Federal Syntech

ciwsguy · October 19, 2021, 07:05 PM

Bought a couple of boxes of these a few months ago when pistol ammo was extremely short supply and just now looked at the box. On the back, it states these contain catalyst high performance lead free primers. That may explain the somewhat higher box price than standard FMJ 9 mm. Has anyone else tried these syntech rounds? I recall they were around $25 per box about 9 months ago at a LGS.
I’ve shot some of my reloads I loaded with polymer coated bullets, but I’ve never found any lead free primers anywhere so have no experience with them. I have heard that lead free primers shoot much cleaner than lead styphanate primers.
What do you folks think of the Federal Syntech ammo? Can I expect cleaner performance and less cleanup?

Jim Watson · October 19, 2021, 07:14 PM

Syntech, especially 150 gr 9mm is popular with factory load shooters in IDPA and USPSA.
I reload so haven't used any.

I wonder if Federal would have gone with more Catalyst primers if not for Covid, even selling them for reloading.

TunnelRat · October 19, 2021, 07:37 PM

I know RUAG, which is under Dynamit Nobel AG, has offered ammunition using lead free primers for some time.

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wild cat mccane · October 20, 2021, 01:17 PM

Federal Syntech is from 2015.

It comes in personal defense HST/Gold dot match levels (purple color) and range (red color).

Then they released the PCC version.

When I first bought 9mm Syntech in 2016, the box stated the round was good for exactly one year from manufacture. That is now gone. This was directly because of the primer you are asking for. Why it was there the first place? I don't know. I don't think it was right.

Like Federal PUNCH which Federal claims is the cheaper version of the more expensive HST, it has never been cheaper than HST 50rnd boxes. Syntech has never been cheaper than American Eagle. Makes particularly no sense now given Federal is stating copper prices is why they are screwing us on prices. Sure the case is brass and has copper, but the bullet is the most copper component...so...why the same price on Federal's website.

The primers are fine. You'll only hear mixed results of the different Syntech rounds accuracy. I think you'll see most of those comments don't know there are 3 types of Federal Syntech rounds (red/purple/PCC).

I have shot about 4 cases of Syntech and have no problem. I do recommend purple syntech which mimics the defense rounds (higher FPS).

Ruag uses it too like TunnelRat said. You can currently buy it at AmmoShopOnline.com in white box "Swiss" military 124gr. Happens to be the cheapest 124gr FMJ in the US right now. Which I find extremely odd. I bought a case of it and it's great from my shooting. I have used 11 boxes.

And of course there is Speer/Federal Lawman that is TMJ copper bullet. They CCI/Federal also has Lawman "Clean Fire" with some clean primer. I have no idea the primer on those. I really like them though. They are currently $35 a box, making no sense at all. Lawman Clean Fire has a "CF" stamped in the primer. Only reason these could possibly be $35 is to scam people into thinking they are direct comparisons to CCI Gold Dot (which they are suppose to be, but who cares).

Again, like TunnelRat said, Ruag uses these primers, they are the cheapest 124gr FMJ in the US, and these prices from Switzerland makes me think that US based Federal can shove it?

TunnelRat · October 20, 2021, 01:25 PM

I also bought a bunch of the Ruag and it works well. The only issues I’ve heard of it is that on some reloader forums I saw it might have two flash holes in the brass because of those primers and may complicate reloading a bit (I don’t reload). It is supposedly heavy metal free as well as lead free, so supposedly better for you on indoor ranges (Ruag actually mentions this in their marketing material for cartridges with those primers).

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wild cat mccane · October 20, 2021, 01:41 PM

As the wife says, there is ZERO acceptable amounts of trace lead levels through the lungs. I am near 100% a "clean" Winchester, Federal/CCI, Ruag shooter.

I have had no issues with the "clean" primers from the four brands. A real "meh" to the difference between the Syntech encapsulation vs copper.

Jim Watson · October 20, 2021, 02:40 PM

Federal Catalyst is said to be aluminum, bismuth oxide, and nitrocellulose. Presumably patented.

RUAG is cagey about their primer mix, but I wonder if it is Dinol, DDNP which Winclean uses.
Two flash holes is for Berdan primers, no relation to the mix unless it is like the 1920s Swiss noncorrosive primer which was very mild and needed a lot of mix in the roomy Berdan cup.
But Dinol is hot, leading to the much despised .45 ACP small primer case.

