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Old August 28, 2021, 07:06 AM   #1
ligonierbill
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New project 250-3000

We had a good discussion on quarter bores, and I was disappointed in the range performance of my old (guesstimate 1926-1935) Savage 20. Not giving up on the elegant old girl. I am still looking for some 87 grain bullets for the 1:14 barrel. But I want to see what this round will do with a "proper" 1:10 twist.

There are not many examples out there, and folks hold onto them. A few Remington 700 Classics show up, albeit at high prices. I am a sucker for a project, so why not. Remington short actions are available, but barrels are a very long lead item right now. I found a 700 barreled action. It is always a risk. One wonders why. I'll never know, but in this case it was not due to a bad barrel, as I found yesterday.

Scrounging around on line, I found a mag well, spring and follower, and action screws. Ordered an aftermarket hinged floorplate and, one long lead stock from Richards Microfit (myrtle, 8-10 weeks). But in the meantime, I found an inexpensive plastic Remington stock from a shop that upgraded a rifle. It was the ADL with a blind magazine, so I did have to buy a trigger guard. But a small investment to get shooting. Everything fit perfectly, and while I'll be glad to dress up my gun with some nice wood, that ugly plastic feels pretty good. Mounted an old Redfield 3-9X I had laying around, and off to the range.

A good load of Re-15 sends my 100 grain CoreLokts downrange at 2,868. And this one is a shooter. I only had 10 rounds to get on target and gather data, so I did not measure a group. But it looks good. Compared to my Ruger American 243 (both 22") this 250 is a little slower (30-50 fps). Of course, the 243 is speced at considerably higher pressure. And don't get me wrong; I like my Ruger. But this 700 is just smoother and already looks better. Can't wait to get my pretty new stock.
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Old August 29, 2021, 11:38 AM   #2
Don Fischer
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Way I read it years ago is that when Savage had the cartridge made up it was made for that faster twist because Savage intended it for 3000 FPS. The would be the 87gr bullet. To bad but that's the way it is. You could take that old rifle and have it re-barreled to work with heavier bullet's, I would. I believe it was Newton that developed that 250-3000 and tried to talk Savage out if it. That's where the part of the name, 3000, came from. Savage wanted to impress everyone with a cartridge that would fire a bullet 3000 FPS. Didn't work out all that well!
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Old August 29, 2021, 11:12 PM   #3
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Remington made a similar questionable decision with the .244,which they later rebranded the 6mm.
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Old August 30, 2021, 02:59 AM   #4
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The 25 x 45 sharps uses a 87 gr hot cor to achieve 3000 fps and is extremely accurate out of my AR build. Not my first choice for medium sized game, but it has been used for that and my guess is you should have no problem at least equalling that performance.
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Old August 30, 2021, 09:38 AM   #5
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Uuummmmm, Don,
The 1:14 is a slower twist compared to todays standard of 1:10 for the 25 caliber.

Sounds good on your build, LigonierBill!

I built mine on a Stevens 200. (Savage model 10)
24" E.R. Shaw sporter barrel. 1:10 twist.
I put a Redfield Revenge 4-12X40 with the Accu-Varmint ranging reticle on it.
I built it mostly for a light weight coyote rifle.

Thing will shoot whatever i feed it, if i do my job..
75gr Sierra HP Varmint bullets in the 3,150 fps range. That's close to the starting load, not max. It was accurate enough there, that i didn't even finish my ladder test. Just pulled the bullets & put the powder to that charge.

I'm probably one of the few to load up 115gr Berger VLDs in a 250 Savage.
Or the 120gr Sierra HPBT GameKings.

My "project" rifle right now is a Benchrest build.
Shilen 26" heavy varmint barrel in 250 Savage from Northland Shooters Supply.
Savage Axis action.
Front of action machined for a regular recoil lug.
PTG ground recoil lug.
NSS ground barrel nut.
Sharp Shooter Supply single feed ramp.
Rifle Basix Sav-1 trigger.
EGW 20 MOA one piece base.
EGW high 30mm Keystone rings.
Sightron SIII 10-50X60 LRTD scope.
Savage trigger guard and action screws from Midway.

Barreled action is out right now getting a custom Benchrest laminate stock built.
Forestock & buttstock flat & parallel with bore. 3" wide forestock.

I'm getting anxious now!
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Old August 30, 2021, 10:29 PM   #6
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Ligonierbill and std7mag I'm still following this and find it highly interesting.

I'm still believing that I too want to build a 250 Savage with a fast twist to put on the Savage Model 11 action I have and the Richards Field Trekker stock I have coming.

