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Old October 20, 2021, 05:09 PM   #26
stagpanther
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Very good questions--very little info out in the wild from what I'v been able to find. Slow burners like Retumbo I've seen mentioned--as well as RE 22, 26 and H1000. Also seen mention of 7828. Seems like there remains some debate as to what "ideal" powders for the cartridge are and how they behave.
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Old October 20, 2021, 06:21 PM   #27
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Out of the ones you mentioned you will probably only find 7828. Ramshot magnum should work. Are you going use 6.5 prc data to start with? I've seen the 4831's used. I couldn't get my es and sd # good with magpro in the 6.5 prc.
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Old October 20, 2021, 09:28 PM   #28
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Out of the ones you mentioned you will probably only find 7828. Ramshot magnum should work. Are you going use 6.5 prc data to start with? I've seen the 4831's used. I couldn't get my es and sd # good with magpro in the 6.5 prc.
I have lots of 7828, some Retumbo and plenty of magnum and magpro as well. What little I could find on the 25 PRC suggests that what works well with the 6.5 might not for the 25. Still a relatively new cat with scant load info out in the wild. Probably going to have to do some telephone sleuthing--but I rather enjoy that with firearms concerns since we almost always get into long discussions which are great ways of gathering data for me.

BTW, received a message from preferred barrel blanks that my barrel is nearing the end of production. I must say I really appreciate their periodic updates as to where the barrel is in the production process, most others will politely tell you some version of "you'll get it when you get it."
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Old October 21, 2021, 05:47 AM   #29
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Case capacity should be around 68.5gr of water.

You may want to inquire about loads on a couple of other forums.
Accurate Shooter (6BR) forum, as well as Long Range Hunter. Ballistic Studies also, though they have different designations than the powder numbers we are used to.
I know guys on both forums shooting the 25PRC.
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Old October 21, 2021, 06:48 AM   #30
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Case capacity should be around 68.5gr of water.

You may want to inquire about loads on a couple of other forums.
Accurate Shooter (6BR) forum, as well as Long Range Hunter. Ballistic Studies also, though they have different designations than the powder numbers we are used to.
I know guys on both forums shooting the 25PRC.
Thanks for that 7mag, I've looked at all those forums too and have gleaned useful info--it seems to me that of those willing to post their results they are all "feeling things out" and there appears to be a bit of divergence between those that are focusing on 1,000 yd comps--and the rest of the shooters. I can only get out to a max of around 400 yds where I shoot, but I am principally interested in the higher BC blackjack, Berger and PVA bullets; it's also why I went with a long action and BDM to let me "stretch things out." I just loaded a few test cartridges with the 135 Bergers using ramshot magnum, even at a COL of 2.955 those bullets are seated pretty deep from what I can tell, but I don't have my barrel yet to get an actual chamber measure so I thought I'd start "conservative."

The issue with the 25 vs the 6.5, as far as I can make it, is that the burn characteristics in the two cases are not necessarily transferable because of the "large volume stubbiness" of the case being necked down to a small diameter caliber. There seems to be quite a speed spread in powders I've seen mentioned used in the 25 PRC from slow big-magnum powders to faster stuff.
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Old October 21, 2021, 10:25 AM   #31
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25 PRC loaded with ram magnum and Berger 135 gr hybrid. Now all I need is a rifle.



iPhone distortion--the case does not actually bulge towards the base like that.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5916.jpg (127.0 KB, 75 views)
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Old October 21, 2021, 04:10 PM   #32
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Hey Stag some Gunwerks 6.5 prc ammo showed up on GB today $775 for a 100 rounds.
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Old October 21, 2021, 06:04 PM   #33
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Sounds like a bargain!
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Old October 22, 2021, 06:36 AM   #34
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Interesting on the COAL of your cartridges!
I just did a ladder test with 120gr Partitions with RL19 in my 257 Roberts AI last weekend.
COAL 2.935" for 0.020" off the lands.

I have enough of the 115gr Berger VLDs to load the 257 Roberts for hunting. But not enough to do load development for the AI.

