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Old September 30, 2017, 06:49 PM   #1
cslinger
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Why I Chose My Gun (HK P2000 V3) What Choice Should You Make?

So I was sitting around the other day musing as I am to do from time to time and I got to thinking about all the people who ask me for advice regarding firearm choices. I then got to thinking about how many folks come to forums as new shooters/potential shooters to ask for advice.

We typically bombard them with a myriad of choices most likely throwing them into analysis paralysis. So I started thinking it might make sense to simply post why I personally chose "my gun" if you will.

You see, in my opinion there are so few bad choices that one can make as far as firearms go and the choices that are made really come down to our various personal preferences. Certainly there are BAD guns like a POS Jennings or some such but beyond those there are really no bad choices. Semi auto, revolver, small, large, double stack, single stack etc. etc. None of those are bad choices.

At any rate I figured it would be cool to start a thread simply pointing out why we chose what we did for our personal guns and that those personal insights might help more then simply saying buy this or that.

So I will start. Now keep in mind these are my personal opinions and choices for ME. They are not the only choice and they certainly are not the BEST choice for everybody. That is the point of this exercise, to explain your personal choices to add to the data and education of others making their own choices.

My personal defensive gun of choice for quite some time is the HK P2000. Not only is it the DA/SA variant but it is the .40S&W variant as well. Crazy I know. I have a 9mm version as well but the .40's are my go to guns.

So why the hell would I choose this gun?



1-AMBI PADDLE MAG RELEASE - I have fairly small hands and although many hate the paddle mag release I love them. I am able to use my trigger or middle finger to quickly and easily drop a mag and just generally like having ambi controls on a firearm even though I am right handed, I like the redundancy. I also find the paddle mag releases resist accidental mag releases better then button releases.

2-DA/SA WITH A REAR DECOCKER - Striker fired pistols are the way forward. They are easier to learn, simpler to make and damn good guns. For myself personally though, I find that I both like the heavy double action first pull and the better quality subsequent single action pulls vs. a striker. In my world administrative gun handling is way more likely then gun fighting.....thank God may it ever be so. and I like the additional safety of that heavy deliberate first trigger pull. I also very much like the rear mounted decocker location on the P2000.

3-THE CONTROLS - As I said I like ambi controls even being a right handed person. I like the redundancy. The slide lock/release levers on the P2000 are perfect for me. They are just the right size for my use as either a slide lock or slide release. Many prefer more minimalist controls and they are not wrong. I however prefer a more positive slide lock and release.

4-STEEL SIGHTS AND PARTS - I like when a gun comes from the factory with good quality steel sights as well as an easy to find night sight option. I also like steel guide rods etc. These are preferences, as polymer has certainly shown to be more then up to the task.

5-MINIMALISTIC MOUNTING RAIL - I like the ability to mount a light but don't generally like the full Picatinny cheese grater setup. For this reason I like the rails on the P2000's and Glocks

6-MAG WELL INDENTS - I like being able to get a positive grip on a magazine to tear it out if necessary. The little indents do a marvelous job at this.

7-CALIBER - First and foremost if you are a new shooter DO NOT STRESS OVER CALIBER, HELL DON'T EVEN ASK WHAT CALIBER SHOULD YOU BUY. Its a can of worms and the reality is this. ANY MARTIAL CALIBER (9MM, .40S&W, .45ACP, .357SIG, .38 SPECIAL, .357 MAGNUM ETC. ETC.) is perfectly adequate for self defense with the proper bullet/cartridge choice. Do they all do something better and worse then each other....YES. Is it in the statistical minutiae...YES.

So why did I choose .40S&W, especially when its on its way out. I generally like the penetration characteristics of the round and the fact it's carrying more weight. Its also still the generally used round around me and has a good track record on the streets. Mostly I just like it. (I also carry 9mm, .45, .38 etc.) It doesn't matter, but I wanted to point out why I chose what I did.

8-HK'S HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT FINISH / FIT AND FINISH - I think the finish on HK's guns is excellent durable as hell. I also think the fit and finish inside and out is spectacular. I appreciate the machine work, the cuts, the feel, the attention to detail in the metal and polymer work. Does any of that make it a better weapon.....nope, but I appreciate it.

