The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 26, 2021, 06:20 PM   #1
Prof Young
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2007
Location: Illinois - down state
Posts: 2,219
Mitchell Mauser

Local range/lgs has a Mitchell Mauser for $900. (See pics below. Yeah, I should have taken more.) Anyway it's pretty well used but I can still see the rifling. The bolt hangs up on the follower when you try to close it without any ammo in place. Is that normal? It has a sling and what looks to be an original bayonet.
Talk to me please.

Life is good.
Prof Young
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mauser one.jpg (92.8 KB, 283 views)
File Type: jpg Mauser Two.jpg (71.2 KB, 243 views)

Last edited by Prof Young; January 26, 2021 at 06:27 PM.
Prof Young is offline  
Old January 26, 2021, 07:00 PM   #2
Shane Tuttle
Staff
 
Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 9,252
I've dealt with Mitchell's Mausers in the past. If it were me, I would take a HARD pass.
__________________
If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language.

Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Shane Tuttle is offline  
Old January 26, 2021, 07:04 PM   #3
mikejonestkd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Brockport, NY
Posts: 3,599
Agreeing with Shane, mitchells are usually refurbished parts guns, hastily assembled, given a patina to look matching, and then remarked with fake stamps.

Avoid at all costs
__________________
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
mikejonestkd is offline  
Old January 26, 2021, 07:08 PM   #4
Ricklin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: SW Washington state
Posts: 1,753
Better choices

Direct your browser over to an auction site or two. You can do far better than a Mitchell's.

They put much effort into looking good. And that's all.
__________________
ricklin
Freedom is not free
Ricklin is offline  
Old January 26, 2021, 07:33 PM   #5
Prof Young
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2007
Location: Illinois - down state
Posts: 2,219
Thanks.

Thanks for the warnings. I kind of figured that this one is over priced and I already knew the numbers didn't match. If they lower the price some I may look again.

Life is good.
Prof Young
Prof Young is offline  
Old January 26, 2021, 09:10 PM   #6
ericuda
Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2012
Location: nwkansas
Posts: 44
I am more curious, inherited a mauser myself. Marked m48 on top of receiver and hpj with foreign letters followed by 44 on left side. Mine has matching k130## on bolt, receiver and base plate. Has same number stamped on stock. Has leather sling and a bag of miscellaneous parts with oil can, etc.

I loaded some reduced h4895 loads and it is kinda fun.
ericuda is offline  
Old January 26, 2021, 10:57 PM   #7
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 24,310
Mitchell's Mausers were $300 overpriced when they were priced at $400.
$900 is just barking stupid, and so is anyone who pays that.

They have a reputation for force matching parts, and remarking parts to make them APPEAR to be original and pricing their "frankenmausers" as if they were all original and I will not have anything to do with any of their guns.

Unless you give me one at no cost, but if Mitchell is getting even penny one out of it, they're not getting it from me.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 27, 2021, 06:41 AM   #8
JT-AR-MG42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2008
Posts: 551
Quote:
The bolt hangs up on the follower when you try to close it without any ammo in place. Is that normal?
Yes, the rear end of the follower rib is squared on the military German WWII 98 to prevent you
from inadvertently (as in the noise and confusion of combat) closing the bolt on an empty chamber.

I also agree with the others that you should be able to pick up a RC 98 for less than 900.

JT
__________________
I hunt not to kill, but rather to have not played golf...
JT-AR-MG42 is offline  
Old January 27, 2021, 10:45 AM   #9
jdc606
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2015
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericuda View Post
I am more curious, inherited a mauser myself. Marked m48 on top of receiver and hpj with foreign letters followed by 44 on left side. Mine has matching k130## on bolt, receiver and base plate. Has same number stamped on stock. Has leather sling and a bag of miscellaneous parts with oil can, etc.

