Repro Kar98 sniper build

[Jo6pak]

OK, so I'm not sure if this truly belongs in C+R, Bolt rifle, or Smithy forums; but I thought this would be the place to get the best answers.

I have Yugo Kar98 Mauser and am toying with the idea of building it into a reproduction sniper version to resemble the German sniper rifles of WW2.
As far as I can figure a ZF39 scope is what I should get. But should it be with a side mount or standard rings on top?


Would I need to modify the bolt handle or safety as well?

I've been doing some research but it's hard to find out exactly what I need to consider with the build

I don't have a ton of money to spend and don't want to modify too much on the rifle. Just trying to decide if I should go ahead with the project or not.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Sources?

Thanks

[Scorch]

There are books about sniper rifles in both world wars. The German army had sniper rifles just like the US, Russian, and British armies. The German army had lots of good optics and scope mounts. The ZF39 scope was not intended as a sniper weapon rifle scope, it was for infantry troops, probably on a par with today's designated marksman rifles/scopes. Later on it got put to sniping use, but that was not its intended role.

[Jo6pak]

I realize that there are many scopes that were used; ZF39, ZF41, ZF42, etc.

I can't seem to track down a ZF42 repro, and I prefer the look and mounting of the ZF39 as opposed to the little ZF41.
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/zf39k98mau...y.aspx#reviews

[Jimro]

Jo6pak,

First off, is it a Yugo remarked K98 like a Preduzece 44? AFIK those were rebranded K98s so a side rail and ZF39 would be "historically correct" for a standard length K98.

The Yugo M48's with the intermediate length action, I don't know for sure as I've only ever seen them with the ZRAC sniper scope mounted.

If you want to compete in Vintage Sniper matches, any German/Yugo/Czech 8x57 short rifle will be competition legal with a slide rail and ZF39 mounted, even if it is not technically period correct for the country of origin.

Hope this helps.

Jimro

[Jo6pak]

Thanks Jimro.

Yes it is a remarked Preduzece 44.

No plans for matches, just want a vintage style sniper. And since I can't afford a Swede sniper, the K98 I have is the next best thing

[emcon5]

The ZF39 scope was not intended as a sniper weapon rifle scope

That is incorrect, you are probably thinking of the ZF-41, which is a long eye relief scope mounted at the rear sight.

ZF39 is a conventional 4 power scope with a BDC.

Here is a ZF-39 repro with side rail from Sarco:
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/zf39k98mau...tassembly.aspx

And a ZF41 repro
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/comboofzf41scopeandmount.aspx

The Germans used several types of mounts, here is a general overview from Law's Backbone of the Wehrmacht, Vol. II: Sniper Variations of the German K98k Rifle:

Short side rail 1937 Some SS used snipers were conversions of G98s, later made by Berlin-Lübecker Maschinenfabrik, Mauser Oberndorf and JP Sauer & Sohn

Low & High turret 1939, High vs low was evidently determined by the availability and variation of commercial optics. Some scopes needed to sit higher to clear the bolt handle. Early examples made by Army Ordinance offices, later produced Mauser Oberndorf and JP Sauer & Sohn

Long side rail 1943, developed by JP Sauer & Sohn with thicker receiver wall, produced primarily by Gustloff-Werke

Single & Double claw Both introduced in 1943, primarily used by Waffen SS, who made their own sniper rifles.

Swept back/ZF4 1945, attempt to standardize on the Zf4 scope originally designed for G43. They didn't get far before the war ended.

The easy button would be to buy a mount from Accumounts and send it and the rifle to someone to install, like this guy on Gunbroker. I haven't used him (yet) but he appears to have a good reputation.

As to the scope, there are a lot of reproductions out there, and the latest offering from China looks promising, http://stores.ebay.com/PLA-Outdoor-S...sub=3574675010 but I have yet to hear of any long term reports of how well the ZF-39s hold up. Some folks on Gunboards have his reproduction PE/PEM scopes and are satisfied.

There are also a lot of older German scopes on ebay that while not technically "correct" are close enough for a repro. Or you can use an El Paso Weaver K4, the old steel bodied 4X scopes, that will not look completely out of place.

[Jimro]

Jo6pack,

I wanted a Swede Sniper for Vintage Sniper matches so I bought an M96, paid to have the short slide rail added and bolt bent (I provided the gunsmith with my Swede M38 bent bolt to use as an example) and topped it off with a Weaver K4.

300 bucks for the rifle of of gunbroker.com, 200 for the short side rail, and 40 bucks for the Weaver K4. One of these days I'll find an Ajack 4x90 for cheap (fingers crossed).

Currently I have a 1943 K98 and short slide rail and repro ZF39 just waiting to get put together. The short slide rails were used from 37 to 44 if I remember.

But if you wanted "authentic" and didn't mind a post WWII build, you could get the Mauser Banner mounts and a ZRAC scope. Those were used in the Balkans quite a bit. Probably a bit cheaper to go with the side rail and ZF39 though.

http://www.p-a-distributing.com/optics.html
http://www.p-a-distributing.com/mounts.html

Jimro

[emcon5]

But if you wanted "authentic" and didn't mind a post WWII build, you could get the Mauser Banner mounts and a ZRAC scope. Those were used in the Balkans quite a bit. Probably a bit cheaper to go with the side rail and ZF39 though.

http://www.p-a-distributing.com/optics.html
http://www.p-a-distributing.com/mounts.html

Those have been showing as "New Products Coming Soon" since about 2008. I contacted them back in 2012 and they never responded.

[Jimro]

Must be a dead company then. Sarco looks like a much better option.

Jimro

[Jo6pak]

Excellent info there emcon5, cheers!

I am in the middle of a project on the Jeep right now. But once that is tidied up and I free up some funds, the K98 may be the next.

I do think I will go with the ZF39. It's historically accurate and I also like the look of the side mount. When I get closer to the build I will decide whether to go with SARCO or one of the other company. I have a hunch that they are all selling the same scope from the same manufacturer.

Is the side mount something that I should have a gunsmith do, or is it a simple home project?

Heck, if I do it in time, I may even take it deer hunting next November

[emcon5]

If it was me, I would send it not only to a gunsmith, but someone who had done it before. Looking at the description and photos from the Gubbroker dude, it looks fairly involved:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=406926580

I don't think the Sarco and Chinese ZF-39 copies come from the same source, I believe the Sarco ones, (and I think Accumounts sold some too) come from Eastern Europe or Ukraine. The Chinese copies also have green tinted optics, never heard of the Sarco ones having that.

[Jo6pak]

Yeah, I saw the differences after I posted here.

Looks like I will also need to add the "flag" safety.

This little project is adding up fast.
$400 for the scope and mount
$300 for the mounting
$ ? for the safety.

I'd have $1k in it before I am done

The M96 Swede sniper hunt may start again...

[Jimro]

The gunsmith I had do the work on my Swede charged 175 to mount the base and scope. The job involved relieving the stock, drilling the guide pin holes, drilling and tapping the base screw holes, and mounting the rail to the receiver.

He said he liked it when folks came in with jobs like mine, so he might have cut me a discount.

But no matter how you look at it, even if you do end up with 1k into the rifle, it will be complete with optic, sight base, and ready to shoot. Most modern sniper rifles are well past 1k by the time they are set up to shoot.

Jimro