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Old August 25, 2021, 04:39 PM   #51
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Durkin Tactical 7.62 x 39 Bolt Carrier Group, I'd say 300 rounds.

Thanks for the RedX tip, I'm going to get one.

Joe-ker, do you get light primer strikes with steel cased ammo? I have installed an enhanced firing pin but I still get light primer strikes every few rounds of Tula (I'd say 1 out of 20)
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Old August 25, 2021, 05:55 PM   #52
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A little thread drift nearly always happens, but we need to get back on topic which is the Biden administration banning Russian made arms and ammo.

under Executive Order authority the Pres can prohibit the import of about anything, and only has to answer for it in the court of public opinion.

Here's a question, can a law passed by Congress, over rule an Executive Order?
I would think that the Pres would most likely vacate the Order if there was enough support for Congress to pass a law overriding it. But is he required to?

The Pres could veto the law and not sign it, but what if the law had a veto proof majority? And the Pres wouldn't vacate the Order, so would that then go to the Supreme Court??

How do think that would shake out??
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Old August 25, 2021, 06:44 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Pistoler0 View Post
Durkin Tactical 7.62 x 39 Bolt Carrier Group, I'd say 300 rounds.

Thanks for the RedX tip, I'm going to get one.

Joe-ker, do you get light primer strikes with steel cased ammo? I have installed an enhanced firing pin but I still get light primer strikes every few rounds of Tula (I'd say 1 out of 20)
I had one in the first mag or 2 I shot, these were Russian surplus I’d gotten at cabelas 20 years ago-not sure of brand. Everything else has been Wolf and worked flawlessly.

I think I read somewhere guys say you should get 3-4K rds on an extractor. I couldn’t get just the enhanced pin from Redx so I got their entire BCG, I figure since they are the go to for the pin they probably have a good bolt too.
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Old August 25, 2021, 07:19 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
A little thread drift nearly always happens, but we need to get back on topic which is the Biden administration banning Russian made arms and ammo.

under Executive Order authority the Pres can prohibit the import of about anything, and only has to answer for it in the court of public opinion.

Here's a question, can a law passed by Congress, over rule an Executive Order?
I would think that the Pres would most likely vacate the Order if there was enough support for Congress to pass a law overriding it. But is he required to?

The Pres could veto the law and not sign it, but what if the law had a veto proof majority? And the Pres wouldn't vacate the Order, so would that then go to the Supreme Court??

How do think that would shake out??
44 Amp,

according to:
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/...ents-use-them/
<<While an executive order can have the same effect as a federal law under certain circumstances, Congress can pass a new law to override an executive order, subject to a presidential veto.>>

So YES, Congress can pass a law to nullify an executive order, but as you said, it would be subject to presidential veto.

I don't think that the current Congress would pass any law reversing an exec order from Biden, though. Although it is interesting to know.
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Old August 25, 2021, 07:27 PM   #55
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I do like the calls for increased domestic production. I know the major ammo manufacturers got burned post sandy hook to ramp up production only to see demand dissipate once trump took office. The hesitancy to increase output is understood, but by golly I’m pretty sure this one is different. Covid, civil unrest, and a anti-gun president all in one year has increased demand far beyond what we really could’ve predicted. A ton of guys who used to shoot regularly now rarely shoot. I shoot BP more now than anything else. I’m still doing ok, but I have to begin sourcing SP primers and battle rifle class powder soon. Other than these two component types, I’m doing ok so far. I have pared back shooting, though I often do in the dead of summer as it’s so hot. I’ll pick up some again in the fall, but still keeping with BP mostly. It’s fun and I can still replenish all the components burned up in a couple hour range session for under $20. If I had a 2 hour range session shooting high capacity semi-autos, it would likely cost me near $200 to replenish components right now at today’s prices. No thanks.

Hornaday, freedom group, et al... an increase in production capacity right now is probably a good investment. Even when things start to ease there will be a significant pent up demand from your avid enthusiasts that have scaled their shooting back a lot. Probably pent up demand that will take years to resolve.
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Old August 25, 2021, 08:36 PM   #56
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November-December 2019 ammo manufacturers were almost giving ammo away. Remember the Federal rebates? Brass 223/556 55gr could be had for something like $.25/rd or less with the rebates. 9mm was $7-8 a box of 50 for brass. 7.62x39 was around $200/1000. Then came COVID and everything under the sun was bought up. Most of this ammo hasn't gone anywhere. All panic buying and when there is no longer the threat of civil unrest, gun bans, etc. things will normalize. Nobody's going to pay $.60/rd+ for plain Jane 55gr 5.56 forever.

A lot of the ammo market is speculative and the insane prices only really affect new shooters, competition guys and those caught with their pants down. Anyone that's been around the block (think 2012) should have known to BICSID. Buy It Cheap Stack It Deep.
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Old August 26, 2021, 01:27 PM   #57
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"Democrats' latest backdoor plan to limit gun ownership"

Here's an article from "The Hill" about the Russian ammo ban and a recap of other things the anti-gun crowd has done in the past. IMhO it's a nice recap and illustrates the shady/disingenuous/crafty/deceitful/underhanded/dishonest/flat out fraudulent way the anti-gun folk opperate. (Many thanks to thesaurus.com)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...edgdhp&pc=U531

I find the comments section entertaining.

