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Old August 16, 2021, 04:44 AM   #101
stagpanther
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Having some barrel nut shims around can be a work saver, (in a way)(ok scratch that, stress saver)

I’ve only needed them once, but sure helps when you need them.
Shouldn't need them with the Aero enhanced upper since the hand guard is fitted directly to the receiver and does not require timing/positioning of the barrel nut to be involved.
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Old August 16, 2021, 09:32 AM   #102
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Ah, I always forget about those aero uppers.
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Old August 17, 2021, 01:37 AM   #103
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Are you still working on this??? I thought by now you'd be out wearing out the barrel! Get on with it! Get out there and tell us how it shoots!
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Old August 18, 2021, 11:20 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Scorch
Are you still working on this??? I thought by now you'd be out wearing out the barrel! Get on with it! Get out there and tell us how it shoots!
Well, you see... it shoots terribly without a barrel and not much better when it had one.

Barrel arrived back at McGowen on Monday... as for the promised "in and out same day"... I haven't heard a word from them. I only know it arrived from tracking.
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Old August 18, 2021, 12:39 PM   #105
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Did you mark the barrel in some way to know if the same one comes back or if they just switch it out ?
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Old August 18, 2021, 03:04 PM   #106
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Did you mark the barrel in some way to know if the same one comes back or if they just switch it out ?
No, I'd honestly RATHER they swapped it out.

I just got a call from them... they suspect, of course, that it's everyone's fault but theirs.

First, it was the gas block

Him: "I can see soot where it wasn't lined up with the gas port"

Me: "Ok, how would that make the bolt lock up solid?"

Him, "Well it wouldn't".

Me: "Then that's not the problem"

Him: "Can you send us your bolt?"

Me: "Why?"

Him: Well short headspace could cause {something about jamming the lugs}"

Me: "It closes on factory ammo and cycles by hand just fine, wouldn't that indicate the headspace is not too short?"

Him: "Well, yes, but..."

Me: "and a case fired with the gas block shut measures within spec... wouldn't that indicate that headspace isn't too long?"

Him: "Well, yes... but...."

Me: "Then doesn't that indicate headspace is not the problem?"

Him: "Well, it should but...."

So not only is it now not "in and out same day", it's waiting another week just so they can get my bolt, that *I have to pay to ship*.
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Old August 18, 2021, 05:14 PM   #107
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Him: "I can see soot where it wasn't lined up with the gas port"
Do you have pics of that area of the barrel once you removed it for shipping ?

I had guy tell me this showed my gas block was not lined up correctly when I was having cycling issues . NO- the soot shows it was almost perfectly centered seeing how there is soot all the way around the port .

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Old August 18, 2021, 05:33 PM   #108
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Do you have pics of that area of the barrel once you removed it for shipping ?

I had guy tell me this showed my gas block was not lined up correctly when I was having cycling issues . NO- the soot shows it was almost perfectly centered seeing how there is soot all the way around the port .
Yeah--but it looks like a plume of gas cutting at the back of the gas block--looks like leaking to me.
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Old August 18, 2021, 06:54 PM   #109
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Yeah but leaking is not the same as misaligned . That leak if it was even effecting anything would self seal over a short time as carbon builds up ??

Regardless it was not the issue , I just posted the pic as a reference to what to look for , adding the possible leak can be helpful to others looking for that issue . I had some clear gas leaking on my NM front sight base/gas block which stopped after a couple hundred rounds and never effected the operation of the firearm . I bet a lot of us have leakage on are builds but most barrels are black and it's hard to see that soot coming out from underneath the block

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Old August 18, 2021, 08:58 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Metal God
Do you have pics of that area of the barrel once you removed it for shipping ?
I don't have pics, but I remember what it looked like. The soot around the vent was slightly off-center, toward the rear, left from the shooters perspective.

Regardless... as I told him, that obviously would not jam the action hammer tight.... even if one could argue it might under some unknown circumstance, t wouldn't when the gas block was *shut off*, which it was for a couple of rounds (which also jammed the action solid).
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Old August 18, 2021, 09:09 PM   #111
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No, I'd honestly RATHER they swapped it out.

I just got a call from them... they suspect, of course, that it's everyone's fault but theirs.

First, it was the gas block

Him: "I can see soot where it wasn't lined up with the gas port"

Me: "Ok, how would that make the bolt lock up solid?"

Him, "Well it wouldn't".

Me: "Then that's not the problem"

Him: "Can you send us your bolt?"

Me: "Why?"

Him: Well short headspace could cause {something about jamming the lugs}"

Me: "It closes on factory ammo and cycles by hand just fine, wouldn't that indicate the headspace is not too short?"

Him: "Well, yes, but..."

