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Old August 22, 2021, 02:06 PM   #26
Ignition Override
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Interpretation of State Dept. language---there might be hope.
Note: I was in aviation, with no sort of legal background.

Some interesting points are made by people on other gun boards, based on the wording.

It appears that the wording ...might... only apply to any companies - new applicants - which Don't Already have the permits to import Russian ammo.

A Moderator on another gun board, among other people, pointed out that nothing states that companies "will" be denied the approval, only that they 'could' be denied, or similar words, if I understand correctly. He used words such as bureaucratic "argot", whatever that is.

Does this appear to be the situation?

The State Dept. could be using very unclear Bureaucratic language, possibly as a very vague threat to "tweak" Putin (or...restrict many US gun owners). Oil seems to bring in the vast majority of Russia's revenue - not commercial ammunition.

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Old August 22, 2021, 02:39 PM   #27
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Quote:
Does this appear to be the situation?
Negative. There are no open-ended permits. The "permit" they refer to is the Form 6, and that's done on a per-shipment basis. The order is to deny all future applications, which denies all shipments from Russian sources.

As of now, cheap Russian ammunition is a thing of the past.
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Old August 22, 2021, 03:51 PM   #28
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Executive orders only last until another President un-does them.
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Old August 22, 2021, 04:13 PM   #29
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Look at my first post on this thread.

Clinton's executive action from 1994 that halted most small arms and ammo imports from China is still in place 27 years and four presidents later.

Obama's executive action from 2014 that restricted some small arms and ammo imports from Russia is still in place 7 years and two presidents later.

It is certainly true that they might be undone by a future president. But it's also true that they can stay in place for a very long time--they can even be permanent for all practical purposes.
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Old August 22, 2021, 05:44 PM   #30
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You don't know how much this angers me!...Steel case has been my life blood as far as shooting for guns I don't reload for.....Well, I still got the bayonet on my SKS

I have four Makarovs, a CZ82 and a Russian SKS and shoot nothing but steel in these, I have some X39 and 9X18 squirreled away but that will surely dwindle now.

I know I ain't the Lone Ranger in this. Impeach the @##&*!!!
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Old August 22, 2021, 05:48 PM   #31
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I was thinking maybe Ukraine can step into the void...I'm sure the have the capability?

On second thought too, I had some Red Army Standard 9X18 that was made in Poland.

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Old August 22, 2021, 10:10 PM   #32
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Tula 7.62x39 154 gr Soft Point, which I use for plinking and hunting, is already impossible to find. I bought a case on Friday at ammunitiondepot (hasn't shipped yet) and there is no more to be found anywhere.

In just a few days, cheapest 7.62x39 has jumped from $0.37 a round for the cheapest stuff at Ammoseek on 8/20 (when I posted this OP) to $0.532 a round today 8/22.

Man, when I think I bought my first AR last November in 7.62x39 so that I could practice with a round that I could afford and also hunt with here in CO (.223 not allowed for hunting here). I feel stupid. I am thinking about going back to archery as a shooting and competition hobby and keep only the firearms that I strictly need for self defense.
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Old August 23, 2021, 01:03 AM   #33
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I am thinking about going back to archery as a shooting and competition hobby and keep only the firearms that I strictly need for self defense.
OR you could consider taking up reloading, and using a rifle that doesn't throw the empties into the weeds for hunting deer.

OR you could consider selling the 7.62x39 AR while there is still a market and replacing it with a common deer rifle, like a .30-30 Winchester.

OR you could consider a lot of other options. Don't feel stupid because you couldn't see the future and got something that you liked because it was economical at the time but today is losing that price benefit.

I'm old enough to remember when the only 7.62x39 ammunition was whatever got smuggled out of Viet Nam by GIs on their way home, and war tropy SKS were nearly all wall hangers because of no ammo.

And I remember the fall of the Soviet Union, and how in the years afterwards the US was flooded with cheap combloc guns and ammo. Lots of people got into them then, because of the low cost. And that created a demand in the US market that kept on after the supply of cheap surplus began to dwindle, even resulting is US makers producing 7.62x39 ammo and some guns as well.
Everyone is in a different place with their personal budget, and by all means if one hobby is too expensive (or gets that way after you've been in it a while) moving to something else is a solid choice.
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Old August 23, 2021, 09:17 AM   #34
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Another point that I have not seen brought up:
Tula already has a factory in Serbia.
Wolf has a factory in Ukraine.


