,those hurt,,,but they were low and i got the thing to shoot ,,,but i dont want the loads that hot,,,i mean its for white tail,,not cape buffalo

i would like a taller front sight,,,,does anyone offer different front sights??,,can i change it??? looks like it screws on

from the impact point i would like to make at least a 5/16" change

any thoughts??

thx
ocharry

NoSecondBest · May 8, 2017, 11:43 AM

Two thoughts: go to a lighter bullet (you didn't say what bullet you were using, but I'm guessing 405g)? Try a 350g such as the Hornady or the 300g Hornady.....both very good bullets. That will reduce the recoil significantly and you can sneak the powder charge up a bit to increase the MV and this will lower the POI of the gun. FWIW, I shoot a LOT of 45-70 and I can attest that those two bullets can shoot very good groups and will easily kill any deer in North America. Try what I suggested and you should get the results you're looking for. PM if you have any questions. Good luck.

ocharry · May 9, 2017, 04:48 PM

well i used a 300gr bullet and a 350 and a 385 and a 400

the 400 with the turned up load was the only one that the sights were able to deal with,,,all the other bullets were lead and loaded down to around 1250fps and every one of them were 20+" high at 50 yards.

i too have been loading and shooting 45-70 for a long time,,,for BPCG and sillywets as we called them....i also loaded this cal for cowboy action in long range rifle,,both single shot and lever gun...and i hunt with a lever gun for deer here at home

i agree with you on the fact that a 300gr bullet is plenty,,,i just got to get it to land where i want it too,,,,and 2 feet high aint it

i have never had one act like this,,,i mean 2' at 50yrds,,,heck i missed the whole target the first and second shot,,,i held at the bottom of the target backer and put a hole 1/2" down from the top of the backer

so i been thinking on this for a day or so and i am sure to cure this it is gona take a taller front sight,,,how much will be the question,,,,,the X's and guzinta's will be the next problem

ocharry

NoSecondBest · May 9, 2017, 05:30 PM

The formula for calculating front sight height to change POI is on Brownell's site. They also sell a great selection of front sights. Go on there and you'll be able to figure out the height you need to get you where you want to be.

johnwilliamson062 · May 11, 2017, 09:58 PM

Had the same problem.
When I called S&W the people had no clue about the Encore. I hear they only took 7 people from TC when they bought and some of those people id not stay.

Anyways, E. Arthur Brown had both the product and the knowledge to solve my problem.

All that said, I found the 45-70 is a whole lot of gun for white tail at the ranges I find myself shooting. I found I had to load pretty heavy bullets to get much accuracy. And I had to load them pretty stout to get a very long point blank range.

ocharry · May 12, 2017, 10:44 AM

i ordered the .470 sight from e.a. brown

that was about the only option unless i wanted to change the whole sight picture,,,but i like the fiber optic so i did some calculating and some times and guzinta and i mocked up a sight that would be that high and it changed the impact point down to 2" high at 50 yards,,,,not a real good sight pic but good enough to verify the numbers

john i am trying to get this 300gr lfn bullet to shoot so it dont hurt so much,,,man those turned up loads are brutal in this light rifle

but anyway i think with this bullet and trap door load data it is going to be pretty nice...it is showing promise even with the crud sight i fixed up....lol

i started with the bottom load and H4198 which according to the book was 30gr,, last load i used was 31gr. and 1500fps,,,IIRC and i think the impact point will come down a little more as the velocity goes up...i have a new batch of 5 with 32gr. waiting on the sight to get here to try out

with the 31gr load i have sight adjustment that i didnt have before so it is coming....just need load work and i can give this thing back to my boy

ocharry

johnwilliamson062 · May 13, 2017, 10:07 PM

I think everything I could get to shoot well was over 325 grn. I think that was the weight of one of the heavier Hornady bullets and I could not get it to shoot well. Ok, but it wasn't acceptable for me. I also decided the factory load in those is also designed with the 16" marlin guide guns in mind using a relatively fast burning powder that seemed snappy. I base all of that off of recoil.
The only factory load I could get to shoot was a 405 grn load from Remington I believe. Labeled for bear and elk and I don't doubt it was up to the job.

The real problem was the drop over my shooting ranges. My muzzle loader shoots much flatter. Calculating drop, Kentucky windage, counting clicks, etc are all great for target shooting, but when I'm hunting from 25-200 yards I want as little drop as possible. I'd much rather push a 220 grn. bullet a whole lot faster out of a 357 max.

I really liked shooting the 45-70 with the lighter loads and it was a ton of fun. I expect to get a Ruger number one in 45-70 for target shooting and other fun in the future. I just could not find any loads I felt were particularly well suited for white tail.

