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Old September 17, 2021, 04:02 PM   #1
Lavan
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Fire setback bullets. Yay or nay?

Took the 45 auto out yesterday.
I noticed a couple of rounds shorter in the box than the others.
Looked at them. The bullets in those rounds had set back.

Undoubtedly from my cycling the same ones repeatedly while "fondling" the pistol.

I looked up "Setback Bullet." The concensus at whatever site I found said they should not be fired.

So I didn't. Now I'm wondering if it's just OCD.

Soooo.... my question is: would you fire the setback one/s?

Setback was about 1/8 " but my wondering is whether 45 ACP (factory Rem 230 gr hardball) creates enough pressure to be a hazard.




Now if these had been high intensity ammo, I of course would not fire them.

What do you think on the 45 ACP?


Oh, and yes. I gotta get me some snap caps.
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Old September 17, 2021, 04:14 PM   #2
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“fondling” + live rounds? Please tell me I must have read or understood this wrong.
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Old September 17, 2021, 06:58 PM   #3
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Standard pressure .45 Auto?

How deep set back?

I’d probably mark them with a sharpie, so I know they aren’t “normal”, set them aside, and shoot them next time out to the range.
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Old September 17, 2021, 07:12 PM   #4
Lavan
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STORM2

Easy there. It's a house gun. I keep it in the coin safe locked and loaded.

When I get it out, I have to eject the chambered round.

And..... I've been reloading after the ...fondling.... with the same round too often.

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Old September 17, 2021, 07:31 PM   #5
Jim Watson
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I would (do) check more often and shoot when set back a lot less than 1/8".
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Old September 17, 2021, 09:41 PM   #6
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I wouldn’t shoot it. I reload. I’d pull the bullet and reload it.
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Old September 17, 2021, 10:59 PM   #7
HiBC
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Its good information that setback ammo can significantly increase pressure.
Thats not advice.
You have created a situation that poses an unknown (to me) level of risk.

Will you abdicate responsibility for the risk to some anonymous voice on the internet?

If I advise you to shoot it and you blow a case, what good will it do to say "HiBC told me to!" No, I won't do that.

How much is that one damaged round worth? What is the worst that could happen?

Its a bit like evaluating a burrito left unrefrigerated overnight. .

It will be your food poison experience...but its probably OK...maybe. Till its not.

I'd suggest refining your process. Evaluate your fondling.

So,my question to you.... Should I eat the burrito?

Last edited by HiBC; September 17, 2021 at 11:05 PM.
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Old September 17, 2021, 11:29 PM   #8
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1/8" of setback is significant. Unfortunately, without knowing the original pressure it's impossible to know the new pressure--you only know that it's higher.

Heavier (longer) bullet loadings tend to have pressure increase more for a given amount of setback in a given caliber because there tends to be less space behind the bullet already due to the longer bullets. So, for example, 1/8" of setback with 230gr FMJ is going to result in higher pressure than 1/8" setback with 185gr FMJ assuming they both start at the same pressure. Again, that doesn't tell you what the pressure will be, only that the longer bullet loading's pressure is going to tend to rise more for a given amount of setback than the shorter bullet loading's pressure.

Will it be safe to fire them? I think it probably would be--but it's impossible to say for certain.
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Old September 18, 2021, 12:44 AM   #9
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Depends--if your confident you know the burn characteristics of your powder and how it may or may not change under compression (if in fact it is being compressed) then I'd fire it. If not, I would pull the bullet and start over again. I usually toss the powder if it's been compressed.
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Old September 18, 2021, 05:34 AM   #10
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Just pull them and reload them, not worth the risk. You may be turning a low pressure round into a high pressure round. Following proper safety procedures never hurt anybody.
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Old September 18, 2021, 05:59 AM   #11
eflyguy
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This is the kind of stuff that scares me at the range. What is the guy next to me shooting?

Witnessed two squibs during USPSA matches and if the officer hadn't screamed out the competitors would have likely kept going.
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Old September 18, 2021, 07:23 AM   #12
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Lavan: May I suggest better terminology. Unloading the gun sounds much safer than fondling. I have never heard of fondling a gun before cleaning. This is the sort of verbiage that sends alarms to instructors and RSOs. Yes, I hold NRA CRSO credentials and I offer this as a suggestion, accept it as you see fit…..(instructor rings bell).
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Old September 18, 2021, 09:47 AM   #13
raimius
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Personally, no I would not shoot a set back round. It will fire with some unknown increase in pressure that may compromise the case or pistol itself. I have seen a quality 1911 handle a double-charged load, and the user got away with only a small piece of brass embedded in his face. I wouldn't recommend it!