I really wish Berger would do a Hybrid in 115gr!
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Old October 22, 2021, 09:20 AM   #35
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Interesting on the COAL of your cartridges!
I just did a ladder test with 120gr Partitions with RL19 in my 257 Roberts AI last weekend.
COAL 2.935" for 0.020" off the lands.

I have enough of the 115gr Berger VLDs to load the 257 Roberts for hunting. But not enough to do load development for the AI.

I really wish Berger would do a Hybrid in 115gr!
I think the PRC was designed as a "wink wink" short action action--maybe to make extra money in AR platform, who knows, but realistically I think it needs to be in a long action to really exploit its potential. As for your desire of a 115 hybrid that can also be used for hunting, take a look at these by PVA.
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Old October 22, 2021, 11:51 AM   #36
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Just received notice from PBB that my barrel has shipped! That's an amazing 3 week turn around after I placed the order!
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Old October 22, 2021, 02:47 PM   #37
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Oh, i've looked hard at the bullets from PVA, and Peregrine.

Unfortunately, with my 1:10 twist barrels i'm stuck with 90gr or less Mono bullets.
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Old October 22, 2021, 04:43 PM   #38
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There is just something about short, fat rounds with steep shoulders and a small bullet in relation to the diameter of the case that makes me get all warm and fuzzy inside.

I am itching for that 6.5 PRC project of mine to come back from the Smithy, and then there is my 300 WSM that just belches power!!!
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Old October 22, 2021, 05:38 PM   #39
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300 WSM that just belches power!!!
Nothing like a cartridge that belches!

I have a 270 WSM and it's nice--I think the idea behind the PRC is sorta like what the 6.8/270 western is to the 270 WSM; knock the shoulder back a bit so you gain more room for the longer higher BC bullets.

Quote:
There is just something about short, fat rounds with steep shoulders and a small bullet in relation to the diameter of the case that makes me get all warm and fuzzy inside.
I call it "PPC syndrome"--the grand-daddy of the laser-beam fat boys. LOL
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Old October 22, 2021, 07:18 PM   #40
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Okay, really ignorant question: isn’t 6.5 mm already .25? How is the .25 prc different from the 6.5 prc?
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Old October 22, 2021, 08:16 PM   #41
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No the 25 is a .257 diameter bullet the 6.5 is .264.
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Old October 22, 2021, 10:17 PM   #42
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As Sako said.
That and 6.5 PRC is a standardized cartridge.
25 PRC is a wildcat.
Same with 25 WSM, 25 SAUM, 25-284, 25-350 Rem Mag, 257 Roberts AI, 25 Souper, 250 Savage AI, and a host of others.
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Old October 22, 2021, 10:56 PM   #43
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25 PRC is a wildcat.
Same with 25 WSM, 25 SAUM, 25-284, 25-350 Rem Mag, 257 Roberts AI, 25 Souper, 250 Savage AI, and a host of others.
Which sort of begs the question to the astute reader--why is that? Probably a combination of things, the traditional role of the .257 bullet was generally limited to lighter weight bullets in slower twist barrels, but recently folks like Miles Johnson at Blackjack and Brian Litz at Berger have pushed the boundaries of the .257 projectile and discovered that it can be made into a very high BC that flies with remarkable efficiency. But it comes at a cost, they need to be driven quite fast in a faster twist barrel. The 257 Weatherby, along with the 25-06 right behind it, was the main SAAMI-speced cartridge that was "out there" pushing the .257 at extreme velocities, but at the time the very high BC and heavier projectiles did not exist, and twist rates are not up to the task of stabilizing the newer projectiles. There's also the overbore issue when taking a big volume case and necking it down to push small diameter bullets--there's no free lunch, as they say--so these newer 25 cartridges are probably going to appeal to a "select audience" (or curious nut cases like me). Miles in particular seems determined to find the ultimate balanced high performance 25 cartridge--so maybe one of his cats will eventually be mainstreamed into SAAMI-speced stardom.
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Old October 23, 2021, 03:36 AM   #44
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Kind of interesting read about wildcat 25 ca

