Family Heirloom....or new gun....??? - Page 2

Wildernesshunter · April 14, 2017, 10:42 AM

Well, I have come full circle.

I thought a year ago the 270 was my Huckleberry.....but then I started to study the 6.5 Grendel and got distracted.

A couple of you on here have brought me back to my senses.....

It will be a 270 Win.

Why?????

If I want low recoil and am satisfied with Grendel ballistics, I just load a 130gr Berger on about 52gr of H4831 (I have a ton of that powder)....and "voila", I have a 2,600fps load with low recoil and deadly out to 300-400 yards.

I will also have the flexibility to..... if the hunt presents itself, to kill bigger things than deer. Load up some 150's with max powder and I'm tossing that rock at 2,800+ fps. Something the Grendel can't do, and a shade better than a 260 or 7mm-08.

So, I have my eye on a Ruger American in 270. What I have read, I am pretty impressed with the gun....but interested in opinions.

.......

alex0535 · April 14, 2017, 11:34 AM

Recoil pad and some reduced recoil ammo will likely make it a lot more tolerable.

Pathfinder45 · April 14, 2017, 12:27 PM

As far as bolt action calibers go, I have nothing but admiration for the 30-'06. It would probably be my first choice if I lived in Alaska. But I don't, so I have long ago chosen, and been entirely satisfied with the 270 Winchester. Not at all attracted to the latest plastic innovations, I insist on a traditional model 70 Winchester, in Walnut, of course. But that rifle of your Grandfather's is certainly respectable. Of the latest calibers, the 6.5 Creedmoore has a lot of merits; but I will stick with the 270.

Paul B. · April 14, 2017, 04:33 PM

I think part of your problem is the stock. A steel buttplate and too much drop certainly go a long way to creating hurt. I'm thinking if you can find a stock from a Remington 700 BDL that already has a good recoil pad, I think you'd find the kick ain't so bad. I have there M700s, a BDL, Classic, both 30-06's and another Classic in .35 Whelen. My load for the 06's pushes a 180 gr. Hornady SP to very close to 2800 FPS andes, it will get you attention as does the recoil from the Whelen with a 250 gr. bullet pushing 2600 FPS.
One of my good friends has a 721 in 30-06 and that thing does hurt a bit but I'm not all that recoil shy. On my big boomers I use a Past recoil shield, at least from the bench. It gets in the way on a hunt and I never seem to feel the kick or hear the bang when shooting at game.
Paul B.

eastbank · April 14, 2017, 07:18 PM

not realy better than a .260 or a 7mm08, both will toss a 139gr at 2800fps with a high B C along with less recoil. eastbank.

**4V50 Gary** · April 14, 2017, 07:53 PM

I'd get a new Weaver K-4 and leave it alone.

Want something different? Just have a new stock made.

Now, if there's a hole behind the steel buttplate, you can put in a mercury recoil reducer.

Straitshot · April 15, 2017, 04:16 PM

I have and shoot several 45-70's in different rifle configurations. I have a Sharps saddle rifle I have on occasion used for hunting. When at the range shooting from the bench it would begin to hurt so I bought one of these and just slip it on while on the range and when hunting I take it off. Extremely simple and works really well.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pachm...oPFw&gclsrc=ds

J.G. Terry · April 17, 2017, 09:07 PM

My old 721 is a 300 H&H. The rifle had already had a pad added. Put a new pad. This rifle has the straight stock. An option at the time with these rifle was a stock with way more drop for using iron sights. More kick there. I go along with leaving your family rifle alone. Modifications can't be undone. There's a bunch of nice entry level rifles that meet your needs. A little shopping is suggested and leave the old 721 alone.

Wildernesshunter · April 23, 2017, 10:21 AM

The 'ole 721 will stay as she is..... And I will continue to use her for bigger game, if I can nail down such hunts. For nostalgia, I do want to find an old Weaver K4 or K6 and mount her up.

The news flash is a new gun has been purchased.

I came darn, darn close to buying a Howa MiniAction in 6.5 Grendel, but after playing with ballistic calculators and recoil calculators, I decided the .270 Winchester is about the best choice I could ever make for low recoil and a nice compliment to the "old aught six". And I already have the dies and about 100 pieces of brass.

A Ruger American in 270 Winchester is on the way.

I don't understand why the price was so inexpensive, but I purchased the version with the Copper Mica stock. It was nearly $100 cheaper than the black stock and I don't mind the copper color. I did notice that Ruger doesn't list the Copper Mica as an option on their website any more, so maybe they are just clearance'ing them out.

Joining the 270 will be a Redfield 3-9x40. I did a lot of research and for $154...this scope seemed to be the very best value on the market right now and it is American made and the warranty is second to none.