TunnelRat · October 20, 2021, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

Federal Catalyst is said to be aluminum, bismuth oxide, and nitrocellulose. Presumably patented.

RUAG is cagey about their primer mix, but I wonder if it is Dinol, DDNP which Winclean uses.
Two flash holes is for Berdan primers, no relation to the mix unless it is like the 1920s Swiss noncorrosive primer which was very mild and needed a lot of mix in the roomy Berdan cup.
But Dinol is hot, leading to the much despised .45 ACP small primer case.

It’s not Berdan primed. That was what annoyed the reloaders, the inconsistency of it. I’ll try to find the thread but I’m almost positive it was Boxer primed.

Edit: here it is

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/F...---/42-513491/

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wild cat mccane · October 20, 2021, 07:16 PM

https://www.ammoshoponline.com/shop/...gr-fmj-qty-50/

Ruag SX

Jim Watson · October 21, 2021, 06:27 AM

That's just weird.
First generation Winclean .45 ACP with large primers just had larger flash holes. The Europeans go full rocket science with two directional Venturi flash holes.
But maybe SINTOX is way different from Dinol.

wild cat mccane · October 21, 2021, 09:05 AM

A fairly old discussion I've learned:

https://www.osti.gov/etdeweb/biblio/6849082

wild cat mccane · October 22, 2021, 08:37 AM

I just can't understand a darn thing right now. We are getting so hosed to the point I can't even listen to political wrangling over gun laws vs what the ammo community is doing to us.

SGAmmo sent an email for their low priced $22 box of Igman 124gr FMJ. Igman is from Yugoslavia. Couldn't find cheaper crap on the planet.

Swiss made 124gr FMJ with a special/higher priced primer is $322 for a case, with a 10% code and free shipping from the Swiss owned AmmoShopOnline.com.
https://www.ammoshoponline.com/shop/...ders-over-200/

TunnelRat · October 22, 2021, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

I just can't understand a darn thing right now. We are getting so hosed to the point I can't even listen to political wrangling over gun laws vs what the ammo community is doing to us.

SGAmmo sent an email for their low priced $22 box of Igman 124gr FMJ. Igman is from Yugoslavia. Couldn't find cheaper crap on the plant.

Swiss made 124gr FMJ with a special/higher priced primer is $322 for a case, with a 10% code and free shipping from the Swiss owned AmmoShopOnline.com.
https://www.ammoshoponline.com/shop/...ders-over-200/

What 10% code? It’s that price as soon as you add to cart.

Sgammo is gouging and has been for months, even you’ve said as much. I ignore their emails these days.

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wild cat mccane · October 22, 2021, 08:49 AM

code "FMJ" was working.. No longer it appears. Still good for 10% at Normashooting.com using "FMJ."

Both free shipping.

On this point of discussion, Norma isn't offering a Syntox round on Normashooting. So sorry for the off topic on that one.

TunnelRat · October 22, 2021, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

code "FMJ" was working.. No longer it appears. Still good for 10% at Normashooting.com using "FMJ."

Both free shipping.

On this point of discussion, Norma isn't offering a Syntox round on Normashooting. So sorry for the off topic on that one.

Thanks for the code

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wild cat mccane · October 22, 2021, 09:16 AM

I used it for a shload of their 38 special which is also the cheapest for us poor US consumers

Two cases coming my way

TunnelRat · October 22, 2021, 09:27 AM

That 9mm FMJ is appealing, but I need frangible and they have it for $0.36 a round, which is way less than the $0.50 a round locally or the $0.43 a round elsewhere online.

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wild cat mccane · October 22, 2021, 09:41 AM

ow! on topic now. Fangible like that...that is typically toxic metal free? Going to go check that out. Good call.

TunnelRat · October 22, 2021, 11:04 AM

Yeah frangible is just compressed copper typically. I have a course coming up that has to be inside and I think is on a range that requires frangible. There are two ranges and one doesn’t have a good enough ventilation system for indoor lead usage.

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Jim Watson · October 22, 2021, 02:33 PM

Quote:

A fairly old discussion I've learned:

https://www.osti.gov/etdeweb/biblio/6849082

That does not lead to a copy of the full article, but the references include several mentions of DDNP, brand name Dinol. Same or similar to Winclean.

wild cat mccane · October 22, 2021, 08:27 PM

If you have university library log in, follow the link on the left side to the pdf from Wiley. I don't want to quote from it...