Me: "and a case fired with the gas block shut measures within spec... wouldn't that indicate that headspace isn't too long?"

Him: "Well, yes... but...."

Me: "Then doesn't that indicate headspace is not the problem?"

Him: "Well, it should but...."

So not only is it now not "in and out same day", it's waiting another week just so they can get my bolt, that *I have to pay to ship*.
The ARC uses a gredel BCG--and there IS a difference between type 1 and type 2 bolts breech face depth.
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Old August 19, 2021, 11:21 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Stagpanther
The ARC uses a gredel BCG--and there IS a difference between type 1 and type 2 bolts breech face depth.
Yes, that's true but you'd pretty much have to by "Type I" on purpose. If you buy a bolt or BCG for "6.5 Grendel" it would almost always be Type II... many of them don't even say specifically. The Type I practically doesn't exist, as far as normal open market products go.

You'd really have to buy the wrong one on purpose, or by pure dumb luck. Optics Planet, for instance, doesn't even appear to carry a "Type I"

Besides which, the brand I bought (Ballistics Advantage) doesn't even make a Type I.
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Old August 19, 2021, 12:18 PM   #113
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stuff happens, just sayin.

I don't doubt your account--but I have NEVER talked to anyone that sounded that clueless at McGowen--are you sure you talked to an actual technical engineer and not just a low -level knowledge salesperson?
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Old August 19, 2021, 06:28 PM   #114
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He called me... all I can tell you is he acted like he was the one that was going to be doing the work and he was adamant that he had to have my bolt to verify everything. At one point, after I got pissy, he said he could just polish it and send it back if I wanted, but at this point I really don't even care anymore. I'll send them the damn bolt and be done with it... after they get through blaming my stuff for their garbage, I'll get the barrel back and fix it myself if I have to.
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Old August 19, 2021, 06:48 PM   #115
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I’m not defending them but if I saw what appeared to be a misaligned gas block I’d wonder what else the “ Assembler “ did wrong and was trying to blame me for .

Again I’m not saying you did anything wrong Brian only thinking what a person that actually makes these things for a living might think about some random guy who put a bunch of random parts together and says my work is garbage .

I had a similar situation dealing with PSA and I could never get them to admit there chamber was out of spec . It was and still is , I chose to keep it for several reasons even though they offered to refund my money . You appear to headed down the same road .

To be honest I think you should ask for a refund . Unless it comes back flawless with a complete confession that they were all wrong , you likely are not going to be happy with this barrel . Anytime any little thing goes wrong you’re going to be “gosh darn barrel !!!! “ It’s time to move on if you can .
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Last edited by Metal god; August 19, 2021 at 11:48 PM.
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Old August 19, 2021, 07:19 PM   #116
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To be honest I think you should ask for a refund
Exactly my thought. I think you should just flat out tell em you don't like being led on, lied to (your words) and you are very disappointed for the experience. I'm not saying you didn't get a barrel with issues--I've had plenty of them--but at a certain point there's a "broken trust" where inside you regret ever having done business with them and would likely never do so again. Sounds to me like you're there. OTOH--I can tell you that there are barrel makers (probably most of them) that likely HATE hearing my voice on the line when I call about something or a problem, and it often becomes a test of wills "you screwed it up...no you screwed it up" etc. but at the end of the day...or days...or weeks, a really reputable manufacturer will try to tough it out and make things right, at least that's always been my experience, at least with custom barrels (complete firearms sold by idiot retailers is a different story altogether). I have almost always ended up with a stellar shooting barrel eventually, that's my goal and I can quickly forget the blah blah blah when the bullets are hitting the target accurately.
Quote:
Unless it comes back flawless with a complete confession that they were all wrong you were not going to be happy with this barrel
Sometimes it's better to give them a "graceful out."

Quote:
He called me... all I can tell you is he acted like he was the one that was going to be doing the work and he was adamant that he had to have my bolt to verify everything. At one point, after I got pissy, he said he could just polish it and send it back if I wanted, but at this point I really don't even care anymore. I'll send them the damn bolt and be done with it... after they get through blaming my stuff for their garbage, I'll get the barrel back and fix it myself if I have to.
It's not huge mystery why it may or may not work--they either reamed it correctly within tolerance--or they didn't. I can't think of why they asked for your bolt unless they believe there's a headspace or lug lock-up issue with your bolt--it does happen.
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Last edited by stagpanther; August 19, 2021 at 08:17 PM.
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Old August 19, 2021, 10:56 PM   #117
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That’s clearly what they believe.
He specifically mentioned both.

“We’ll it can’t be OUR fault… what else can I blame?!”

