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Old January 12, 2024, 09:49 PM   #26
JustJake
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Hey all. I'm bored with 5.56, tired of building the same old AR's, thinking of building something bigger. .300 Blackout might be an option but...was thinking maybe .350 Legend? 6.8SPC (if anyone shoots that anymore?) Maybe .450 Bushmaster? I'm looking for ammo that's not going to be TOO expensive or hard to find, need something reliable, parts availability that's not too exotic, something that might be used on occasional pig hunt.
That cartridge already exists. ... It's called the 7.62/.308.

Best platform for it is the AR-10 running SR-25 pattern mags.

You will have no issues.
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Old January 13, 2024, 02:01 AM   #27
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7.62 nato end of ideas..
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Old January 14, 2024, 07:44 PM   #28
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.308 is the answer you seek.
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Old January 15, 2024, 11:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by kymasabe View Post
Hey all. I'm bored with 5.56...

I'm looking for ammo that's not going to be TOO expensive or hard to find, need something reliable, parts availability that's not too exotic, something that might be used on occasional pig hunt.
Your thoughts ?
Good, defined desire, potential uses, and not a reloader.

While there are a LOT of calibers that can be jammed into an AR15, once you leave the .223 casehead, cost of ammo and parts goes up significantly.

With a .223 Case head, you are probably looking at one of two...

300 Blackout. Run at Supersonic speeds with a longer gas system, it does a lot of things really well, including Deer and Hog hunting at appropriate ranges. You can buy an upper this morning and be shooting it on your AR15 lower, with AR15 mags, this afternoon. Ammo is the cheapest of the lot of alternative, larger bore AR15 compatible cartridges. Most folks look at the 300 BO for a shorter barrel shooting subsonic, but on the other side, with a properly set-up system, it could be compared to the .30-30 classic.

350 Legend. Also based on the .223 casehead, but you might or might not need to modify or use magazines without the forward rib. Still, a simple purchase of an upper and ammo and you are off to the range. More comparable to the .35Rem, it's a very capable cartridge with ammo a little more expensive than the 300 Blackout.

Those two are my thoughts based on what you said. Both are buy a barrel and then use everything else AR15. When you go to some of the better ballistics calibers, you increase case head diameter, so special bolts and mags in addition to the barrel. So more expensive to build and to feed as ammo is much more expensive.

IF, however, you are open to the large frame AR, then the obvious choice is a .308. You can go mild to wild, and in most cases they are cheaper to feed and build than the higher performance AR15 calibers that others have suggested in this thread.
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Old January 15, 2024, 02:53 PM   #30
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300aac is the most economical option to venture away from .223.
Most barrel options out there are pistol length gas systems.
I’ve tried two configurations, pistol and 16” barrels. The pistol was reliable with supers and subs. The 16” is over gassed and required two tungsten weights to get it to run perfectly, but not a huge issue. It’s a fun caliber and isn’t as loud as other cartridges, even with supers.

6.8spc is a solid performer, but you need a bolt and special mags, and I recommend ARP barrels. 6.8spc ammunition availability has been spotty in the last year or so.
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Old January 17, 2024, 07:09 AM   #31
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7.62x39 is a viable option. They do use a different mag design but with the proper mags mine has been flawless, or if you only load five at a time a standard mag works fine. I just use ten round mag off a bench for load development. It may not shoot bug holes but mine has been sub 2MOA out to 200 yds which for me is it’s usable range and plenty good for hunting. Of course this is with handloads, I’ve only tried PMC factory ammo and it’s slightly larger group wise but consistent.
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Old January 17, 2024, 10:47 AM   #32
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I have been looking at the 7.62x39 too. What groove diameter does the barrel have? 0.310” or 0.308"? Thanks.

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Old January 17, 2024, 03:15 PM   #33
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I have been looking at the 7.62x39 too. What groove diameter does the barrel have? 0.310” or 0.308"? Thanks.

-TL

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Mine is .310, which I believe has become pretty much standardized in the US now. The only rifles in 7.62x39 I’m personally aware of were the early Mini-30’s, I had one from the first production run and when I put in some Russian military ammo you could definitely feel a difference in recoil from the tight bore. Not sure how true this is but I’ve also read where the early Mini-30’s bores were tapered from .310 at the bore down to.308 a few inches from the muzzle.
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Old January 17, 2024, 04:22 PM   #34
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Mine is .310, which I believe has become pretty much standardized in the US now. The only rifles in 7.62x39 I’m personally aware of were the early Mini-30’s, I had one from the first production run and when I put in some Russian military ammo you could definitely feel a difference in recoil from the tight bore. Not sure how true this is but I’ve also read where the early Mini-30’s bores were tapered from .310 at the bore down to.308 a few inches from the muzzle.
Thanks. I was hoping it was 0.308". I handload. Bullet selection for 0.310" is way more limiting.

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Old January 17, 2024, 05:16 PM   #35
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I have a Grendel, 300 HAM'R, and 450 Bushmaster. The HAM'R comes in at less than 7# with 1x4 Leupold.
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Old January 18, 2024, 06:08 AM   #36
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Thanks. I was hoping it was 0.308". I handload. Bullet selection for 0.310" is way more limiting.