Last edited by DaleA; August 26, 2021 at 01:32 PM.
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Old August 26, 2021, 05:25 PM   #58
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I picked up two brown 100 ct boxes of Monarch ammo in 7.62x39 ($36 per bx) at Academy Sports yesterday. Guy behind counter said they get cases of in each week. I just looked and it is made in Russia. Figured it may be double that price in a few months.
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Old August 26, 2021, 11:06 PM   #59
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We really don't use that much Russian ammo. A lot of it comes from other countries.
Maybe he did us a favor if the domestic ammo manufacturers will pick up the ball & get producing some of the calibers that we had become dependent on the Russian stuff.
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Old August 26, 2021, 11:37 PM   #60
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I don't think the consumers are going to benefit from this, but the domestic ammo manufacturers probably will--at least for a while until imports start coming in from other countries to replace the Russian stuff.
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Old August 27, 2021, 09:18 AM   #61
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^^agree^^ I see more demand being placed on the other manufactures resulting less inventory and higher prices.
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Old August 27, 2021, 10:28 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa
I don't think the consumers are going to benefit from this, but the domestic ammo manufacturers probably will--at least for a while until imports start coming in from other countries to replace the Russian stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrinne0430
^^agree^^ I see more demand being placed on the other manufactures resulting less inventory and higher prices.
Possible.

Consider the potential flip side. The reason American manufacturers haven't responded to this ammo shortage by adding capacity (meaning more square feet and more machines, as opposed to just increasing hours and/or adding shifts) is that during the previous big shortage they did expand capacity -- and then the ammo panic evaporated and they were stuck with excess capacity they didn't need but still had to pay for. More than one company has stated on the record that they don't want to do that again, so they will build as much ammo as they can using their existing facilities, but that this time around they won't expand physical capacity.

Perhaps the elimination of a large(-ish) component of import competition might provide sufficient incentive to convince some of the American ammo makers that it is safe to invest in expanding physical capacity.
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Old August 27, 2021, 10:46 AM   #63
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I would imagine that the ammo Manufacturers are and will still be Running scared to expand. We have 3 1/2 years of Biden mess to contend with. Nothing is safe for their investment. Actually nothing safe period. Biden and staff have made it well known they are out to destroy he 2nd Amendment. Ammo manufactures are taking his word at this. Why wouldn't they?

BIDEN BAN-
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Old August 27, 2021, 05:59 PM   #64
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Political international sanctions aside this recent ban reeks of the left and anti-gunner tactics to incrementally chip away at 2A rights: slowly outlaw all forms of ammo in in an attempt to make all existing guns non-operable. Mission accomplished.
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Old August 28, 2021, 09:02 AM   #65
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You don't need to ban guns if you can ban ammunition and the components needed to manufacture it.
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Old August 28, 2021, 10:29 AM   #66
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Here is a link https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...n-ammo.893919/of SGAmmo’s response to a THR member on the potential affects of the band.

Quote:
From what I understand, the USA commercial market consumes around 800,000,000 rounds of ammunition from Russia every year...The calibers we believe will be most effected are soviet metric calibers like 7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 7.62x54R because there is almost zero available manufacturing capacity for these calibers outside of Russia...
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Old August 28, 2021, 11:15 AM   #67
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I’ve been selling to ammo makers for almost 30 years. They are running 24/7 and they are expanding. War is always in the back of the decision makers minds. Remember back when you couldn’t get 9mm and 5.56 due to it going to our brave men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Russia ammo was good in that it kept prices down. If the market is allowed to function normally, U. S. Makers will make up the difference and gladly.
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Old August 29, 2021, 01:36 AM   #68
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this recent ban reeks of the left and anti-gunner tactics to incrementally chip away at 2A rights: slowly outlaw all forms of ammo in in an attempt to make all existing guns non-operable.
While I agree that seems to be their plan, I would caution you about lumping everything firearms related under our "2nd Amendment rights".

Regulating or even banning imports doesn't affect our rights, only our wants, and one should remember that authority has belonged to the government as long as we have had a government.

Remember the boy who cried "Wolf!"
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Old August 30, 2021, 01:19 PM   #69
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....I would caution you about lumping everything firearms related under our "2nd Amendment rights". ...
Retired guy here with little to do so I'm just spouting off. Thought some time back it odd that we have an "unalienable right" to own guns. I believe the intent of the 2nd Amendment is we have an "unalienable right" to protect /defend that which we value. If laser blasters were the most efficient and available tool when the 2nd was written we would be fighting for our laser blaster rights. A rancher's 2A rights down on the Arizona border may be better served with a string of Claymores and a couple M60's.
So many questions with no answers. Who determines he's a paranoid nut job and shouldn't have the tools he deems necessary?
I apologize for my soap box. I'm sure this topic has already been discussed ad nauseam.
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Old August 30, 2021, 02:31 PM   #70
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Retired guy here with little to do so I'm just spouting off. Thought some time back it odd that we have an "unalienable right" to own guns. I believe the intent of the 2nd Amendment is we have an "unalienable right" to protect /defend that which we value.
Devil's advocate here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2A
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
I do not see the word "unalienable" anywhere in the Second Amendment.