Quote:
Actually, every batch has to have its own permit. The permits take 4-6 weeks to receive approval. The ban goes into effect in 3 weeks.
Yes and no. For ammunition, the permits are for a specified quantity.

If you get a permit for one pallet worth, shipping in 30 days, then that isn't very helpful.
But most permits are for large quantities. The specified quantity also does not have to arrive in a single container (whether boxed, palletized, or shipping containers).
And once a permit is approved, it is good for 24 months, beginning on the date of approval.

There is time.
It will end eventually.
But there is still time.
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Old August 23, 2021, 10:05 AM   #35
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Interesting article by Guns and AMMO.

https://www.gunsandammo.com/editoria...-halted/424581

So, Will the Biden Admin. Ban all imports from Russian to the US? Or just Ammo?

So if the Biden Admin. stops import of Ammuntion to the US, then someone will benefit from reduced prices. What Countries would Benefit? I mean that AMMO is going to go somewhere.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/e...eurasia/russia

​Imports

Russia was the United States' 20th largest supplier of goods imports in 2019.

U.S. goods imports from Russia totaled $22.3 billion in 2019, up 6.8% ($1.4 billion) from 2018, and up 22.3% from 2009.

The top import categories (2-digit HS) in 2019 were: mineral fuels ($13 billion), precious metal and stone (platinum) ($2.2 billion), iron and steel ($1.4 billion), fertilizers ($963 million), and inorganic chemicals ($763 million).

see more in link provide top

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; August 23, 2021 at 10:21 AM.
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Old August 23, 2021, 02:54 PM   #36
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Yet I can buy Russian vodka by the case.
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Old August 23, 2021, 04:33 PM   #37
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I almost pulled the trigger on a case of Tula today for $460 shipped...I just couldn't do it. I'll probably regret it in a month or two.
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Old August 23, 2021, 06:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
The intent, the way I read it, was to hit the Russian's in the pocket book, deny them profit.
Does the Russian government make that much off of export ammo sales? I doubt it. This ban is intended to hurt shooters in the USA, not the Russian government. If Biden wanted to hurt the Russian Government, he wouldn't have lifted the Russian pipeline ban.
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Old August 23, 2021, 08:19 PM   #39
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Does the Russian government make that much off of export ammo sales? I doubt it. This ban is intended to hurt shooters in the USA, not the Russian government.
Even as dumb as I am, that's my take-away too.
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Old August 23, 2021, 09:33 PM   #40
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Arm the most, vile, racist, evil Terrorist faction on the planet. Disarm the most productive, benevolent people in the world. This is the demented insanity we find ourselves in.
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Old August 23, 2021, 11:21 PM   #41
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And the terrible thing is I sold my last 7.62x39mm rifle and the reloading tools are still there. I even cast 160 and 129 grain bullets in that caliber. I think I will wait to find something someone dumps due to ammo supply, might be worth it to start casting for that caliber again. I haven't used ComBloc steel cased ammo in years. STILL, I agree this bites the big rotten carrot - ammo was JUST getting to be available again, which is probably the why on the timing.
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Old August 24, 2021, 03:44 AM   #42
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This kind of ban on ammo should be of no surprise.We knew it was going to happen. So many have been in denial. All part of the plan just like every thing else going on. Go to ammo seek almost any day and Tula or Wolf was always in the top 10 of low cost training ammo.
This is the summer doldrums. Ammo sales always pick up in the fall. And come this fall when demand goes up, the supply will go down and now even more.
Folks we are only into 7 months of the Biden admin. Expect many more bans and regulations, lawsuits etc to come down the pike. You do not need a crystal ball to see the future. It is like tomorrow has already happened.
US ammunition manufacturers are facing a great dilemma. Basically a great enemy coming down to destroy their lively hood. Basically similar to the billions of dollars of business losses from Riots across America. They are just being hit a different way.
What bothers me even more is that our Military also buys ammo from Russia. And a major loss of ammo and arms has just been witnessed which will supply our enemies.
Combine the lawsuites, bans etc, we need to prepare for a greater inflation. And that will make the cost of ammo rise even further.

In some ways, you have to appreciate the Enemy. They attacked, and they are winning. They have been successful and hit hard in just a short time. They learned from the old adage of 'How do you eat a elephant?'
ONE BITE AT A TIME. Lol, and they have 3 and 1/2 more years of prime eating to do. We served them on a silver platter.

