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Old March 18, 2020, 03:38 PM   #26
HiBC
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I have no problem with fokls buyng guns or ammo

Just as I have no problem with folks buying food or toilet paper.

There is a virus going around.OK.

Do I need an extra 1000 rounds of 9mm to defend my 4 rolls of toilet paper?

I don't understand how my fellow citizens are so easily manipulated nto a hysterical panic.

We aren't pooping more,or eating more food,or shootng more.

I haven't bothered to go to the LGS. The "enough" I had two months ago s still enough.

We are our own worst enemy.


I'm not giving up any guns,but it just does not occur to me I can protect myself from a virus with more ammo.

Its like folks are choosing to live inside some bad "B" movie.

We could just deal with the real,live problems of today

Last edited by HiBC; March 18, 2020 at 03:46 PM.
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Old March 18, 2020, 04:12 PM   #27
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It is pointless to talk facts. This epidemic is nothing compared to the seasonal flu, but people can't understand it. They can't tell the difference between 600,000,000 and 200,000, or between coronivirus and the black plague. They are in full-throttle monkey mode.

I was putting off buying paper towels. I should have bought them several days back. Yesterday, I decided to see what was available. Knowing there might be issues, I looked online in order to avoid driving.

On Amazon and Ebay, the scum of the earth are selling paper towels for over $20 per roll. Don't ever try to tell me Americans are good people. The profiteers are everywhere, and the hoarders are just as bad. We don't pull together in a crisis. We throw each other under the bus. I went through it after Hurricane Andrew, and nothing has change.

I went to the Office Depot site, and I found a 12-roll package of paper towels for sale. I bought it online, and then I drove to the store when I was good and ready. I only need 6 rolls, but I couldn't get a smaller package. They hid it in the back until I got there.

Thank God I had plenty of toilet paper before the insanity started.

I tried to buy 200 pounds of match .308 yesterday, and today, the vendor called me and said I could only have 100. I told them to keep it. I'm not buying match .308 to shoot my neighbors. I just wanted to shoot my LR308 with decent ammunition. You would think resellers would draw a distinction between neighbor-shooting ammo and luxury target ammo.

On the plus side, people say reloading supplies are not scarce. I bought 500 10mm shells today for the regular price.

Apart from a temporary shortage of things like toilet paper, eggs, and hand sanitizer, things here are not bad. I still eat whatever I want. I have gas and diesel. Bottled water, which I drink because of kidney stones, is still available if you look. I can't imagine what it's like living in a place like New York or Miami, where people treat each other like dirt in the best of times.

Grocery stores will be stocked again in a week or two, but the damage our hysterical response is doing to the economy may take years to undo. The citizenry is supporting its own destruction because the press has filled them with irrational fear, and politicians are dancing to the press's tune. It's amazing to see how easy it is to get America to commit suicide. We are not fit for the WWII generation to spit on.

Any LGS that raises prices should be demolished with a bulldozer. The 2A crowd doesn't need that kind of stink among us.
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Old March 18, 2020, 05:09 PM   #28
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Very well said, agree with you 100%.
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Old March 18, 2020, 05:10 PM   #29
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SGAmmo:

"Due to overwhelming order volume over the past week we are not currently accepting new orders. We are currently 5 to 7 days behind on filling orders and the priority is going to be given to filling existing orders. We will begin to restore inventory later this week once we have a handle on shipping all orders that have been placed so far. In order to aid us in providing faster service, please do not email to ask when your order will ship unless you need to cancel or change the address. UPS will email tracking info the day the order ships and we are working as fast as we possibly can to fill your orders. We have inventory allocated to fill all existing orders, if you have an order in it will be filled."
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Old March 18, 2020, 05:20 PM   #30
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I ordered from Palmetto State, and they are talking 14 to 21 days' delay. I don't care. I'm not a panic hoarder! It's unfortunate, but at least they're filling orders.

Starline Brass doesn't mention a delay. Guess I'll be up to my butt in 10mm soon.

I just don't get the panickers. If, for some completely unimaginable reason, I had to use a gun against other people because of coronavirus, I feel sure one or two magazines would be sufficient. If your situation calls for 5,000 rounds, you're going to die, plain and simple. I'll bet no single individual in history has ever had to shoot 5,000 rounds and then survived.

I hope there are a lot of first-time buyers in the mix. Every former gun-hater who buys a gun is on the road to redemption.
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Old March 18, 2020, 05:27 PM   #31
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I ordered from Palmetto State, and they are talking 14 to 21 days' delay.
So what your saying is they are completely unaffected by all this.
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Old March 18, 2020, 06:59 PM   #32
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We are not fit for the WWII generation to spit on.
Not long before the war started Americans like Henry Ford, Joe Kennedy, and Charles Lindberg were openly supporting Hitler. People scammed during the war, and we had a segregated military. Yet we did come together and win.