The word "unalienable" does not come from the Second Amendment, it does not come from the Bill of Rights, and it does not come from the Constitution. It comes from the Declaration of Independence:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Declaration
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
The Declaration of Independence was a much more general, philosophical statement than the Constitution. It's difficult enough to explain the 2A to, and defend it against, people who don't want to believe what it says. Please don't make it more difficult by adding in language that isn't there.

Secondly, the 2A does not say that we have a right (unalienable or not) to protect anything. On its face, it says we have a right to keep and bear arms. That's ALL it says. To get at the reasons why the Founders put the RKBA into the Bill of Rights you have to do some research, and find the writings of the influential members of the constitutional convention on the topic. The 2A itself does not say anything about what we are allowed to do with the right to keep and bear arms.
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Old August 30, 2021, 04:24 PM   #71
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"Last week ******* Biden signed an Executive Order effectively banning the import of Russian ammunition. Listen as we talk to Charlie Brown, President of MKS Supply and the importer to Barnaul Steel-Case Ammunition, as he discusses the reason behind the ban and its effect on everyday U.S. shooters. He and Host Brent T. Wheat also talk about the myths and misconceptions of steel ammo, which currently comprises 35% of all U.S. ammo sold."

I do not care how you call it. 35% is a devastating hit. Especially when 2A folks are already BLEEDING! And forget the Biden LIE that this was about anything else, BUT going after 2A.
Listen to the PODCAST

https://gunsmagazine.com/podcast/ban...n-ammo-gmp-95/

Listen to podcast with Barnaul ammo.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; August 30, 2021 at 04:30 PM.
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Old August 30, 2021, 05:25 PM   #72
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You guys don't get it, do you? Much of what Biden does has a Hunter/China connection.

Biden closed Afghanistan so China can go in and make a ton of money off their resources.

Do you want to bet the Chinese will start getting awarded infrastructure projects?

Biden restricts Russian ammo; just wait, Chinese ammo will probably replace those demands, just give it time.

The Big Guy gets his 10% cut off the top.
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Old August 30, 2021, 08:28 PM   #73
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Thank you, AB, for taking the time to respond. This topic is obviously above my pay grade.
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Old August 30, 2021, 10:06 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
Devil's advocate here.


I do not see the word "unalienable" anywhere in the Second Amendment.

The word "unalienable" does not come from the Second Amendment, it does not come from the Bill of Rights, and it does not come from the Constitution. It comes from the Declaration of Independence:


The Declaration of Independence was a much more general, philosophical statement than the Constitution. It's difficult enough to explain the 2A to, and defend it against, people who don't want to believe what it says. Please don't make it more difficult by adding in language that isn't there.

Secondly, the 2A does not say that we have a right (unalienable or not) to protect anything. On its face, it says we have a right to keep and bear arms. That's ALL it says. To get at the reasons why the Founders put the RKBA into the Bill of Rights you have to do some research, and find the writings of the influential members of the constitutional convention on the topic. The 2A itself does not say anything about what we are allowed to do with the right to keep and bear arms.


Yeah, the meaning of keep and bear arms means that you get to have a flintlock musket above your fireplace. If you don't have a fireplace, you're out of luck.
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Old August 30, 2021, 11:09 PM   #75
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Well, here the main problem a simple difference of opinion about what a "right" entails. There are people who believe that if you can have a gun, of some kind, then your right to keep and bear arms is not being violated.

I think those of us here would disagree with that line of reasoning, and I believe our Founders did as well. Just read what they wrote, directly, and not through any "modern" filter and its clear.

TO be precise, the Bill of Rights is about rights, but it grants no rights. Not one. It is a list of restrictions on what the government can do regarding SOME of the rights of citizens, and it also specifically states that citizens have rights not specifically mentioned in the Bill of Rights.

Our rights are our rights not because any paper says they are, nor do they exist because some government allows them. They exist because we do.

If you don't care for the term "God given" or "Endowed by the Creator" then use the other term that was common in the days of our Founders, call them "Natural rights".

I look at the ammo ban a little differently than many here seem to. Its a ban on a foreign made, imported product. This is not an attack on our right to arms, it is an attack on our right to free choice in the marketplace.

Its a royal pain in the rear, its going to cost people money and some people will lose jobs and some companies may go away and that's the breaks. Its a risk everyone who deals in or is a consumer of foreign products.

Consider this, if the President had banned importation of ammunition made in Russia 50 years ago, who would have cared??

Damn few.

With the fall of the Soviet Union we got access to low cost ammo, that we previously could not get. We like low cost, and we went for it in a fairly big way. Now, we're used to having it, and its going away. That alone makes us grumpy, but its not a direct attack on our rights, its an attack on our enjoyment of shooting through our wallets.

yes it absolutely is an anti-gun move. Just not a direct legal threat to our actual rights, as I see it.

You're welcome to disagree.
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