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Old October 22, 2021, 01:27 AM   #1
Metal god
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I want to install new barrel on Savage Model 10

I'm looking to buy a new barrel and would like to install it my self . What specific tools do I need ?

Tools I have

Vice
Torque wrench
Go-NOGO-Field gauges
Most basic tools everyone should have

What do I need ? I looked into this several years ago and now thinking hard about actually doing it . meaning anything I'm about to say is old memory so be nice lol

I've seen specialty barrel nuts that seemed like a good idea or kinda cool .

FWIW This is a Model 10 with Accu-stock and I plan to get a new fancy stock as well . Again researched this years ago and was confused as all get out because of the accu-stock requirements . I forget why but the accu-stock receivers have a design that is different then there standard receivers and some if not most after market stocks wont fit ??? Any help with that would be great as well .

Barrel looking to get
https://criterionbarrels.com/product...v=7516fd43adaa

This will be 308 Win but they have 2 different chamberings I'm looking at and not sure what is best . Standard 308 or the M118 LR . I've never heard of the latter so which is best for my application ?

This is for target shooting out to about 800yds maybe 1k from time to time . I reload my own ammo and understand the process pretty well . The lightest bullets this will see are 168's but it will be eating 175/178 through 200,20x most often . If I can find a good deal the 190gr smk is where I want to be . I have some 195gr ELD match bullets I've tested recently that seem pretty good as well .

Likely looking at the 24" Light varmint with a 1-10 twist but thinking about ditching the 200gr+ bullets all together and going with a 1-11 twist ?? Will the 195gr ELD be stable in a 1-11 twist ? Not sure how fast I can push them from a 24" barrel , maybe 2500fps or a tic faster ??

As for a stock , long ago I was looking at some H-S Precision's but not sure what I want now . Most of the shooting will be prone in the field with bi-pod or bags . Does not need to be to fancy and I'm not looking to break the bank $400/$500max but If I can come in under that with a nice solid stock I'm all for it .

Thanks ahead of time
MG
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Old October 22, 2021, 07:18 AM   #2
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Metal God,

I'd probably reccomend a Heavy Varmint contour.
Unless you plan on carrying it any distance for hunting.
And i'd stay with a 1:10 twist. Maybe even slightly faster. 1:9.

Along with your vice & torque wrench, you'll want the following.
1) a 3lb hammer
2) barrel vice, gets held in your bench vice.
3) Savage nut wrench. I have a Wheeler.

Remove stock.
Slide nut wrench over barrel.
Slide barrel into barrel vice.
Position wrench & give good rap with hammer to loosen.
Screw the action off.

I use a torque wrench set to 80 ftlb to install the barrel nut.

As for aftermarket nuts, i'm using a NSS (Northland Shooters Supply)trued nut, along with a PTG recoil lug on my bench rest build.

As for stocks.
There are 2 different length actions.
The older action being 4.27" between action screws.
You having the Accu-stock is telling me you probably have a newer action which should be 4.40" between action screws.
Then there is top bolt release and bottom bolt release.

Boyds and Richards both make wood stocks decently priced.
Choate make composite stocks with aluminium bedding. They are HEAVY, but decent and decently priced.
GRS makes some very interesting composite stocks that can be found at a not obscene price.

For shooting 800-1,000 yards, i'd look to replace the trigger also.
I went with Rifle Basix for my build. But really hard to go wrong with a Timney also.

You'll also want a 20 MOA base.
I use & recommend EGW. But there are others out there.
Highly recommend the EGW Keystone line of rings!
These things are seriously overbuilt!

Regards!

Std7mag
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Old October 22, 2021, 07:27 AM   #3
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Barrel nut wrench, action wrench, GO and NO GO gages cartridge specific, a heavy vise on a sturdy workbench, aluminum based anti seize for installation of new barrel. A plumbers torch, large pipe wrench, and a cheater bar can come in handy as well. Order a new a new barrel nut and a precision ground recoil lug with the barrel. Savage uses about 1 million ft pounds of torque on their factory barrels. I have fought with about a half dozen and I either needed to use a 3 pound sledge on the nut spanner wrench or pull out a 24 inch pipe wrench and use a cheater bar. heating the nut up with a plumbers torch helps sometimes. Don't worry the torch cannot get the barrel or the nut hot enough to lose the temper. It's a fight to just get it up to 400 - 500 F to try and break loose whatever thread sealant Savage uses

When you buy consider doing business with

Northland Shooter Supply.

James is a great guy to do business with.