May 8, 2017, 10:18 AM	#1
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 687	TC Encore sights ok i need some input from you guys my son has this encore that he got a 45-70 barrel for,,,,and he said "Dad can you work up a deer load for this?" he lives in Ohio and this is one of the rifle calibers they can use now Sure give it to me and i will work on a load that wont kill on both ends so i loaded a few different rounds and yesterday i was at the shop to shoot ,,,wow,,with the loads down in the trapdoor range 12-1300fps this thing is shooting 2+' high at 50yrds,, even with the rear sight all the way down i had 4 different loads made up just for starters,,,one of them was a load from the marlin data ,,,wow,,,those hurt,,,but they were low and i got the thing to shoot ,,,but i dont want the loads that hot,,,i mean its for white tail,,not cape buffalo i would like a taller front sight,,,,does anyone offer different front sights??,,can i change it??? looks like it screws on from the impact point i would like to make at least a 5/16" change any thoughts?? thx ocharry __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

May 9, 2017, 04:48 PM	#3
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 687	well i used a 300gr bullet and a 350 and a 385 and a 400 the 400 with the turned up load was the only one that the sights were able to deal with,,,all the other bullets were lead and loaded down to around 1250fps and every one of them were 20+" high at 50 yards. i too have been loading and shooting 45-70 for a long time,,,for BPCG and sillywets as we called them....i also loaded this cal for cowboy action in long range rifle,,both single shot and lever gun...and i hunt with a lever gun for deer here at home i agree with you on the fact that a 300gr bullet is plenty,,,i just got to get it to land where i want it too,,,,and 2 feet high aint it i have never had one act like this,,,i mean 2' at 50yrds,,,heck i missed the whole target the first and second shot,,,i held at the bottom of the target backer and put a hole 1/2" down from the top of the backer so i been thinking on this for a day or so and i am sure to cure this it is gona take a taller front sight,,,how much will be the question,,,,,the X's and guzinta's will be the next problem ocharry __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

May 12, 2017, 10:44 AM	#6
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 687	i ordered the .470 sight from e.a. brown that was about the only option unless i wanted to change the whole sight picture,,,but i like the fiber optic so i did some calculating and some times and guzinta and i mocked up a sight that would be that high and it changed the impact point down to 2" high at 50 yards,,,,not a real good sight pic but good enough to verify the numbers john i am trying to get this 300gr lfn bullet to shoot so it dont hurt so much,,,man those turned up loads are brutal in this light rifle but anyway i think with this bullet and trap door load data it is going to be pretty nice...it is showing promise even with the crud sight i fixed up....lol i started with the bottom load and H4198 which according to the book was 30gr,, last load i used was 31gr. and 1500fps,,,IIRC and i think the impact point will come down a little more as the velocity goes up...i have a new batch of 5 with 32gr. waiting on the sight to get here to try out with the 31gr load i have sight adjustment that i didnt have before so it is coming....just need load work and i can give this thing back to my boy ocharry __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

May 8, 2017, 11:43 AM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Two thoughts: go to a lighter bullet (you didn't say what bullet you were using, but I'm guessing 405g)? Try a 350g such as the Hornady or the 300g Hornady.....both very good bullets. That will reduce the recoil significantly and you can sneak the powder charge up a bit to increase the MV and this will lower the POI of the gun. FWIW, I shoot a LOT of 45-70 and I can attest that those two bullets can shoot very good groups and will easily kill any deer in North America. Try what I suggested and you should get the results you're looking for. PM if you have any questions. Good luck.

May 9, 2017, 05:30 PM	#4
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	The formula for calculating front sight height to change POI is on Brownell's site. They also sell a great selection of front sights. Go on there and you'll be able to figure out the height you need to get you where you want to be.

May 11, 2017, 09:58 PM	#5
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Had the same problem. When I called S&W the people had no clue about the Encore. I hear they only took 7 people from TC when they bought and some of those people id not stay. Anyways, E. Arthur Brown had both the product and the knowledge to solve my problem. All that said, I found the 45-70 is a whole lot of gun for white tail at the ranges I find myself shooting. I found I had to load pretty heavy bullets to get much accuracy. And I had to load them pretty stout to get a very long point blank range.

May 13, 2017, 10:07 PM	#7
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I think everything I could get to shoot well was over 325 grn. I think that was the weight of one of the heavier Hornady bullets and I could not get it to shoot well. Ok, but it wasn't acceptable for me. I also decided the factory load in those is also designed with the 16" marlin guide guns in mind using a relatively fast burning powder that seemed snappy. I base all of that off of recoil. The only factory load I could get to shoot was a 405 grn load from Remington I believe. Labeled for bear and elk and I don't doubt it was up to the job. The real problem was the drop over my shooting ranges. My muzzle loader shoots much flatter. Calculating drop, Kentucky windage, counting clicks, etc are all great for target shooting, but when I'm hunting from 25-200 yards I want as little drop as possible. I'd much rather push a 220 grn. bullet a whole lot faster out of a 357 max. I really liked shooting the 45-70 with the lighter loads and it was a ton of fun. I expect to get a Ruger number one in 45-70 for target shooting and other fun in the future. I just could not find any loads I felt were particularly well suited for white tail.