https://westtexordnance.com/25-saw-c...e-development/
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Old October 23, 2021, 04:50 AM   #45
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Thanks for that old roper--gives me more information to work with. What strikes me right off the bat is how well that cartridge gets em out to 1000 yds--and it's quite a bit lower capacity than the PRC case. Couple of other factors strike me, the PRC case, which I believe was initially designed to handle pressures in the short action AR 10 platform, is rated up to around 64/65K psi whereas this SAW is down around 51K. Looking at the list of powders he used, they look similar to what I've seen people use in the 6.5/25 PRC; they sort of stray between a range of medium/slow powders like you might find in creedmoor/284/280 cartridges all the way up to slow powders for Saturn booster sized big magnum cases. I get a little nervous about unused case capacity depending upon the nature of the powder and case.
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Old October 23, 2021, 05:50 AM   #46
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Oh no--just checked on the barrel status and it has gone out USPS--their entire web system is down.
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Old October 23, 2021, 05:52 AM   #47
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The story of Savage going with the 87gr bullet & slow twist to get that first magic number of 3,000 fps is as old as the cartridge. Would things have been different had Charles Newton not caved to Savage & used the 100gr projectile as he recommended, who knows?

I thought the PRC case was the answer to the 6.5 Needmore. As in needed more velocity.

Actually, Gunwerks got the people at Hornady thinking about it with the colaboration between them on the 7LRM. Gunwerks was looking for a velocity improovement over the 7mm Rem Mag, with inexpensive, readily available brass. Enter the 375 Ruger case necked down.

I don't know much about the SAW, other than the military acronym for Squad Automatic Weapon.

I wonder where proprietary cartridges fit into the mix?
Names & cartridges of Dakota and Lazzeroni can get ones creative juices flowing.
Something like a 6.53- 7.21Tomahawk.

Figure out a way to get Peregrine bullets from South Africa and i'm all ears!
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Old October 23, 2021, 07:33 AM   #48
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I have a 375 ruger--there's really nothing in common between it and the PRC other than maybe it was a convenient starting point for the convolutions that ended up being the PRC. But that does give it presumably extra strength; though I've found hornady brass to be generally a bit softer than that of premium brass makers. I'm using it because it's the only stuff I can find--and only in loaded factory ammo at that.

It seems the 120 gr on up 25 caliber bullets are really the threshold break-throughs for the "new generation" of 25 caliber rifles. The results are startling with high BC heavier bullets, they also have the advantage of modest recoil, probably of more interest to the comp crowd.
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Old October 23, 2021, 07:41 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by deadcoyote View Post
Okay, really ignorant question: isn’t 6.5 mm already .25? How is the .25 prc different from the 6.5 prc?
6.5 x 0.03937” = .2559” technically yes, its darn close to quarter bore. Even a thousandth under it. But for some reason, gunmakers (and toolmakers for that matter) are odd ducks.

Take 303 British…. Its .311 or ~7.7mm.

The standard “go to” conversion for metric to Yankee is 1mm = ~0.040”, so 6.5 x 0.040” would get you to .260. But I won’t beat a dead horse. I don’t mean to insult. I just learned this over my years of working on guns as a hobby. The Chamber marking sometimes is misleading.

Stag panther, did I mention to you about 25 Creedmore to you at all?? Read about it in a magazine, it is a fat, stubby cartridge with a .257 long for caliber bullet.

Only concern I have with a lot of wildcats, and even magnum cartridges to a point, is being over bore an burning tubes out. On other side of same coin, I am not shooting nearly enough rounds through a barrel to warrant worrying about it being an issue for me. If I put five boxes of shells a year through it, its a lot.
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Old October 23, 2021, 11:19 AM   #50
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did I mention to you about 25 Creedmore to you at all?? Read about it in a magazine, it is a fat, stubby cartridge with a .257 long for caliber bullet.
The 25 creed has been around for a while--and is a good one. If you go to Blackjack's website you can find all the "usual suspects" that he is using to find the optimum 25 high BC rifle. He mentions his current favorite is the 25-284, which, like the creedmoor, would not only be an easy neck down--but equally easy to find brass and dies for--unlike the PRC.
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