-TL

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I handload as well and not only is bullet selection more limited, it also tends to be more expensive. I did like the ability to use.308 bullets in the original Mini30, even though when I got it accuracy was pretty horrible I did manage to get it down to sub 2MOA with some trigger work, a good handload, and mounting a scope on it. I killed quite a few deer with that rifle.
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Old January 18, 2024, 08:26 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy
I handload as well and not only is bullet selection more limited, it also tends to be more expensive.
I agree your selection isn't great on bullets for the 7.62X39. I'd disagree about it being more expensive for the bullet component 16-30 cents seems about the going rate for 123 grain. That's pretty comparable to the 125-130 grain bullets used often in the .300 BLK.
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Old January 18, 2024, 08:43 AM   #38
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I buy bulk .310 SSTs from midway when they get them in, and they usually do at some point. Not only is it cheap in bulk, but it's also one of the best performing 7.62 x 39 bullets in both my AK and 7.62 x 39 AR.
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Old January 18, 2024, 06:56 PM   #39
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I’m probably doing an unfair comparison thinking more like the cost of .224 bullets. I haven’t bought any .308 caliber bullets in a long long time so they just seem pricey. I’ll have to check on Midway again since I have plenty of powder, brass, and primers.
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Old January 18, 2024, 09:00 PM   #40
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Look for factory seconds at Midway. Sometimes half the cost.
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Old January 19, 2024, 12:03 PM   #41
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I’ve built and owned many AR’s in 5.56, .300, and 6.8. I finally built an aero M5 pattern AR 10 a few years back and that thing is amazing. If I could do it all over again I’d probably just own one each of a really nice 5.56 and .308. The performance difference for hunting is super noticeable, the .308 just anchors animals every time.
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Old January 26, 2024, 07:53 PM   #42
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> 6.8 SPC

I'm going to vote for that one. Starline stocks brass for it, and there are still companies that load complete ammo.

The 6.8 is very close to the British 7mm Enfield "intermediate" cartridge that the Brits put a lot of work (including testing in actual combat) into. It was supposed to be a joint US/British thing, until the US Army announced they wouldn't even consider anything with less power than the .30-06 and the whole deal fell apart.

The 6.8 has decent ballistics, light recoil, and is good for medium game.


Another option would be the 6mm/.223 or 6x45. That's a wildcatted version of the .223 Remington. It was a popular bench rest cartridge for a while. The US Army tested it as a replacement for a 5.56x45. It was better in almost every test, but not better enough to make it worthwhile to change. (the same reason the .60 BMG was never adopted)

More recently, it has been extremely popular as a target cartridge in the Phillippines. There's also an impressive selection of appropriate target and hunting bullets in 6mm, and brass is dirt cheap.

Downside: might not be different enough from 5.56 to be worth your while, and I don't see any barrels for it out there, so you'd have to add "buy a reamer" and "profile a barrel blank" to the other costs of going to that caliber.
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Old January 29, 2024, 08:29 PM   #43
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I am quite partial to the 6.5 Grendel, it's become my go-to deer rifle. same basic ballistics at the muzzle as 7.62x39 but much flatter shooting making it pretty effective out to 200 yards and beyond. wolf/WPA used to do some pretty cheap ammo runs for it but now with russian ammo being impossible to find that's done for but the other day I think I recall seeing a sale on some fiocchi ammo in 6.5G. it's not cheap, probably about on part with 308 but unless you're thinking of dropping down to a 9mm carbine you're not going to really find anything that's cheaper than 70 cents a round at the moment.

not to knock the 9mm AR15 though, that's my favorite plinker overall, it gets used even more than my 22s.

edit
and just in case you're entertaining all the recommendations for 308.
AR10s are WAY heavier than AR15s and 308 ballistics are pretty terrible out of 16 inch barrels. hope you like 12 pound guns that barely outperform 7.62x39mm.
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Old January 31, 2024, 04:58 AM   #44
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https://www.firearmsnews.com/editori...-length/470822

The .308 Win is still a powerful round at 16" and saying that it's no better than a x39 is false info. That and a Ruger SFAR only weighs 6.8 pounds with a 16" barrel.
https://ruger.com/products/sfar/specSheets/5610.html

Even the S&W 20" barrel .308 AR, is only 8 pounds, moving up to an SR-25, it only weighs 10.5 pounds.

And the .308 still outclasses the 6.5 Grendel https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-...oogle_vignette
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Old February 2, 2024, 05:29 PM   #45
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built a 6arc a year ago...total B.A.M.F. The biggest challenge I had was ammo, brass specifically...but easy enough to resize from 6.5 grendel. Plus, hornandy just announced (in october) a 87gr high-expansion varmint bullet. Going to have to find something use use my 108's so we have some empty brass.
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Old February 10, 2024, 09:52 AM   #46
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Between my brother and I we have AR's in 22LR, 204 Ruger, 5,56, 22 ARC, 6.5 Grendel, 300BO, and 300 HAM'R.
The 6 ARC is not bad, and a 6.8 has some good points also.
A buddy has a 350 Legend.

No real wrong answers. Cost of ammunition can be a factor to consider. I reload, so Brass is my main concern. Availability of ammunition is also a consideration. I prefer the 300 HAM'R over the 300 BO. Lots of options to consider. Decide what meets your needs best.

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Old February 10, 2024, 11:43 AM   #47
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Primer price has become paramount. I have been avoiding 7.62x39 as most brass require LRP. 6 arc doesn't, so I ordered a barrel. I plan to convert brass from 6.5mm Grendel.

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Old February 10, 2024, 12:08 PM   #48
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I plan to convert brass from 6.5mm Grendel.
I made my ARC brass from grendel brass--the biggest problem is figuring out how to segregate it from your Grendel brass if you still have Grendel chambered rifles.
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Old February 10, 2024, 03:01 PM   #49
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Changing the "G" in "Grendel" to "6" on the head stamp with electric pencil will do it.

6rendel

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Old February 11, 2024, 06:51 AM   #50
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I made my ARC brass from grendel brass--the biggest problem is figuring out how to segregate it from your Grendel brass if you still have Grendel chambered rifles.
You could mark the brass with one of those jigs using a Sharpie marker.
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