This will require the same level of resolve. I'm not giving up on us yet.
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Old March 18, 2020, 08:56 PM   #33
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The people I most worry about are the ignorant ones with curious kids that think they can throw a loaded gun in their dresser drawer and hope they never have to use it... if you buy a gun you have a responsibility to secure it and lean to use it. Hard to do when you have to shelter in place....
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Old March 18, 2020, 09:05 PM   #34
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I've been looking for Hodgdon Hybrid and StaBal6.5 locally. Neither of thos powders to be found. Went prairie dog shooting today and on the way home stopped at Cabelas in Sidney, Nebraska. They had both of them. The lady that took my money said a lot of people have been buying reloading supplies. The store had maybe 5 customers, but it was 3 pm on Wednesday and Sidney isn'texactly a metropolis. Scheels and Sportsman's Warehouse have quit taking orders online. This is crazy.
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Old March 19, 2020, 12:33 PM   #35
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Talked to my brother in Franklin, TN today - gun stores are out of guns and low on ammo.

I wonder how many anti-gun soccer mom types are now gun owners because the you-know-what might very well hit the fan..............
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Old March 19, 2020, 01:43 PM   #36
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This was posted this morning from one of the more popular gun shops in my area;

We will be open today 11-6
There will be a 10 person limit inside the store.
Yesterday PICS checks were taking over an hour to process. We had people waiting in the parking lot for 4 hours that did not make it into the store. We already have 5 cars in the parking lot this morning at 7:00AM. Hopefully the checks will go faster today.
We are not taking any reservations on anything in the store at this time. We still have piles of home defense shotguns in stock. Decent selection of AR's and we still have tons of handguns. We are completely out of 9mm ammo. We have a small amount that is supposed to come in tomorrow afternoon. We received in yesterday 2,000 boxes of Hornady 223 55gr FMJ $8.99 20rd box. There will be a 5 box limit per person.
Please be patient if you plan on coming in. We are trying to make everything as smooth as we can.
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Old March 19, 2020, 03:45 PM   #37
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Once again,I have nothing against people buying guns and ammo.

My wild imagination is not seeing a scenario today,in the midst of this epidemic,
that makes a gun and some ammo more necessary than it was 4 months ago.

The supply chain of food,toilet paper,and everything else was adequate 4 months ago.
Its adequate to supply what we need.

Its not adequate to supply our fears. It never will be.

Reacting to our fears makes shortages self fulfilling.

There is nothing about a 75 year old person dying a lung disease that I can solve with a 9mm

I'm not going to shoot anyone over a roll of toilet paper.

What is it you fear? I just don't understand.
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Old March 19, 2020, 05:18 PM   #38
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It's not fear, it's preparation.

The concern is the third or fourth order effect that results in a social order disruption. Think LA riots, Detroit riots, 77 Northeast blackout, etc. We as a society have simply permitted far to many predators to continue to live among us. These legal system recycles present an existential threat when coupled with a disruption in social order.
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Old March 19, 2020, 06:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
It's not fear, it's preparation.

The concern is the third or fourth order effect that results in a social order disruption. Think LA riots, Detroit riots, 77 Northeast blackout, etc. We as a society have simply permitted far to many predators to continue to live among us. These legal system recycles present an existential threat when coupled with a disruption in social order.
We disagree. Those who believe in being prepared were prepared 4 month ago

Those panic buying today are afraid.

Overwhelm the system? Collapsing society? Look up Cloward-Piven and ponder many of our policies, going back to Teddy Kennedy. There as been a plan to overwhelm the system and collapse society since the 60's,and it has been alive and well with some candidates. What else is new?

All the things you mention (LA riots,etc)...are part of my history. I'm Korean War baby..

What did I miss?

Yes,it good to be armed .I've been armed over 50 yrs.

So? Right now,in this moment,what problem can I solve with a gun?
Nobody needs shooting. Sure,I can fear I might be home invaded...but I am already prepared for that.I was a long time ago.
Right now,in this moment,our Governor declared a lot of folks suddenly don't have an income.

Last time I went shopping I got a couple pounds of hamburger,a few links of sausage,a couple dozen tortillas,etc Just what I'll consume easily.

Sure,I have a dozen boxes of pasta and a few cans of spam,some dry beans set back, I can get by a while.