Edit - just clicked your link, yep you will be using NSS. You are making a good choice, all those pics I link on here were mostly shot with Criterions on Savage actions. NSS is great, if the barrel is on the shelf James will have it on the truck the next day maybe two days at most. Orders that are custom made are drop shipped and can take a few weeks/months. My personal preference is Criterion over Shilen, NSS sell both and sometimes they will push the Shilens. Just my personal preference but the Shilens seem more finicky for load development, but on the other hand they break in super fast
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Old October 22, 2021, 07:49 AM   #4
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I'll second Hounddawg with NSS!
Also Sharp Shooters Supply.
Although ordering from either place is kind of archaic. No online ordering. Both do phone in ordering. SSS also has a form you can download & snail mail in.

I've never had to use a torch to get a barrel off of a Savage.
An old Mauser, yeah! Along with a 3ft pipe wrench & an 8lb sledge hammer.
Barrel was toast anyways.

But the new Savages have some sort of steel balls (almost like shot blast) in the actions. Real PITA to get out!
Especially if you want to get the barrel nut off of the barrel.

And i'll also secong some silver anti seize!
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Old October 22, 2021, 08:04 AM   #5
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How was SSS on delivery times std7mag? I have never dealt with them but they used to be notorious for long delivery times. A buddy of mine ordered one of their benchrest stocks and it was over a year before he got it. This was years ago but it scared me off from ever using them
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Old October 22, 2021, 10:19 AM   #6
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I do what houndawg does for barrel install/removal. I avoid using barrel clamp if at all possible--action wrench being preferable. A Brownell's action clamp that can be used in a heavy vice is what I use about 90% of the time, it doesn't need to be torqued hard around the action because you lock the position of the action into the lug cutout. If it's a shouldered or smooth nut--I do what houndawg suggests by heating the barrel nut up with a torch to melt/unlock their mystery micro-bead thread locking material and the use a pipe wrench on the nut--comes off easily when done that way--otherwise they are a PITA. Most of the time, the barrel nut is a throw-away after removal IMO, pretty much the lug as well. NSS does indeed make great lugs and nuts--but IMO Patriot Valley Arm's are even better, but you won't go wrong with either one. Be careful when torquing your new barrel nut on after setting the headspace--barrel nuts can spin with the action--and barrels can spin with the nuts--meaning always double-check headspace after fully torquing the barrel nut.

Quote:
But the new Savages have some sort of steel balls (almost like shot blast) in the actions.
I don't think so--next time you get a barrel off take a torch to them and they should melt. Wouldn't make sense anyway IMO getting steel mixed into the equation of receiver and shank threads engaging.
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Last edited by stagpanther; October 22, 2021 at 10:37 AM.
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Old October 22, 2021, 11:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
always double-check headspace after fully torquing the barrel nut.


X2. Easier to unscrew the barrel nut and reset headspace than to reassemble the rifle and find out you cannot close the bolt on the GO gage becasue you screwed the barrel in slightly while torquing the nut.

Alternately after setting headspace using the GO and No GO gages is put a layer of blue painter tape on the bolt end of the GO gage, trim all the way around the edges with a razer blade or scissors to make sure it is a single layer and does not run over the edge of the gage. You chamber it and close the bolt before torquing the barrel nut. That way even if the barrel turns in slightly you will still have about .002 of headspace.
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Old October 22, 2021, 12:35 PM   #8
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Thanks guys lots of good info in here . Anybody just leave the gauge in the chamber while torqueing it down . Some slight binding on a NOGO sounds like it would be GTG ?

What about those chamberings standard vs M118lr ??? The 118lr seems like the one I want but who knows , Would I want one of the others FT-R or Palma ? I'll be using LC brass and Lapua and at least for now , I will not be turning my necks so I don't want any chamber with a tight neck .

As for contour and stock . I may be carrying the rifle in the field . Not so much to hunt but some areas to shoot will be a trek . I figured the stock was likely going to be heavy and I didn't want to compound that weight with a heavy barrel . The rifle now is a stock FCP-K and I added weight to the stock by making a mixture of bondo and BB's ( BAD IDEA ) .



Worked great to add the weight but is permanent . I also added a adjustable cheek weld/raiser which is easy to install , just drill a couple holes through the stock and attach . Problem is I now understand why lock makers use ball Barings as a drill defense . Drilling through the bondo and BB's caused the drill bit to lock up and or jump around causing the final hole to be way out of round . Still works but but not very clean looking . I later was told about plumbers putty and fishing weights to add weight . In a bag it's very easy to remove if need be and is what I use in my AR NM A2 stock .

Anyways I know the rifle in general will be heavy-ish . Understanding that I'd like it as light as possible while excepting that it will have some weight to it .
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Old October 22, 2021, 01:31 PM   #9
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you should never be able to close the bolt on the NOGO. If you can you have excessive headspace. The painters tape on the GO should give you GO dimensions + .002, which is pretty near the perfect amount as near as I can tell. Play around using your comparator and the gages and you will see what I mean.