Also, what are you doing with this gun that brings you to repeatedly rechamber rounds? If it is a defensive gun, you should be practicing with it, and that will drive shooting the rounds. If you are doing a LOT of dryfire practice, consider rotating the rounds within the mag to prevent this.
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Old September 18, 2021, 11:21 AM   #14
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Doing some Googling, I am seeing pressure data for the 45 at 21,000 psi.
Plus .... gov't limits for service ammo at 17,000 psi.

and... +P at 33,000 psi.

So.... I'm glad I tossed that round.

Why take chances?
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Old September 18, 2021, 12:21 PM   #15
Jim Watson
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Quote:
and... +P at 33,000 psi.
No.
.45 ACP +P maximum is 23000 psi.
I am sure just a typo on your part but now you know why I don't often post specific load data on the internet.
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Old September 18, 2021, 12:46 PM   #16
Lavan
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This was the site. Looked again. Gee, they sell special BARRELS!

http://karllippard.com/military/docs...rel-Safety.pdf

It's in the RED sentence on p.2

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Old September 18, 2021, 01:13 PM   #17
Jim Watson
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I read the red. It says PROOF pressure is 33000 psi. That is a 33% overload from .45+P maximum probable sample mean in SAAMI-speak. The gun only has to stand up to one shot at that level to pass proof.

Ol Karl kind of glosses over the change from crusher gauge to piezoelectric transducers.
The crusher level for .45 ACP has only crept up to 18000 CUP.
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Old September 18, 2021, 01:28 PM   #18
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I read the link, its a scare tactic AD for their "NCO barrel" disguised as a technical article.

Do you know the difference between 17,000 and 21,000psi? Bet your pistol doesn't.

Also note that the author makes no mention of the rest of your 1911A1 handling the "increased pressures" only their barrel....

People have been conditioned to think in terms of anything over the published limit is DANGEROUS, when reality is somewhat different.

ALL the "safety" specs for ammo and guns handling the pressure are WELL WITHIN the safe margin by a considerable amount. Even proof level loads are "safe" the gun does not blow up, or fail. They are PROOF that the gun will survive high pressure intact and UNHARMED.

Now, as to your setback round, no, don't shoot it, simply because its an unknown, In a low pressure round like the .45ACP its unlikely to raise pressure to actual dangerous levels BUT there's no way to know for certain, so we don't shoot it.

As a handloader, I would just have pulled the bullet and reused it and the case (I never reuse the powder from a factory round or any round where it is not positively identified). Logic suggests that if you put the setback round into a kinetic pullet and "pull" the bullet back out to factory spec length, you will be back to factory spec pressure, and so safe to shoot. Me, I'd just break it all the way down, but that's just me.
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Old September 18, 2021, 02:45 PM   #19
Lavan
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I just figured it was one round and I could toss it.

I don't even know where my bullet puller is anymore.
All I load now is 45 ACP mid range for the Gold Cup.

A blistering 3.5 gr Bullseye and 185 gr WC.

The one that set back was a factory hardball. I keep a few of those for my Govt model and keep it for the house gun.
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Old September 18, 2021, 02:55 PM   #20
Jim Watson
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I am loading 200 gr RN (because not all my guns will feed SWC) and 3.6 gr Bull.

Setback of a roundnose factory load sounds unusual. I once had a supply of real USGI hardball with the asphaltum sealed bullets. They weren't going anywhere until fired.

Federal ammo has a cannelure in the case at the base of the bullet to prevent setback.
I applied one when I was looking at Carry Reloads (Ooh, you scary guy.)

I just the other day noticed a slightly set back 9mm JHP that had been in and out of the gun a few times as I exchanged it for the cheap stuff to shoot GSSF with. I always check. I put it in the practice box and shot it later, no "pressure signs" but it was not set back much.
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Old September 18, 2021, 05:27 PM   #21
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Thanks for the link. I’m printing those pages.
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Old September 19, 2021, 12:45 PM   #22
Lima Oscar 7
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No.
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Old September 19, 2021, 08:19 PM   #23
bedbugbilly
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Bullet set back = less case volume = higher pressure

Everyone has "free will" and only you know what the rounds are - i.e. commercial rounds or your reloads and where the powder charge falls on the loading data.
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Old September 20, 2021, 06:56 AM   #24
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I've been there and I wouldn't shoot those rounds. Just too much risk...

I used to carry my M1911 as my daily concealed carry gun. I often unloaded it when I put it away or changed to other ammo for target shooting. I carried it with MagSafe Kevlar defeating rounds and after awhile they all got set back.

Tony
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Old September 20, 2021, 12:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
I carried it with MagSafe Kevlar defeating rounds and after awhile they all got set back.
I would discontinue carry of that ammo if that happened to me. And, I don't mean that box, I mean that brand...

Bullet setback in .45acp does not have to happen. If it does, to me, its a sign that the ammo was not made to the highest possible standard.
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