I loaded some reduced h4895 loads and it is kinda fun.
You have a Yugo M48. A quick internet search will give you more info than I could ever provide. I have one and agree they are kinda fun.
jdc606 is offline  
Old January 27, 2021, 03:00 PM   #10
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 24,310
Quote:
The bolt hangs up on the follower when you try to close it without any ammo in place. Is that normal?
Sorry, I forgot to answer this earlier. As JT-AR-MG42 said, this is completely normal. Military Mausers (and some other rifles) are made to "lock open" when empty. Its done to tell you that the gun is empty in a way that's hard to miss.

Tis the equivalent of your semi auto pistol slide or rifle bolt locking back when empty. It's also one of the things done away with when sporterizing the rifle. I've done several myself. A few minutes with a file (or a bit less time with a bench grinder) cutting the square shoulder at the rear of the magazine follower into a slope allows the bolt to be easily closed over an empty magazine.

I've had a lot of 98 pattern rifles over the years, both military trim and sporterized. Currently still have a Kar 98k, a rather "war weary" veteran with the stamped winter triggerguard, a VZ-24 in pretty good shape and a Yugo 48 that looks like new.

One thing to remember when shooting them, assume all 8mm surplus military ammo is corrosive primed, and clean the gun accordingly.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old January 27, 2021, 03:19 PM   #11
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 16,644
The M48 is a Czech-made rifle produced after the end of WW2. They are basically a Mauser design, but they are slightly different from the 98s, the K98s, and the 24s (and 24/47s) in that the bolt is slightly shorter, so there is no parts interchange between the M48 series and the other, military Mausers. Ten or so years ago M48s with all matching numbers were selling for under $200. As someone posted above, $900 for one of Mitchell's reworked wonders is stupid.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old January 27, 2021, 09:45 PM   #12
EIGHTYDUECE
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 19, 2001
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
The M48 is a Czech-made rifle produced after the end of WW2. They are basically a Mauser design, but they are slightly different from the 98s, the K98s, and the 24s (and 24/47s) in that the bolt is slightly shorter, so there is no parts interchange between the M48 series and the other, military Mausers. Ten or so years ago M48s with all matching numbers were selling for under $200. As someone posted above, $900 for one of Mitchell's reworked wonders is stupid.
The M48 is Yugoslavian. The Yugoslavian 24/47 is a Czech Mauser rebuilt in Yugoslavia. The M48 is a very nice Mauser variant. Although it is called an M48, they were actually manufactured in the early 1950s for export. I agree with going with an original M48 over the Mitchell's. The M48 also has a teak stock.
__________________
"KNEES IN THE BREEZE"

"Shop Smart, Shop S-Mart"- ASH
EIGHTYDUECE is offline  
Old January 28, 2021, 02:34 PM   #13
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,255
I'd rather buy an Argentine 1909. Mitchells are overpriced.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old January 28, 2021, 03:45 PM   #14
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 12,802
Mitchells are typically refinished, force-matched parts guns that are made to look good and original, but are far from it.
Don't go there, unless you just want something that's nice to look at.
And that one... That one does not seem nice to look at.
Quote:
The M48 is a Czech-made rifle produced after the end of WW2. They are basically a Mauser design, but they are slightly different from the 98s, the K98s, and the 24s (and 24/47s) in that the bolt is slightly shorter, so there is no parts interchange between the M48 series and the other, military Mausers.
Quote:
The M48 is Yugoslavian. The Yugoslavian 24/47 is a Czech Mauser rebuilt in Yugoslavia. The M48 is a very nice Mauser variant. Although it is called an M48, they were actually manufactured in the early 1950s for export. I agree with going with an original M48 over the Mitchell's. The M48 also has a teak stock.
Further correction is required here.
24/47s were both rebuilds of FN 1924 (FN24) pattern rifles, as well as newly-manufactured.
M48s were both refurbs and newly manufactured.

FN24 pattern rifles were built by over a dozen different countries, with a huge number of them ending up in Yugoslavia at the end of their life, or after the war. The Serbs did not shy away from used rifles that cost pennies on the dollar, versus building from scratch. While a lot of the FN24s were Czech built, the majority were not. In fact, the majority of Yugo 1924s were Belgian-made, by FN.