Here's some good advice that I will follow. 10 ftlbs of recoil would be greatly appreciated and the load below is superior to anything Grendel.

The printed 2009 Hodgdon Annual Reloading Guide has an article in the front on low recoil loads by Ken Kempa.

Using 130gr Barnes TSX 23.6" barrel
1. H4198 37.4gr 2712 fps 2124 ft.lbs. 0.51" group, 42% recoil reduction with 10.4 ft.lbs. of recoil

.......

Berserker · May 4, 2017, 08:49 PM

I have my grandfathers 30-06. I shot 3 bucks with it. Then retired last couple years. I have shot some low pressure hand loads, but even though I never had a bad one, I am reluctant to load to much for it.

I tossed on it, but did put a scope on it. Because I would use it more. For me it is very important rifle.

I debate about putting Timney drop in trigger. I may, I may not. Trigger wouldn't change it to much.

I have also debated about recoil pads. Though I find just putting a sweathshirt and vest on is enough, and probably all I will do.

I don't want to change it to much, but I also want to use it. Meant alot killing a buck with it.

emcon5 · May 5, 2017, 10:42 AM

I know you have made your decision, but keep in mind that for hunting, you are really only looking at one or two shots. Use the recoil pad for range trips, but for the hunt, I wouldn't bother, because if you get a shot at game, you probably won't notice the recoil anyway.

GeauxTide · May 5, 2017, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Use 150 grain bullets for deer. That should tame recoil substantially.

Datz rite.

Wildernesshunter · June 8, 2017, 02:10 PM

I did purchase a recoil pad....and it has made my range experience with all my guns much, much better.

But the Ruger American in .270 Win shot 10 rounds today with impressive accuracy. I am also very pleased with the Redfield 3-9x40. Can't wait to reload for this gun.

Love IT!!!!!!

Pathfinder45 · June 8, 2017, 03:53 PM

I'm glad that all worked out for you.
Regarding the ability to tolerate recoil and other feats of endurance including pain tolerance and the willingness to endure hardship in order to accomplish a task; it strikes me that earlier generations must have been tougher than we are today.
Happy hunting with your new 270.

DaleA · June 8, 2017, 05:33 PM

Quote:

it strikes me that earlier generations must have been tougher than we are today.

Hmmm. I wonder if their expectations of food/housing/life expectancy were just much, much lower than ours.

But overall toughness is relative, I'd like to see one of them persevere to get a favorable resolution on a cable bill when your call to customer service has been routed through at least three third world countries and the hold music is remorselessly Barry Manilow wannabees.

shootsasharps · July 8, 2017, 01:26 PM

Great topic. I inherited many of my grandpa's guns. All small caliber poor man stuff with no real $ value at all. I've hauled them around the country for the last 30 years and have started to curse the burden. I can't get rid of them but my kids don't want them and I don't use them for anything but safe stuffers.

FITASC · July 8, 2017, 02:36 PM

Quote:

I can't get rid of them but my kids don't want them and I don't use them for anything but safe stuffers.

Depending on the type of guns, maybe they can be donated to some youth shooting organization? Pay it forward in some way.

JoeSixpack · July 8, 2017, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FITASC

It is a family heirloom that you seem to regret having because of bad experiences with it in the past. If my thinking is correct, then pass it along to another family member who might appreciate it and go buy what you want.

+1
I'd say this it the best choice, just make sure who ever gets the gun knows the rules.. keep it stock, take care of it, keep it in the family.

If this is not an option, Then the next best option would be to buy another gun, keep this one stock, shoot it on special occasions.

Last option would be to get a different stock so you can shoot the gun, but keep the parts so you can revert back later, changing the stock is not a radical modification.. it should be completely reversible.
Ideally you would keep it as it is, but if that's not an option I don't think it's TOO big a deal.. after all it's your gun now.. and it's still a family heirloom.

Imagine you take it hunting and it gets a scratch, so what? it just says Wildernesshunter owned and used it, look at it as a enhancement of it's family history.
You'd have to look at any modifications in the same light. and what you're purposing is not going to damage the gun.

Deerhunt · July 8, 2017, 11:12 PM

I would say keep the rifle original and in the family and buy a new one that you like for your purposes. My grandpa has a Remington 760 in '06 and even though I probably wouldn't shoot it much it still would mean a lot to me to have it. I know that I would not alter a thing on that gun if I ever got it. Just my .02

Jack O'Conner · July 9, 2017, 05:52 AM

I inherited my Dad's Stevens 22 rifle but sold it because a scope could not be mounted. It was not a tough decision because the rifle had no special meaning to me. It was after all, just a rifle.