Bet someone could locate it on google scholar or elsewhere too. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ep.19860110606

But point being it's 1986 that this Sintox primer is discussed. Interesting.

Here is direct from the manufacturer Federal at $28 a box of fangible. https://www.federalpremium.com/handg...11-AE9LF1.html

Federal just released a new line like the Lawman Clean Fire. I wonder if that is why Speer Lawman has basically vaporized from the market in 124gr? Again Federal charging double manufactured in American vs imported from heavily socialized more expensive Swiss Ruag posted earlier.
https://www.federalpremium.com/handg.../11-AE9N1.html

Vista had removed the normal TMJ Lawman from the Speer website for a few months, but the regular is back on along with Lawman CF: https://www.speer.com/ammunition/lawman/

US based Vista...stop ripping us off and blaming inflation in all your stupid CEO youtube movies?

October 19, 2021, 07:05 PM	#1
ciwsguy Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Location: KY Posts: 302	Federal Syntech Bought a couple of boxes of these a few months ago when pistol ammo was extremely short supply and just now looked at the box. On the back, it states these contain catalyst high performance lead free primers. That may explain the somewhat higher box price than standard FMJ 9 mm. Has anyone else tried these syntech rounds? I recall they were around $25 per box about 9 months ago at a LGS. I’ve shot some of my reloads I loaded with polymer coated bullets, but I’ve never found any lead free primers anywhere so have no experience with them. I have heard that lead free primers shoot much cleaner than lead styphanate primers. What do you folks think of the Federal Syntech ammo? Can I expect cleaner performance and less cleanup?

October 20, 2021, 01:17 PM	#4
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	Federal Syntech is from 2015. It comes in personal defense HST/Gold dot match levels (purple color) and range (red color). Then they released the PCC version. When I first bought 9mm Syntech in 2016, the box stated the round was good for exactly one year from manufacture. That is now gone. This was directly because of the primer you are asking for. Why it was there the first place? I don't know. I don't think it was right. Like Federal PUNCH which Federal claims is the cheaper version of the more expensive HST, it has never been cheaper than HST 50rnd boxes. Syntech has never been cheaper than American Eagle. Makes particularly no sense now given Federal is stating copper prices is why they are screwing us on prices. Sure the case is brass and has copper, but the bullet is the most copper component...so...why the same price on Federal's website. The primers are fine. You'll only hear mixed results of the different Syntech rounds accuracy. I think you'll see most of those comments don't know there are 3 types of Federal Syntech rounds (red/purple/PCC). I have shot about 4 cases of Syntech and have no problem. I do recommend purple syntech which mimics the defense rounds (higher FPS). Ruag uses it too like TunnelRat said. You can currently buy it at AmmoShopOnline.com in white box "Swiss" military 124gr. Happens to be the cheapest 124gr FMJ in the US right now. Which I find extremely odd. I bought a case of it and it's great from my shooting. I have used 11 boxes. And of course there is Speer/Federal Lawman that is TMJ copper bullet. They CCI/Federal also has Lawman "Clean Fire" with some clean primer. I have no idea the primer on those. I really like them though. They are currently $35 a box, making no sense at all. Lawman Clean Fire has a "CF" stamped in the primer. Only reason these could possibly be $35 is to scam people into thinking they are direct comparisons to CCI Gold Dot (which they are suppose to be, but who cares). Again, like TunnelRat said, Ruag uses these primers, they are the cheapest 124gr FMJ in the US, and these prices from Switzerland makes me think that US based Federal can shove it? __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM. Last edited by wild cat mccane; October 20, 2021 at 01:38 PM.

October 20, 2021, 01:25 PM	#5
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	Federal Syntech I also bought a bunch of the Ruag and it works well. The only issues I’ve heard of it is that on some reloader forums I saw it might have two flash holes in the brass because of those primers and may complicate reloading a bit (I don’t reload). It is supposedly heavy metal free as well as lead free, so supposedly better for you on indoor ranges (Ruag actually mentions this in their marketing material for cartridges with those primers). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; October 20, 2021 at 01:43 PM.