FN24 pattern production was always for military contracts. But 24/47 and M48 production did see some runs done specifically for export - with some fully intended to be sold on the civilian market.

The entire FN1924 family is short, not just the M48s. 1924, 24/47, M48, and a few specialty rifles in between. They use slightly shorter actions and shorter bolts (the "intermediate length" Mauser).
Unless the action had one or more rare modifications done, 1924, 24/47, and M48 bolts are interchangeable - often even for rifles produced in different countries, 30 years apart.


The rifle pictured isn't any of the above, though.
It's a German 98. With over-stamped Waffenamts.
(**cough** probably by Mitchell's **cough**)
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old January 28, 2021, 04:25 PM   #15
Ricklin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: SW Washington state
Posts: 1,753
Frankenmauser does that shortened bolt also apply to the early 1950's commercial Mauser actions?
I have a JC Higgins model 50 in .270 Win that I dearly love. Sears had Hi-Standard build the rifles, the action was FN Mauser. I believe it was made around 1952
__________________
ricklin
Freedom is not free
Ricklin is offline  
Old January 28, 2021, 10:01 PM   #16
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 12,802
There was commercial production or conversion of intermediate length actions after WWII. Heym*, Montgomery Wards* (I don't know who built these), and many brands supplied by Zastava* were all intermediate length.

*All of these, specifically, were at least partially based on M48("BO") export actions; but others easily could have been 24/47(BO), reconstituted surplus, or new manufacturer from elsewhere - like the FN Model 30.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old January 30, 2021, 11:39 AM   #17
Mk VII
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2000
Location: England
Posts: 440
Jerry Kuhnhausen's Mauser book has a table, with dimensions, of the various actions over the years, long/short/intermediate, small ring/large ring etc.
Mk VII is offline  
Old January 30, 2021, 11:54 AM   #18
ballisticxlr
Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2020
Posts: 83
Mitchell's Mixers is what they should be called. Pass.
ballisticxlr is offline  
Old February 25, 2021, 09:57 AM   #19
Vinootz
Junior Member
 
Join Date: April 26, 2020
Posts: 4
Not a problem

I never had a problem with a Mitchell’s Mauser. I bought one to decorate a room with. It shoots great too. Lots of negativity out there. When you look at the cheap grade of materials folks get in a rifle for $300 today, I figure I did ok. Besides, Mitchell’s is allowed to make money for producing a cleaned up firearm that shoots. I guess many gun owners are frugal considering all the gripes you hear.
Vinootz is offline  
Old February 25, 2021, 12:37 PM   #20
5whiskey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2005
Location: US
Posts: 3,532
Quote:
I never had a problem with a Mitchell’s Mauser. I bought one to decorate a room with. It shoots great too. Lots of negativity out there. When you look at the cheap grade of materials folks get in a rifle for $300 today, I figure I did ok. Besides, Mitchell’s is allowed to make money for producing a cleaned up firearm that shoots. I guess many gun owners are frugal considering all the gripes you hear.
If you aren’t a collector, and have no interest in historical accuracy, then a mitchels Mauser is fine. They’re overpriced, but there’s nothing wrong with it if you were ok with the price and liked the look of the firearm. They *DO* clean up a mauser fairly well from what I understand.

The issue is, most people who are interested in Mauser rifles are collectors. Prices increase with known original rifles that are still in good shape, increase more when all parts are numbers matching, then increases more when there is no importer stamp (or the stamp is discreet or concealed), and then increases even more when all or most of the original rifle kit is included (I.e. the Mauser cleaning rod is present, comes with an original sling or bayonet, etc).

Mitchels gets a bad rap among collectors because they try to “force match” parts. Force matching is when an identical serial number is stamped on all parts by Mitchell’s in their refurbishing process. This gives the appearance, on the surface, that the rifle is an original all numbers matching rifle. It is also fraudulent if it is advertised as numbers matching.