There is also the quote. "They can do anything they want if we let them."

There is a war against our 2A rights. We have sustained many wounds in a short time. But the war is not over. Americans need to stand tall and keep up the good fight. We are not DONE yet.
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Old August 24, 2021, 10:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
What bothers me even more is that our Military also buys ammo from Russia.
Not in significant quantities and only for "opfor" training, it seems:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...weapons-164344

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
we need to prepare for a greater inflation. And that will make the cost of ammo rise even further.

[...] 'How do you eat a elephant?'
ONE BITE AT A TIME.
I agree with you that this is one of the cuts in "death by a thousand cuts".

But here could be a silver lining: if more ammo production starts moving to the USA growing the industry bigger, it will make it more difficult for politicians to go against 2A. But a re-shift in ammo production (which is sure to happen) will take at least 2 years, and in the mean time ammo prices are going to go up.

The larger the industry and the shooting community, the more difficult to go against 2A. Invite an anti to go shooting!
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Old August 24, 2021, 11:07 AM   #44
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Winchester, Federal, and CCI are my main sources in ammo and components. I'm trying very hard not to buy anything from adversarial nations. I would do better if there wasn't so much deception about country-of-origin.
If you can no longer afford mag-dumps, perhaps you might get some enjoyment in learning to shoot off-hand well with a bolt action or lever-gun....maybe even a revolver.
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Old August 24, 2021, 02:00 PM   #45
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The people most immediately and most seriously impacted by this are the recreational shooters shooting semi autos in mostly Soviet calibers. Their "cheap blasting" ammo is going away and is already about gone.

This isn't so much a serious assault on our rights, but it is a huge shot against the affordable fun factor. And its being done simply because they can, and do so under the cover story of "punishing" the Russian govt.

If I've got it right, it seems that the reason we are doing this is not because the Russians poisoned a political opposition leader, but because they did so with a chemical nerve agent they has signed a treaty promising they wouldn't use.

Not explicitly stated, but strongly implied, of course. We're not "punishing" them because they killed some poor guy, but because what they used violated some treaty. Or so it seems to me....

I'm sure that doing what we (our govt) is doing is considered a win-win by the administration. Sends a message to the Russians, without doing anything that actually matters, and hurts the recreational shooting class in the US at the same time.

and, as far as US ammo makers, "taking up the slack" and producing steel cased ammo, that isn't going to be happening in the near future. AFTER the US ammo makers catch up with demand for standard brass case ammo, and then have some excess capacity (or the funds) to invest in making replacements for what was coming from Russia, then, they may look into doing that, but only AFTER they catch up with demand for what they're already making.

and, I don't think that will be all that soon. Hope to be wrong, but don't think I am.
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Old August 24, 2021, 02:18 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pathfinder45 View Post
Winchester, Federal, and CCI are my main sources in ammo and components. I'm trying very hard not to buy anything from adversarial nations. I would do better if there wasn't so much deception about country-of-origin.
If you can no longer afford mag-dumps, perhaps you might get some enjoyment in learning to shoot off-hand well with a bolt action or lever-gun....maybe even a revolver.
What is this thing you refer to what was it, a "revolver?"

9mm prices are still coming down. It will take time. Everything went up in price due to production and transport difficulties.
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Old August 25, 2021, 08:23 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Joe_Pike View Post
I almost pulled the trigger on a case of Tula today for $460 shipped...I just couldn't do it. I'll probably regret it in a month or two.
I pulled the trigger on a case at .54

A little high but since it’s probably the last I’ll buy for quite a while it was worth it.
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Old August 25, 2021, 09:10 AM   #48
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Yesterday I broke an extractor using steel cased 7.62x39 Tula in my AR.

Maybe it is not a bad thing if this stuff disappears.
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Old August 25, 2021, 12:25 PM   #49
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What is this thing you refer to what was it, a "revolver?"
Its something grownups know about and children (no matter their chronological age) still have yet to learn.

No insult intended.
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Old August 25, 2021, 03:37 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Pistoler0 View Post
Yesterday I broke an extractor using steel cased 7.62x39 Tula in my AR.

Maybe it is not a bad thing if this stuff disappears.
Red X has assembled bolt on sale 49.99 free shipping. I just ordered one for a spare.

How many rds thru yours and what brand?
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