I'm more concerned about the pantrieso f folks I care abut than how many thousand rounds of ammo I have.

If I have a few hundred dollars or more to buy a gun and a thousand rounds...

I'm more likely to get in touch with the folks who have served me food and drink, and added something to my day who are now out of work. Handing them $100 is worth more to me than anything at the LGS.

Give,and help keep the kids fed. That's not about something in your fears,maybe someday. Its real,today.

Last edited by HiBC; March 19, 2020 at 07:07 PM.
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Old March 19, 2020, 07:22 PM   #40
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I think the bun buying panic is because many cities like Philadelphia have let it be known that they were not going to jail criminals for "minor" things like burglary, car theft, prostitution, and other things because of the virus scare and were going to let them run free and arrest them when things are better. I can see why they are concerned as the crooks know what is going on and will feel free to break the law.
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Old March 19, 2020, 08:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiBC View Post
Once again,I have nothing against people buying guns and ammo.

My wild imagination is not seeing a scenario today,in the midst of this epidemic,
that makes a gun and some ammo more necessary than it was 4 months ago.

The supply chain of food,toilet paper,and everything else was adequate 4 months ago.
Its adequate to supply what we need.

Its not adequate to supply our fears. It never will be.

Reacting to our fears makes shortages self fulfilling.

There is nothing about a 75 year old person dying a lung disease that I can solve with a 9mm

I'm not going to shoot anyone over a roll of toilet paper.

What is it you fear? I just don't understand.
I think the idea is that we are 9 missed meals away from anarchy, and something like 3 weeks away from cannibalism if food is not available. The veneer of civilization can be rather thin in the best of times; it drops away quickly when masses are starving.

Bottom line, we have built a complex, intertwined, global society. We don't know what will happen when it screeches to a halt, but I suspect the stress points will be tested and found lacking, perhaps catastrophically.
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Old March 19, 2020, 08:35 PM   #42
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I wouldn't start predicting imminent anarchy, we have a real leadership team in the Executive Branch that's making tangible progress and has previous-detractors pulling in the same direction.
Navy hospital ships to the hardest hit areas, logistics companies helping to ensure basic needs are getting delivered, etc, etc.

We'll make it, there may be some hot spots here and there but having worked with FEMA, Defense and other agencies in crises, we'll get there.
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Old March 19, 2020, 08:46 PM   #43
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I went to my local BiMart store yesterday to buy a fishing license. These are sold at the gun counter. There were 3 guys waiting to hear back from the state for approval to buy their gun. The hand gun display case was 3/4's full and the had plenty of rifles and shotguns. However all the cheap ammo was gone but there was plenty of the more expensive stuff available. So maybe it's not quite as crazy here. I can't say the same for grocery stores...

Tony
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Old March 19, 2020, 08:49 PM   #44
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TXAZ, I agree with you, but.

There will be some very difficult areas in high crime high density areas. This stimulus package will put some businesses out of business. 5 weeks of pay with no cash flow will cripple many small businesses. I have three businesses, but no employees, and all three are down significantly because my clients can't work, even though I technically can.

The team has done a good job, but I do worry about the "next time" consequences. I worry about the HS seniors who have lost their shot at college or pro sports opportunities because they can't play, my son included.

I do think, and hope, there will be a new normal that emerges in 30 days. One where we do more homeschooling, more telecommuting, less driving, but spend more time in quality community relationships. We need to watch out for our neighbors more, spend less time exchanging personal relationships for social media. I made the decision to close my shop/office 4 years ago and let my employees go and I did exactly those things. I make less, but I am happier, more involved. I am the Head Coach of a HS trap team and I photograph 4 of the HS varsity teams. I spend time as the trainer for 2 church security teams, volunteer as an adversary for the Sheriff's office, and teach some other things as well. We care for 4 aging parents with health issues as well. All things I could not have done it I maintained the 50 to 60 hours a week working in and running my company. The shift has made me a better, more empathetic person and a better citizen. I hope many will find a similar path as a result of this.
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Old March 19, 2020, 09:01 PM   #45
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In California a lot of counties are under shelter in place orders. Some counties still had people crowding into flea markets. The most populous counties with shelter in place are unable to go to a non essential place like a gun shop and with the 10 day wait here even if you could find a gun to buy it's hard to know if you could pick up your gun after the waiting period. California gun laws are working as intended
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Old March 19, 2020, 09:17 PM   #46
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According to an article I just read, all CA is now in lockdown.
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Old March 19, 2020, 11:45 PM   #47
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I accept that I don't now enough about disease transmission to have a strong position abut this shutdown stuff.