Edit a tight neck refers to the outside dimension of the neck part of the chamber. That is determined by the reamer, not bt setting headspace. Anything from Criterion will be SAAMI specs unless the neck dimension is mentioned in the description such as a .262 neck. If you wanted a tight neck you would need to send in your own custom dimensioned reamer. You will see barrels offered in match and regular versions. Match chamberings have a longer throat for use with longer heavier bullets

Edit two - for a stock consider the Boyds Pro Varmint or Varmint thumbhole. Classic looks, inexpensive, and stiff as a board. I don't bother with bedding but either pillar bedding or full bedding is an option
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Old October 22, 2021, 03:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Edit a tight neck refers to the outside dimension of the neck part of the chamber. That is determined by the reamer, not bt setting headspace.
Understood and why I brought it up in relation to which chamber cut I should get ? I was assuming the FT-R and Palma chambers likely have tighter necks then the standard 308Win chamber and not sure where the M118LR stands in all that .

Oh and I have a bottom bolt release which has been what's been confusing to me . I would have bought a new stock years ago if I knew what to get or how to order them for my rifle .
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Old October 22, 2021, 03:28 PM   #11
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Looks like Criterion offers 4 different .308 chamberings, I learned something new here. Call Northlands and ask James to explain the differences. He is good people and very knowledgeable and will help you with your decision
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Old October 22, 2021, 04:58 PM   #12
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Silver or Copper anti seize is a great point, well made by many on here. I have also had GREAT luck with stuff called “blue lube”, its an anti-seize developed for stainless, to help prevent the galling of SS on SS. But it can be used on whatever metals you’re mating. Be careful, its tacky, and it is like the High Spot Blue of olden days. Mother of Mercy, and Angel of Pain I kid you not when I say WEAR GLOVES AND DON’T get it on anything you don’t want it on. Stuff is a miserable pain, stains, and sticks to everything.

Got it under my fingernails when assembling a pressure assembly at work, no amount of scraping and rubbing alcohol could get it gone. But it sure does help when putting SS stuff together. I use it on high torque applications at home, too. Just seems to break free a little easier, too, once you need to take it apart again.

I like where people on here are going with getting a new barrel nut. Figure the threads on the nut are fatigued from that “million pounds of torque” the factory uses. That and the dynamite loc-tite compound they use. Reminds me of when I ripped the barrel off of an old Mauser 98 for a project about a year ago. Hooooooooooly crap those Germans had a strong glue batch that day. Over 100 years old, that thread torque and the locking compound they used that day, second to none for hold.

You should be good with the tools and stuff you have, plus what the people here have told you. You’ll be punching holes in no time.
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Old October 22, 2021, 04:59 PM   #13
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I also second the Boyd’s gunstocks. They look and feel great for everything I have put them on. Affordable to boot!
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Old October 22, 2021, 10:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Anybody just leave the gauge in the chamber while torqueing it down . Some slight binding on a NOGO sounds like it would be GTG ?
I wouldn't do that--the guage is steel so while your torquing the nut down you're potentially providing "wedge forces" between steel and steel if anything moves or rotates. You need some way of knowing that there is some measure of space that allows proper cycling and head spacing between the datum in your chamber and the bolt breech face. If you were to "wing it" using only one gauge--IMO you'd be better off doing it with a go gauge and adding extra thickness to the rim face, preferably with metal shims but tape can do "in a pinch."

Something many people don't think about--but there are variations in both reamers and gauges so it's not necessarily an "automatic one gage measures all." I've encountered at least a couple times gauges that varied enough to result in potentially unsafe headspacing even when operating exactly as they were supposed to. Since I don't ream my own barrels I like to know what the manufacturer used, and I prefer top quality ones like JGS, Manson and PTG--same is true for gauges.
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Old October 22, 2021, 10:34 PM   #15
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Sharp Shooter Supply (SSS) was ok to deal with.
I ordered the single feed load ramp from them. Arrived in a couple of days.

The Shilen barrel i ordered from NSS. Was about $80 cheaper ordering through them.
Was told 12 weeks. Finally got it after 18 weeks. Totally Shilens doing, not NSS!

If your gonna carry the rifle, i'd do light varmint barrel contour.
Also nix the Choate stock i had said about. The Ultimate Varminter stock i got from them weighs 4lb!

LC is decent brass, but thick. Start your powder charges on the low side, as the build up pressure quick.
I'd probably look at Lapua, ADG, or Peterson brass.
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Old October 23, 2021, 07:53 AM   #16
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Also, a friend of the family gave me a little technique for head spacing after you’ve torqued down the barrel nut or fitted a barrel. Once you have triple checked that your Go and No Go gauges give reliable results, and check again.

Then take a fresh brass case, and with a jeweler’s file or really thin hack saw blade, cut a slit down the length of the neck of the case, NO primer or powder. Stick the bullet you want to use in the case and just start it using your reloading press.