October 20, 2021, 01:41 PM	#6
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	As the wife says, there is ZERO acceptable amounts of trace lead levels through the lungs. I am near 100% a "clean" Winchester, Federal/CCI, Ruag shooter. I have had no issues with the "clean" primers from the four brands. A real "meh" to the difference between the Syntech encapsulation vs copper. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

October 20, 2021, 07:16 PM	#9
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	https://www.ammoshoponline.com/shop/...gr-fmj-qty-50/ Ruag SX __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

October 19, 2021, 07:14 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Syntech, especially 150 gr 9mm is popular with factory load shooters in IDPA and USPSA. I reload so haven't used any. I wonder if Federal would have gone with more Catalyst primers if not for Covid, even selling them for reloading.

October 19, 2021, 07:37 PM	#3
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	I know RUAG, which is under Dynamit Nobel AG, has offered ammunition using lead free primers for some time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

October 20, 2021, 02:40 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Federal Catalyst is said to be aluminum, bismuth oxide, and nitrocellulose. Presumably patented. RUAG is cagey about their primer mix, but I wonder if it is Dinol, DDNP which Winclean uses. Two flash holes is for Berdan primers, no relation to the mix unless it is like the 1920s Swiss noncorrosive primer which was very mild and needed a lot of mix in the roomy Berdan cup. But Dinol is hot, leading to the much despised .45 ACP small primer case.

October 21, 2021, 06:27 AM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	That's just weird. First generation Winclean .45 ACP with large primers just had larger flash holes. The Europeans go full rocket science with two directional Venturi flash holes. But maybe SINTOX is way different from Dinol.

October 21, 2021, 09:05 AM	#11
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	A fairly old discussion I've learned: https://www.osti.gov/etdeweb/biblio/6849082 __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

October 22, 2021, 08:37 AM	#12
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	I just can't understand a darn thing right now. We are getting so hosed to the point I can't even listen to political wrangling over gun laws vs what the ammo community is doing to us. SGAmmo sent an email for their low priced $22 box of Igman 124gr FMJ. Igman is from Yugoslavia. Couldn't find cheaper crap on the planet. Swiss made 124gr FMJ with a special/higher priced primer is $322 for a case, with a 10% code and free shipping from the Swiss owned AmmoShopOnline.com. https://www.ammoshoponline.com/shop/...ders-over-200/ __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM. Last edited by wild cat mccane; October 22, 2021 at 08:50 AM.

October 22, 2021, 08:49 AM	#14
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	code "FMJ" was working.. No longer it appears. Still good for 10% at Normashooting.com using "FMJ." Both free shipping. On this point of discussion, Norma isn't offering a Syntox round on Normashooting. So sorry for the off topic on that one. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

October 22, 2021, 09:16 AM	#16
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	I used it for a shload of their 38 special which is also the cheapest for us poor US consumers Two cases coming my way __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

October 22, 2021, 09:27 AM	#17
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	That 9mm FMJ is appealing, but I need frangible and they have it for $0.36 a round, which is way less than the $0.50 a round locally or the $0.43 a round elsewhere online. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

October 22, 2021, 09:41 AM	#18
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	ow! on topic now. Fangible like that...that is typically toxic metal free? Going to go check that out. Good call. __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.

October 22, 2021, 11:04 AM	#19
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	Yeah frangible is just compressed copper typically. I have a course coming up that has to be inside and I think is on a range that requires frangible. There are two ranges and one doesn’t have a good enough ventilation system for indoor lead usage. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

October 22, 2021, 08:27 PM	#21
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 3,626	If you have university library log in, follow the link on the left side to the pdf from Wiley. I don't want to quote from it... Bet someone could locate it on google scholar or elsewhere too. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ep.19860110606 But point being it's 1986 that this Sintox primer is discussed. Interesting. Here is direct from the manufacturer Federal at $28 a box of fangible. https://www.federalpremium.com/handg...11-AE9LF1.html Federal just released a new line like the Lawman Clean Fire. I wonder if that is why Speer Lawman has basically vaporized from the market in 124gr? Again Federal charging double manufactured in American vs imported from heavily socialized more expensive Swiss Ruag posted earlier. https://www.federalpremium.com/handg.../11-AE9N1.html Vista had removed the normal TMJ Lawman from the Speer website for a few months, but the regular is back on along with Lawman CF: https://www.speer.com/ammunition/lawman/ US based Vista...stop ripping us off and blaming inflation in all your stupid CEO youtube movies? __________________ My wife is a pulmonologist (respiratory Dr) and epidemiologist. If you have any questions on COVID, please reach out to me in PM.