A lot of individuals are taking a big hit. The balance is,we aren't in as bad shape as Italy. I don't know.

One thing to keep in mind is these shut downs and shelter in place declarations are (appropriately) local control. They are not Federal. Its a mayor or Governor that puts them in place.
If the National Guard gets called up,,the Governor does it.

I don't call that good,bad,or indifferent,but that is who is accountable.
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Old March 20, 2020, 09:09 AM   #48
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We are ALL Prepers now.

Lots of food and ammo.

But in stores.... not so much.
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Old March 20, 2020, 09:37 AM   #49
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I was actually expecting riots after the election, while some argue that rioting after an election is a civil right, it sure makes going to the store inconvenient with the roads blocked and trash can fires. So I was already stocked up on dry goods.
I keep ammunition for recreational purposes. If I find myself desperately needing more that one magazine full of ammunition... I’m either handling the situation way wrong, or I’m simply in over my head... either way I’m done. Lol
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Old March 20, 2020, 11:12 AM   #50
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I read a good article in The NY Times about my people panic buy, written by a psychologist. Maybe I am summarizing incorrectly but I took away from it “lots of people are not too bright, they are worried and feel out of control. They learn “everyone” is buying TP so they run out and buy a shopping cart full. Now they feel better because they did something to prepare.” That explains that stupid behavior to my satisfaction.

As stated well above, I worry about people with no training buying firearms (especially pistols) with no training, experience, or even good self education about the gun safety rules we all have been practicing since we were kids under our parent’s wing.

While people may be buying like crazy now, I hope they are buying quality firearms as I’ll be happy to buy their stuff for pennies on the dollar when this passes, probably in a few months.

I’m not any kind of concealed carry guy, but I live in a great neighborhood and know all my neighbors by name. I took the neighbors pheasant hunting last season as I have a dog and theirs is a sweet old fella to old to walk a quarter mile. Lots of us have keys to each other’s houses for when plants need watered or pets need fed during vacations.

That said, I used to reload extensively. When I eased back, I kept a single stage press, 30-06 dies, .357 dies and .308 dies and a few powders, lots of bullets and primers. I don’t shoot as much as I used to, but there is enough material to make over 500 of something that goes substantially “boom”.

It’s hard for me to see a great sale on quality .22 ammunition, let alone when boutique .22 ammo can be bought for the price of CCI SV. I seem to have a couple ammo cans of .22 LR and that in my mind is squirrel or rabbit stew for several lifetimes. In a pinch, I can enjoy target shooting this summer at the range.

I’m remembering my grandmother. When I was a little boy, I was curious about the vaccination mark on her upper arm. She was 20 years old during the influenza outbreak in 1919 and the Polio epidemic. I still remember her crying as she told me that vaccinations were a gift from God and that Jonas Sauk was a saint and a hero and when I got my vaccinations I should be brave and proud I could get them because she said EVERYBODY knew about five people who had died from the flu and every parent prayed every night that their child would not get polio.

My grandfather was in France in WWI and saw some gas. They saw the Influenza, polio, the Great Depression and WWII. She kept a big coffee can of buttons collected from old clothes before they were used as rags, and baby food jars full of old nuts and bolts from appliances that could not be repaired. Food wasn’t to be wasted at her house, you ate all on your plate.

I regret we have some tough times ahead, but we might come out the better for it. Maybe pull together and think more of our neighbors and a little less of our selves.

Along that line, if anyone doubts our situation, I have a pal thats 50 years old in great shape. He got the flu on a business trip. 8 days in the hospital, 3 in intensive care. It’s not a joke.

Think of yourself as a carrier, not as the one getting the virus. Think of yourself passing it along, and think that for every 20 people you pass it to, one WILL die. That’s a 5% mortality rate and that’s what it was in 1919.

Despite people telling that all is fine and there are plenty of medical supplies, that’s not true. There is AT LEAST a distribution problem- hospitals need supplies yesterday and can’t wait a week or two for delivery. So please, stay home, goof off and don’t go out and get everyone you meet sick... once our population has time to build up our natural immunity and get new vaccinations, the explosive initial growth can overwhelm our health care system as happened in Italy.

On a lighter note... I know how to wipe my butt with a bit of the Sears catalog or heaven forbid, a leaf.. so I bought a little extra cooking oil, sugar, flour and eggs. Got plenty of salt, pepper and spices... three pounds of gunpowder and couple of boxes of primers... what else would I really need? I am gonna bake cookies today.

Oh yeah, fishing gear. This might be a good time to tie some flys.
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