Are there any rifles that have no POI shift with a bayonet attached?

[Andrewsky]

I've noticed that with a Lee Enfield or a Mosin attaching a bayonet shifts the POI dramatically (~8 to 10 MOA). Are there any rifles where this is minimized?

[TXAZ]

Is the bullet hitting part of the bayonet?
I seldom shot my AK with the bayonet but the POI didn’t change the few times I did.

[kozak6]

Seems like mutually exclusive concerns.

There is (for some reason) such a thing as rail mounted bayonets. I'd imagine one of those would do the trick.

[Mobuck]

Adding that much weight to the muzzle could easily change the barrel harmonics. If nothing else, putting the weight so far out front will change the recoil movement and move POI.

[emcon5]

Never experimented with it but in theory a German K98k should have less, because if the bayonet has no contact with the barrel. There is no barrel ring on the bayonet, and the weight should be entirely held by the stock.

The weight would also affect how the rifle moves under recoil, which will change POI, so there will be a change. How much would need some testing.

[TXAZ]

Originally Posted by Mobuck

Adding that much weight to the muzzle could easily change the barrel harmonics. If nothing else, putting the weight so far out front will change the recoil movement and move POI.

If there's no contact between the bullet and bayonet, Mobuck may have nailed it.

[T. O'Heir]

"...a Lee-Enfield..." That depends on which rifle you have. The bayonet on a No. 4 attaches directly onto the barrel. On a No. 1 Rifle it does not. The No. 4's, at 13.5 ounces, will cause the barrel to be pulled down a tiny bit causing the POI to change.
"...Is the bullet hitting part of the bayonet?..." If it did there'd be a catastrophic failure. Bullets do not bounce off bayonets.

[Aikibiker]

Must be one heck of a POI shift to notice it at bayonet range.

[pete2]

Both my 10/22s are ok with the bayonets attached.

[bn12gg]

Pete LOL. !

[44 AMP]

The result can vary between individual rifles, some showing a lot of shift, some showing little, or even none, but its an individual thing. There is no class, or model where one can say positively that the impact will not shift when the bayonet is fixed.

[Scorch]

Are there any rifles that have no POI shift with a bayonet attached?

M40 106mm recoilless rifle?

As others have noted, hanging a heavy weight on the barrel will change harmonics and cause the barrel to droop.

[the rifleer]

I dont think it has anything to do with where the bayonet is mounted, I think it has to do with the a difference in air pressure/gas expansion hitting the bayonet as the bullet leaves the barrel.

I think the smaller and more narrow the bayonet, the less effect it is going to have.

[Ricklin]

The barrel harmonics can change. I think the weight of the bayonet has a definite impact.

[44 AMP]

I think it has to do with the a difference in air pressure/gas expansion hitting the bayonet as the bullet leaves the barrel.

That seems reasonable, but doesn't account for the POI shift that is found on many rifles when a suppressor, or a barrel mounted bipod is mounted or removed. No blade there, for gas to hit exiting the muzzle.

its the size & weight of the device, changing how the barrel vibrates. ANY thing that changes the way the barrel vibrates can produce a change in the POI.

Match shooters know that using a tight sling hold will change the POI, and strive to make their tight sling shooting as repeatable as possible.

Simply resting the barrel (not the stock) on a tree limb for support will change the POI. The amount of change may or may not be drastic enough to affect your shooting, but there's almost always a change.

[davidsog]

Harmonics....

[Double Naught Spy]

The barrel harmonics can change. I think the weight of the bayonet has a definite impact.

Usually when you point something heavy on the end of your barrel, the POI tends to be lower. If it was just harmonics, POI shift could be in any direction depending on the harmonic change.

However, the weight of the bayonet, like adding a suppressor, causes barrel droop, hence why the shots will normally be lower when you add a weight to the end of the barrel.

[Don Fischer]

I haven't a clue what that answer is but I suspect anything you hang on the end of the barrel will have an effect. In the military they are not installed unless it's gonna be close contact, very close. In that case I doubt the thing will effect the accuracy enough to make a difference.

In hand to hand contact, a moa rifle is no advantage!

[davidsog]

However, the weight of the bayonet, like adding a suppressor, causes barrel droop, hence why the shots will normally be lower when you add a weight to the end of the barrel.

It is primarily from harmonics and not "droop" of the barrel from adding weight.

Adding weight changes the moment (torque) altering the vibrational characteristics of the barrel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdwN5qlWMVA

[davidsog]

In the military they are not installed unless it's gonna be close contact, very close. In that case I doubt the thing will effect the accuracy enough to make a difference.

Exactly. Suppressors are a close range accessory. Yes, we could suppress M24's and even shot a suppressed M82 ONCE...and I stress ONCE.

Even a sniper rifle in a suppressed configuration is a close range weapon system.

[BeeShooter]

I duck taped a kitchen knife to my 22 and didn't see difference in POI. I guess I'll try duck tapping 2 kitchen knives to it and test later.

[aarondhgraham]

I shoot a friends Polish M44 Nagant quite often,,,
It's not the most precise shooter in any case.

But the groups do get quite larger with the bayonet extended.

I have another buddy with a Chinese SKS,,,
He says if you extend the bayonet on that rifle,,,
You are very fortunate indeed if you can hit the ground.

Just saying,,,

Aarond

.

[emcon5]

In the military they are not installed unless it's gonna be close contact, very close.

Depends on the military. If you are talking about Mosin Nagants used by the Soviet Union in WW2, you are wrong.

They had it attached all the time, they didn't even issue scabbards.

[4V50 Gary]

What Mobuck says. It changes the harmonics; especially if there's looseness between the bayonet and the mount.

[T. O'Heir]

"...don't think it has anything to do with where the bayonet is mounted..." It's absolutely due to where the weight is. Putting the bayonet on an original M-16 actually bent the barrels with the weight.
"...air pressure/gas expansion hitting the bayonet..." There's not enough resistance from the mass a knife blade to do any such thing.
"...Suppressors are a close range accessory..." Suppressors are not a normal issue thing at all. You cannot suppress supersonic ammo.