Last Saturday I was talking to one of the local winter league shooters who this year is going to be shooting a 308 again compared to most that will be shooting some form of 6mm. So we talked about the 308 and also again about the 250Savage. My question to him was, are we the oddballs for bucking the trend?
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Old September 8, 2021, 07:39 AM   #7
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KMW,

From what i've heard, the 250 Savage has set some records "back in the day".

Seems anymore unless your shooting service rifle, or Palma the 308 is now the oddball at a match.
And the originally looked down upon 284 Win is seeing an uprise in long distance matches.

With a 1:8 twist barrel the new bullets in 25 caliber are getting a few looks from shooters that originally would not even think of doing a 25 caliber.

I don't know how the new Bergers are performing at short range, but at long range they are shining.
Don't bother with the 131gr Blackjack Ace at short range.

As i may have mentioned before. When it was found out i was planning on doing a Benchrest build, i was told "buy a known winning rifle, from a known builder in 6BR! Because that's what everyone else is using.".

Yyyyeeaaahhhhhh......
I'm NOT that guy! Lol

And now i'm thinking of getting 2 more barrels for my BR rifle.
First will probably be a 30" heavy varmint in 7mm-08 throated for the 160gr Tipped MatchKings for long distance. Possibly another Shillen, or a Douglas.

The second a straight contour 22" in 7mm-08 from E.R. Shaw for short range.
Hope is to win a match or two, even if it is just local, to give the middle finger at people that claim Shaw barrels are junk.
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Old September 10, 2021, 12:47 AM   #8
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std7mag,

Indeed! marching backwards beating a drum with wooden spoons. I like it!!!

How boring to be like everyone else huh?
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Old September 10, 2021, 01:28 AM   #9
stagpanther
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Quote:
to give the middle finger at people that claim Shaw barrels are junk.
They are not junk--but they are not top shelf either IMO, similar to stock Savage IMO which can shoot very well--most of the time.
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Old September 11, 2021, 09:50 AM   #10
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I have/had a couple of Shaw barrels, bought from Midway USA. The first was a .250 Savage, but it fouled horribly. I boutlght a Tubbs fire lapping kit and it cleaned up that issue, and it shot pretty well after that. I built it on a Stevens 200 stagger feed action with a B&C stock, but I fell short on money after an injury had me sidelined for a year and sold it to pay some bills.





The second barrel just sits in my closet, it's a .358 Win small shank Savage barrel. I really want to use it, but I don't have a donor rifle at the moment. I also don't think I'd ever carry it as the mag contour makes the barrel heavier than I want to use. I may have it cut down to 18" that would lighten it considerably.

From my limited experience I'd have to agree with stagpanther, they're okay. I do know Shaw was chosen for the barrels for the now defunct Forbes Rifle Company, and writer John Barsness said that Shaw did some major capital investment in new machines. So just maybe these newer Shaw barrels are better than my examples.

I've been using X-Caliber alot lately, their delivery has been fast, the barrels easy to clean, and need minimal break in.
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Old September 11, 2021, 11:06 AM   #11
std7mag
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Yes, Shaw did put a big capital investment in new machine tools.
I think about 7 years ago, maybe more.

Forbes Rifle Co, bought out by Colt, bought back by Melvin Forbes is now defunct.
Melvin Forbes is still producing essentially the same rifle under the NULA (New Ultra Light Arms) banner.
New, NULA rifles are indeed light.
Long action Model 24 is 5.5lb with Talley rings, while still maintaining the 24" barrel in 1.5 contour.
Price starts around $3,600.
I believe he may be using Hart barrels now, but don't quote me on that.

My Forbes 24B in 280 Rem is one rifle i kick myself for selling!
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Old September 11, 2021, 01:04 PM   #12
wachtelhund1
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About 15 years ago I purchased a Remington 788 in 308 Win. The owner was carrying it into a pawn shop wanting to sell it. It was in rough condition, Birch stock was scared up and painted black, I got it for $150.00.

Anyways I re-barreled it with a used medium - heavy weight Krigger SS barrel and had it chambered for 250 Savage AI ($100.00). I had it cut to 24". I changed the trigger to a Timmy 1.5 oz with safety. Added a EGW 20 MOA one piece base. I striped the factory stock and added a check piece then spray it with an olive green textured paint. I had to open up the barrel channel and add to the out side of the forearm. It was extremely accurate, but had only a 1:10 or 1;12 twist. I used it in our F class matches when shooting 300 and 600 yard matches. The rifling would not stabilize bullets for 1,000 shooting. For matches I used 120 grain bullet, for hunting 90 to 100 bullet. All total I had less than $450.00 into that rifle
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Old September 11, 2021, 04:02 PM   #13
taylorce1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by std7mag
Forbes Rifle Co, bought out by Colt, bought back by Melvin Forbes is now defunct.
Melvin Forbes is still producing essentially the same rifle under the NULA (New Ultra Light Arms) banner.
New, NULA rifles are indeed light.
Long action Model 24 is 5.5lb with Talley rings, while still maintaining the 24" barrel in 1.5 contour.
Price starts around $3,600.
You have it a little backwards. Melvin Forbes founded ULA (Ultra Light Arms) and Colt bought him out, Colt went bankrupt and he bought back his rights to build his rifles. Melvin then started NULA (New Ultra Light Arms) and then again attempted to commercially produce his rifles with Forbes company which had issues meeting Melvin's standards as well.