My .308 carbine bothered me with muzzle jump every time it was fired. So I sent it to Magna-Port in Michigan. They formed four small slots near the muzzle which has eliminated muzzle jump for me. Cost was about $135.

Jack

Lohman446 · July 9, 2017, 07:08 AM

A gun that you do not enjoy shooting and you do not need for hunting or defense has no value as a gun. No big deal. Think of it as a gun only in terms of securing it and think of it as an heirloom. Build, or have built, an appropriate case for it perhaps with a picture or such of your grandpa and display it for the value it holds in sentiment.

April 14, 2017, 10:42 AM	#26
Wildernesshunter Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2016 Location: Western High Desert Posts: 168	Well, I have come full circle. I thought a year ago the 270 was my Huckleberry.....but then I started to study the 6.5 Grendel and got distracted. A couple of you on here have brought me back to my senses..... It will be a 270 Win. Why????? If I want low recoil and am satisfied with Grendel ballistics, I just load a 130gr Berger on about 52gr of H4831 (I have a ton of that powder)....and "voila", I have a 2,600fps load with low recoil and deadly out to 300-400 yards. I will also have the flexibility to..... if the hunt presents itself, to kill bigger things than deer. Load up some 150's with max powder and I'm tossing that rock at 2,800+ fps. Something the Grendel can't do, and a shade better than a 260 or 7mm-08. So, I have my eye on a Ruger American in 270. What I have read, I am pretty impressed with the gun....but interested in opinions. ....... __________________ John

April 14, 2017, 04:33 PM	#29
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I think part of your problem is the stock. A steel buttplate and too much drop certainly go a long way to creating hurt. I'm thinking if you can find a stock from a Remington 700 BDL that already has a good recoil pad, I think you'd find the kick ain't so bad. I have there M700s, a BDL, Classic, both 30-06's and another Classic in .35 Whelen. My load for the 06's pushes a 180 gr. Hornady SP to very close to 2800 FPS andes, it will get you attention as does the recoil from the Whelen with a 250 gr. bullet pushing 2600 FPS. One of my good friends has a 721 in 30-06 and that thing does hurt a bit but I'm not all that recoil shy. On my big boomers I use a Past recoil shield, at least from the bench. It gets in the way on a hunt and I never seem to feel the kick or hear the bang when shooting at game. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

April 14, 2017, 07:53 PM	#31
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	I'd get a new Weaver K-4 and leave it alone. Want something different? Just have a new stock made. Now, if there's a hole behind the steel buttplate, you can put in a mercury recoil reducer. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 17, 2017, 09:07 PM	#33
J.G. Terry Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2014 Posts: 577	Remington 721...a classic My old 721 is a 300 H&H. The rifle had already had a pad added. Put a new pad. This rifle has the straight stock. An option at the time with these rifle was a stock with way more drop for using iron sights. More kick there. I go along with leaving your family rifle alone. Modifications can't be undone. There's a bunch of nice entry level rifles that meet your needs. A little shopping is suggested and leave the old 721 alone.

April 23, 2017, 10:21 AM	#34
Wildernesshunter Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2016 Location: Western High Desert Posts: 168	The 'ole 721 will stay as she is..... And I will continue to use her for bigger game, if I can nail down such hunts. For nostalgia, I do want to find an old Weaver K4 or K6 and mount her up. The news flash is a new gun has been purchased. I came darn, darn close to buying a Howa MiniAction in 6.5 Grendel, but after playing with ballistic calculators and recoil calculators, I decided the .270 Winchester is about the best choice I could ever make for low recoil and a nice compliment to the "old aught six". And I already have the dies and about 100 pieces of brass. A Ruger American in 270 Winchester is on the way. I don't understand why the price was so inexpensive, but I purchased the version with the Copper Mica stock. It was nearly $100 cheaper than the black stock and I don't mind the copper color. I did notice that Ruger doesn't list the Copper Mica as an option on their website any more, so maybe they are just clearance'ing them out. Joining the 270 will be a Redfield 3-9x40. I did a lot of research and for $154...this scope seemed to be the very best value on the market right now and it is American made and the warranty is second to none. Here's some good advice that I will follow. 10 ftlbs of recoil would be greatly appreciated and the load below is superior to anything Grendel. The printed 2009 Hodgdon Annual Reloading Guide has an article in the front on low recoil loads by Ken Kempa. Using 130gr Barnes TSX 23.6" barrel 1. H4198 37.4gr 2712 fps 2124 ft.lbs. 0.51" group, 42% recoil reduction with 10.4 ft.lbs. of recoil ....... __________________ John

April 14, 2017, 11:34 AM	#27
alex0535 Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2012 Location: Georgia Posts: 908	Recoil pad and some reduced recoil ammo will likely make it a lot more tolerable.