What makes it worse is Mitchell’s charges a similar price for one of its cobbled parts guns as what you would pay for an original numbers matching Mausers in passable shape. A Mitchell’s Mauser will not go up in value. An original, numbers matching, K98 kept in original condition and cared for will increase in value over time. There never will be another made, and the last ones were made nearly 80 years ago.
__________________
Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946
5whiskey is offline  
Old February 26, 2021, 11:30 PM   #21
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,734
Not any knowledge about Mitchell but background on the bolt hold back.

The concept was to single load a fired shot, aka, if you shot once and it was not in the heat of a multi shot fire fight, you could top off the magazine one at a time.

It also acts as a notify that you have fired all your rounds.

All of which is Ironic as machine guns came to predominate and they went though bucket loads of rounds.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old May 18, 2021, 11:58 PM   #22
Linker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2021
Posts: 13
I have a Zastava Yugoslavia m48 my son got me several years ago. It's a Mitchell. Paper work claims was stored in a warehouse back in the 50s. Has a teak stock and shoots really well. List price was $300.00. Supposedly never used and it looked untouched when it arrived. I realize many talk bad about Mitchell's but this one is not claimed to be other than what it seems.
Linker is offline  
Old May 19, 2021, 02:09 AM   #23
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 12,802
Never trust Mitchell's any farther than you can throw them.

The "looked untouched" aspect is the specialty of these companies.

When the "new, unissued" Yugo Mausers were coming into the US in great quantities, the price was $189 (good deal) to $289 (not great, but common and pretty much the top of the market).
Certain companies could not make a profit on these if they bought the best of the best and sold them for $300. So, they bought the parts, parts guns, and worst of the worst, to reconstitute and force-match. That reconstitution is where 'looked untouched' comes from.

It looks new, because it is. But not because it hasn't been used. It is because it was rebuilt, refinished, and force-matched to appear to be an original, unissued, specimen.


I know. A Yugo "unissued" 24/47 is where I got my start in the Yugo world.
I have had more since then, and still have all but the first.

In there, I have a Mitchell's Yugo M48 that came to me via family, but I have been around since its purchase. It is obvious to an experienced person in this realm that this M48 is a parts gun. Looks great. Shoots. But it didn't leave the factory this way. It was assembled from parts and force-matched. It even has serial numbers where the Yugos never stamped serial numbers.

Mitchell's are tarted-up eye candy.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old June 6, 2021, 09:59 AM   #24
'88Scrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 11, 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 510
Lotta Mitchell's hate here, but everyone's mileage varies I suppose.

I have a Mitchell's M48 I bought secondhand from a friend of a friend for about $400; came with bayonet, sling, a couple 5 round chargers, 80 rounds of 8mm PPU FMJ, and some ammo pouches. Also had some paperwork but I think I tossed that. It looks pretty but I bought it as a shooter not a collectable. Didn't care it was more than likely a frankengun. It has STRONG rifling and a smooth lockup.

500ish rounds and 5 years later I have no complaints, goes bang every time and seems reasonably accurate, I can ring steel at 100 yards pretty consistently. Even took a deer with it a few years ago.

Given that I see M48 bayonets go for $100 alone these days I feel ok with my purchase.
__________________
BOOM

Last edited by '88Scrat; June 6, 2021 at 10:06 AM.
'88Scrat is offline  
Old August 17, 2021, 01:57 PM   #25
Road_Clam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,630
I picked up a refurbished Yugo capture "Mod98" back in 2014. Paid $350 . Seems to be matching #s except for the firing pin. I think I paid a bit too much but it's a ok shooter. The stock was bubba inletted to accept a clamp on style optic base. Other than that it's actually in great shape. I enjoy shooting it , now if I could only accurately figure out it's battle zero poi distance . Been kind of a mystery thus far .Lol
__________________
"To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

Last edited by Road_Clam; August 17, 2021 at 02:28 PM.
Road_Clam is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07176 seconds with 11 queries