Melvin as far as I know has always used Douglass Premium barrels with his NULA rifles.
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Old September 22, 2021, 01:10 PM   #14
ligonierbill
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Got my Richards Microfit stock today. Looks good and quick check indicates good fit. But I think it's a winter project. I will continue to work loads with the plastic setup for now.
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Old September 25, 2021, 08:11 PM   #15
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I’ve got one of the old M 20s with the 1-14 twist. I think my great grandfather bought it new or nearly new and I have his old reloading notes going back to 1925. He used it to hunt hawks mostly and ended up settling on a 60 grain flat nose on top of 37 gr of IMR 3031 (originally du Pont 17 1/2). It seems pretty hot and I intend to try a work up to that with Hornady 60 gr bullets once it cools off a bit more here.
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Old September 26, 2021, 06:52 AM   #16
std7mag
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Since i'm having major issues trying to buy bullets from Nosler, i'm gonna try changing things up this year.
Ordered some 90gr Absolute Hammers for the 250 Savage.

According to Hammer, i should use a faster than normal burning powder for bullet weight & more of it.
Should be interesting.
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Old September 26, 2021, 11:01 AM   #17
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ligonierbill, my Richards Microfit Field Trekker arrived this week also. Very excited about that.

This one is going to need some finish fitting work for both the receiver and the bottom metal and trigger guard. Then is going to need some ergonomic fitting as well.
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Old September 29, 2021, 07:30 AM   #18
stagpanther
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This thread indirectly "re-stimulated" my quarter bore interest--just plunked down some bills for a 25 PRC barrel.
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Old October 3, 2021, 03:05 PM   #19
std7mag
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Sweet!!!

I just tore apart a new to me Alpine Firearms Co. commercial Mauser.
Friend gave it to me, as he had no idea what it was (he thought it was a 223 Rem. It's actually a 30-06.), and he'll probably never shoot it.

Now to figure out what to make it.
Thinking 25-06, or 25-284.
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Old October 3, 2021, 05:27 PM   #20
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I already have a 25-06 which is a great shooter, a 25-284 (or even 25 creedmoor) is probably a better idea from the point of view of brass/dies availability than the PRC I'm trying. I'm going with 1:7 twist for anything 120 gr or more.

Seems the market is a-buzz over the high BC blackjack bullets; my barrel is going to be reamed with the BJ chamber design. Blackjack has other .25 chamber designs you may want to take a look at.

BTW, I noticed the barrel nut your using on your savage build is a NSS--which are excellent and I've used myself--but I can HIGHLY recommend Patriot Valley Arms barrel nuts, precision and allows the use of a simple monkey wrench for quick changes. I had my heart set on them making my 25 PRC barrel but they were out of 25 blanks.
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Last edited by stagpanther; October 3, 2021 at 10:28 PM.
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Old October 8, 2021, 05:56 AM   #21
ligonierbill
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I got started on my Richards Microfit. Not difficult at all to fit with a little patience (not my best virtue). The myrtle is easy to work. I tried a little Laurel Mountain Forge walnut stain in the barrel channel, and I think that is what I will use on this stock. Myrtle is a very light, almost white wood, and it took the stain well. I bedded the action overnight, this time including the barrel channel, with the barrel taped for a little clearance. Now for about 6 months' worth of sanding.
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Old October 9, 2021, 10:46 PM   #22
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Ligonierbill...what was the time between you placing the order with Richard's Stocks and receiving it? I ordered another piece of wood from them around Sept. 1, and am just curious. They said 8-10 weeks.

Thx
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Old October 10, 2021, 03:51 AM   #23
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I ordered 12-Aug and received it 22-Sep. Fairly quick turnaround.
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Old October 10, 2021, 07:15 PM   #24
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Thanks again!
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Old October 11, 2021, 03:56 AM   #25
stagpanther
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I took a look at those Microfits since you guys mentioned them--I like the variety but the costs pile up pretty fast. Do the stocks come with cross bolts for reinforcements--or is that an add-on? I've used a lot of Boyds and they are OK, but generally need lots of inlet finishing--how do you compare the inlet work needed with the microfit to Boyds'?
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