Open action, feed the “round” into the chamber, slowly close the bolt, and lock it. Leave it for 15 seconds, extract it. Measure with calipers or a micrometer (I’m neurotic and use micrometers). This will give you the absolute longest the OAL can be before it touches the lands. Set your bullet seater to this size, and then 1/4 turn further down. Check again to make sure bullet doesn’t touch lands anymore. Set!

Taper crimp to make sure nothing moves in recoil. I have had phenomenal results using this method. YRMV. I’m no expert, so your methods may be very different.
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Old October 23, 2021, 08:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Also, a friend of the family gave me a little technique for head spacing after you’ve torqued down the barrel nut or fitted a barrel. Once you have triple checked that your Go and No Go gauges give reliable results, and check again.

Then take a fresh brass case, and with a jeweler’s file or really thin hack saw blade, cut a slit down the length of the neck of the case, NO primer or powder. Stick the bullet you want to use in the case and just start it using your reloading press.

Open action, feed the “round” into the chamber, slowly close the bolt, and lock it. Leave it for 15 seconds, extract it. Measure with calipers or a micrometer (I’m neurotic and use micrometers). This will give you the absolute longest the OAL can be before it touches the lands. Set your bullet seater to this size, and then 1/4 turn further down. Check again to make sure bullet doesn’t touch lands anymore. Set!

Taper crimp to make sure nothing moves in recoil. I have had phenomenal results using this method. YRMV. I’m no expert, so your methods may be very different.
Sounds like a variation of "let's find the lands"--not sure what that has to do with head spacing. You're OAL is also likely to be projectile-specific.
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Old October 23, 2021, 08:54 AM   #18
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Definitely headspace it.

You may need a finishing reamer too. Go slow with it and check frequently.
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Old October 24, 2021, 09:45 AM   #19
std7mag
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It's a Savage.
Unless he's changing the chamber to AI, or some other special chamber configuration he won't need a reamer.
Criterion will have already done that work on the barrel before they ship it.
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Old November 8, 2021, 05:29 PM   #20
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Just ordered the barrel , wrenches , lug and barrel nut .

24" Criterion
308 Win M118 LR chamber
1-10 twist
Light Varmint contour
Recessed crown

Thanks guys for your help . I'll be asking for more help in about 23 weeks .
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Old November 9, 2021, 11:56 AM   #21
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is that 23 weeks as in 6 to 7 months ? I liked the good old days of 6 - 8 weeks
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Old November 9, 2021, 07:47 PM   #22
Metal god
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is that 23 weeks as in 6 to 7 months ? I liked the good old days of 6 - 8 weeks
Yep .... crazy right but it might be good because that barrel pretty much maxed out my budget for a couple months . This will allow some time and I should be able to have the new stock and maybe even a scope all ready to go when it arrives .

FWFW The difference in the chamberings is the leade/throat length . 308 win is SAAMI spec , M118lr has a longer throat by like .040 , the FTR has even a longer throat by another .050 or so . Those aren't the exact numbers but gives the basic idea . He recommended I get the FTR if I was going to be shooting to 195gr ELD's or the 200.20gr Bergers but I'm already shooting those in my standard 308 win chamber . That made me think the slightly longer M118 should be fine .

Him and I had a bit of a disagreement on Savage vs Rem chambers . He said they both have long leades and pretty much lumped them together . I disagreed and felt Remington's are way longer then Savage . Regardless I just felt the FTR was going to be to long . Yes I shoot the 190 to 200gr bullets but not all the time . 175/8gr to 190gr is more likely what that barrel will see most .

I'll also Note this was my first time ordering a custom barrel so I came off a bit uneducated and he was fine with that while he asked questions but I could tell he just wanted to get the order over with . This is not a slight , he was professional and was a great help . I just think I heard an under tone that was not ... something IDK .

Anyways , very happy this is moving forward been wanting to do this for awhile .
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Old November 10, 2021, 04:15 PM   #23
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thanks for the heads up Metal on the timeline. Guess I better get a couple or three new barrels on order, don't need them yet but may as well get ahead of the game
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Old November 10, 2021, 04:47 PM   #24
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Guy i shoot matches with ordered his barrel for his bench rest rifle in June. Was told March or April next year for it.
Granted, i'm not sure the manufacture of the barrel, but i have a good idea who the smith is that's going to do the work on it.

Who did you order your barrel through, Metalgod?
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Old November 10, 2021, 07:46 PM   #25
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It’s not just whomever you guys used, but I was going to order an off the shelf Proof Research, it just wasn’t right for what I wanted. So I went the route of Carbon6, and they told me 6 months in March of 2021. Finally got it in September, so it was 6 months to the day that it shipped.

March or April of next year is a deal after how long I waited. I see that a lot of manufacturers are gearing up so strong that they are starting to catch up to demand.. They keep that up, and they will outpace it and make things easier to come by again.
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