April 14, 2017, 12:27 PM	#28
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	As far as bolt action calibers go, I have nothing but admiration for the 30-'06. It would probably be my first choice if I lived in Alaska. But I don't, so I have long ago chosen, and been entirely satisfied with the 270 Winchester. Not at all attracted to the latest plastic innovations, I insist on a traditional model 70 Winchester, in Walnut, of course. But that rifle of your Grandfather's is certainly respectable. Of the latest calibers, the 6.5 Creedmoore has a lot of merits; but I will stick with the 270.

April 14, 2017, 07:18 PM	#30
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	not realy better than a .260 or a 7mm08, both will toss a 139gr at 2800fps with a high B C along with less recoil. eastbank.

April 15, 2017, 04:16 PM	#32
Straitshot Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2011 Location: West Texas Posts: 199	I have and shoot several 45-70's in different rifle configurations. I have a Sharps saddle rifle I have on occasion used for hunting. When at the range shooting from the bench it would begin to hurt so I bought one of these and just slip it on while on the range and when hunting I take it off. Extremely simple and works really well. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pachm...oPFw&gclsrc=ds

May 4, 2017, 08:49 PM	#35
Berserker Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2015 Location: WI & UP Posts: 284	I have my grandfathers 30-06. I shot 3 bucks with it. Then retired last couple years. I have shot some low pressure hand loads, but even though I never had a bad one, I am reluctant to load to much for it. I tossed on it, but did put a scope on it. Because I would use it more. For me it is very important rifle. I debate about putting Timney drop in trigger. I may, I may not. Trigger wouldn't change it to much. I have also debated about recoil pads. Though I find just putting a sweathshirt and vest on is enough, and probably all I will do. I don't want to change it to much, but I also want to use it. Meant alot killing a buck with it.

May 5, 2017, 10:42 AM	#36
emcon5 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 1999 Location: High Desert NV Posts: 2,850	I know you have made your decision, but keep in mind that for hunting, you are really only looking at one or two shots. Use the recoil pad for range trips, but for the hunt, I wouldn't bother, because if you get a shot at game, you probably won't notice the recoil anyway.

June 8, 2017, 02:10 PM	#38
Wildernesshunter Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2016 Location: Western High Desert Posts: 168	I did purchase a recoil pad....and it has made my range experience with all my guns much, much better. But the Ruger American in .270 Win shot 10 rounds today with impressive accuracy. I am also very pleased with the Redfield 3-9x40. Can't wait to reload for this gun. Love IT!!!!!! __________________ John

June 8, 2017, 03:53 PM	#39
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	I'm glad that all worked out for you. Regarding the ability to tolerate recoil and other feats of endurance including pain tolerance and the willingness to endure hardship in order to accomplish a task; it strikes me that earlier generations must have been tougher than we are today. Happy hunting with your new 270.

July 8, 2017, 01:26 PM	#41
shootsasharps Junior Member Join Date: July 7, 2017 Posts: 11	Great topic. I inherited many of my grandpa's guns. All small caliber poor man stuff with no real $ value at all. I've hauled them around the country for the last 30 years and have started to curse the burden. I can't get rid of them but my kids don't want them and I don't use them for anything but safe stuffers.

July 8, 2017, 11:12 PM	#44
Deerhunt Member Join Date: March 18, 2017 Location: Michigan Posts: 90	I would say keep the rifle original and in the family and buy a new one that you like for your purposes. My grandpa has a Remington 760 in '06 and even though I probably wouldn't shoot it much it still would mean a lot to me to have it. I know that I would not alter a thing on that gun if I ever got it. Just my .02 __________________ "Well a gun that's UNloaded and cocked ain't good for nothin"-John Wayne as Rooster Cogburn.

July 9, 2017, 05:52 AM	#45
Jack O'Conner Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Manatee County, Florida Posts: 1,976	I inherited my Dad's Stevens 22 rifle but sold it because a scope could not be mounted. It was not a tough decision because the rifle had no special meaning to me. It was after all, just a rifle. My .308 carbine bothered me with muzzle jump every time it was fired. So I sent it to Magna-Port in Michigan. They formed four small slots near the muzzle which has eliminated muzzle jump for me. Cost was about $135. Jack __________________ Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.

July 9, 2017, 07:08 AM	#46
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	A gun that you do not enjoy shooting and you do not need for hunting or defense has no value as a gun. No big deal. Think of it as a gun only in terms of securing it and think of it as an heirloom. Build, or have built, an appropriate case for it perhaps with a picture or such of your grandpa and display it for the value it holds in sentiment.