I just measured my bolt… 0.136 “headspace”. Lug length, 0.280, lug “height”/depth 0.120, bolt width 0.740
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Old August 20, 2021, 05:02 AM   #118
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Generally the spent brass "tells the story" pretty well. If you had a stuck case after firing, generally speaking a properly functioning gas system will "try hard" to extract it and failing to do so you would likely see damage to the case rim (assuming the extractor was properly engaged to it).

Do you by any chance have another AR? Builders often assume that every part made is to spec and therefore all tolerances are met. You build enough of them you'll realize that isn't always the case (hence doing the headspace check, but we've discussed that already). Although it is highly unlikely that an Aero Precision receiver is out of tolerance, I might try a different stripped upper for the heck of it (you can get stoner ones for cheap). Once in a great while a BCG might not "ride" in the upper properly, or the bolt's lugs may not engage the extension's lugs properly.

I'm going to guess odds are you'll hear from McGowen either that they mounted up your bolt in their hardware that they know is within tolerances and that your barrel functioned just fine, or that there was an issue with the bolt working properly. You might ask them to send you a copy of their chamber reamer's specs, it's not uncommon for cartridges to have different "flavors" of reamers.

PS--Is the bolt's "wall" (the circular area that surrounds the case) enhanced/strengthened (grendels are somewhat notorious for potentially failing in that area)? I have had a couple of enhanced bolts not engage an extension well.

Grendel and grendel based cartridges are great performers, but in my experience the silly things are among the most finicky of AR cartridges, the cases are "touchy" to correct sizing and those sexy long bullets seated way out there can also create issues for a magazine and feed ramp to get them into the chamber undamaged. I've always thought the 6.8 spc case was an overall better design (and stronger) than the grendel's--I've built lots of stepchildren of both cartridges and the 6.8 family is generally far less troublesome.
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Last edited by stagpanther; August 20, 2021 at 09:09 AM.
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Old August 20, 2021, 09:19 AM   #119
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Long ago I had cases sticking in a chamber in a new build and I had covered all the usual suspects with no success when none other than our own unclenick suggested that I might have a piece of debris imprinted to the chamber wall causing the problem. That never occurred to me (I didn't have a borescope back then) and sure enough after doing a "spin-cleaning" of the chamber wall the problem vanished. Nowadays I usually do a cast of a barrel's chamber if I have any issues with it that I can't resolve easily.
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Last edited by stagpanther; August 20, 2021 at 09:53 AM.
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Old August 20, 2021, 01:49 PM   #120
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Yeah casting the chamber and a little up the bore is always a good idea if you can . I did not recommend it because getting the stuff for a one time use did not seem like a good idea . However in hindsight it's probably exactly what he should have done . I'm not sure why but I can NEVER remember what this chamber casting material is called . Done/used right it's good stuff .
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Old August 20, 2021, 02:23 PM   #121
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It's called Cerrosafe, although I think there are other brands also.

I have some.
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Old August 20, 2021, 02:31 PM   #122
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Yeah that’s it
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Old August 20, 2021, 03:08 PM   #123
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When you buy a product in good faith,going off the Cerro-Safe land should be McGowen's problem if it is anyones.
I fail to see how it would help Peetza.

If McGowen has convinced himself (right or wrong) he needs you bolt to do you right,Maybe send him the bolt. He won't give you his best if he thinks the bolt may be the issue.But then he better have an answer or consider a refund.

I'd be asking myself "What are the odds I'll be happy with this McGowen barrel?"
At some point,I might be considering cutting my losses.

Sometimes custom building something nice involves feeding C-notes into the paper shredder till you find the path. R+D is expensive.
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Old August 20, 2021, 03:32 PM   #124
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When you buy a product in good faith,going off the Cerro-Safe land should be McGowen's problem if it is anyones.
I fail to see how it would help Peetza.
Not sure why but your attempts to discredit just about anything I write in multiple threads of late is getting old . Not because I can't handle it , rather because you are either wrong most of the time or at best half right .

Of course it would help , how could it not when you are in a dispute with the manufacture . You cast the chamber they claim is with in spec and send it back as they request . You now have an exact replica-ish of the very product they are now in complete control of . You can ask for the reamer specs as Stag points out and compare that to the mold to see if they match up . When it comes back you can cast that new/same chamber and compare and see if there are any changes and if that goes along with there explanation as to what was done if anything . The more I think about it I could go on and on of good reasons to have a copy of something two people are debating what the problem is . Especially when only one of them has control of the product hundreds of miles away and can claim anything .

You might want to think twice before taking digs at a member with out thinking your thought through .

MG
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Old August 20, 2021, 03:35 PM   #125
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I sent the bolt, I really don't give damn anymore anyway.

I may just take advantage of the still relatively hot market and see if I can get (50%) of my money back.

I never cared about ARs before, and I guess now I know why.
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