9-THE GRIP/SIZE OF THE GUN - What is more personal then how a gun feels in your hand. The Glock 19 is arguably the BEST overall option in a self defense firearm today. Has been for a long time. For me personally I wanted a Glock 19/23 sized gun but with a hammer and a grip that fit my human hands. The P2000 damn near feels like a single stack in the hand, while being almost identical to a Glock 19/23 in size. I just find the gun extremely comfortable to shoot and carry. I also appreciate the stippling on the front and back but flat on the sides, as this makes carry without an under garment much easier for me.

10-MAGAZINES/PARTS/CAPACITY - All HK parts are in house and the QC is generally excellent. I have always liked steel magazines more then polymer or polymer coated as they are thinner.

As for capacity I am happy with anything 10 rounds or over. Don't listen to somebody who tells you if you carry a high capacity gun you cannot shoot and also don't listen to those who say you cannot possibly get by with 5 or 6 rounds. You make your own personal risk evaluation, weighing in factors of weight, size control etc. etc. and you make an educated decision. For me its 10+ rounds. Doesn't make you wrong if you carry 6 for sure in a revolver on 19+1 in your full size wonder nine.

11- TRACK RECORD - The HK P2000 has seen service with several law enforcement entities and while this should never be your only factor in making a firearm choice it does provide a level of testing that guns not adopted by law enforcement or the military will not have.

So that is why I have two of the same gun setup for my bedside and carry roles. The muscle memory is the same for both shooting one is practice for both and parts interchange with both. In today's high speed Glock, 9mm world they are an anachronism and many folks would probably tell me I am completely wrong in my thinking......but these are my personal choices and I have been very happy with them.

Also keep in mind I have a ton of guns and shooting experience so my choices come from lots of trial and error.

Also keep in mind that by shooting experience I mean hobbiest. I am not a LEOGUNFIGHTERSPECOPSSEALTEAMGSG9 anything. I am not even part of the militant arm of the girl scouts. I have NO desires, or fantasies about ever having to use violence on anything. So keep that in mind and never take what I say as training or fighting education.

As always, take care and shoot safe. I hope that any one of my personal observations on my gun of choice might drive some though in somebody else and be a data point for or against a feature they are considering.

Chris
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Old October 1, 2017, 08:18 AM   #2
GarandTd
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Chris, excellent thread idea and post. I think this could become a wonderful resource.
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Old October 1, 2017, 10:42 AM   #3
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Well, you've told people what features you like and, IMhO, more importantly, you've explained why you like them. And you do NOT insist that you are right and everyone else should think the way you do. I really liked the point you make about there being very few BAD choices out their.

I think it's a good post!
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Old October 1, 2017, 04:08 PM   #4
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Wow... well done

I would never have guessed you were a girl.
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Old October 1, 2017, 04:33 PM   #5
cslinger
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Huh? I might have girly sized hands but other then that I pee standing up and for distance and accuracy like most men. . I am all guy.
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Old October 1, 2017, 05:06 PM   #6
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Very very sorry. You said you wern't part of a militant arm of the Girl Scouts. Hence my dumb thought process. It would have been cool if you were a girl though.. Hahahahahaha
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Old October 1, 2017, 06:01 PM   #7
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I'll take the de-caffeinated coffee, with a little cream, please.
(some brands are just as tasty as the real thing)

A while back I went with the Beretta 92 and Cx4 Storm Pistol
Carbine Combo. Interchangeable mags was the major selling
point. I don't think I analyzed it quite as deeply as you may have.
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Old October 3, 2017, 05:38 AM   #8
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Excellent post, my own HK P2000 and P30 (both are 9mm & both are V3 trigger variants) just flat out work beautifully for me as range & carry guns, I own many different kinds of handguns, trust me on this!

P.S. cslinger - I once had a USP40 that I regretted trading away...until I got the HK45!
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Old October 3, 2017, 10:41 AM   #9
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Good Post. We all buy the guns we think are the best, or in some situations what we can afford. Then some gun self appointed know-it-All comes along and puts down what we buy. As far as I am concerned it's none of their business what we like or what we buy.
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Old October 3, 2017, 02:16 PM   #10
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I occasionally advise the OPs of "which gun" threads to pay attention to the "why" more than the "what" so that they can think about what features suit them best and make a selection based more on their own needs. Good example of that type of thinking,
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Old October 3, 2017, 03:24 PM   #11
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Cslinger,
Great post! I think I can follow your lead and explain my last purchase.
First i will tell you that I have carried and owned revolvers for most of my life. At this time in my life I wanted to try 3 gun sports and my revolvers would put me at a distinct disadvantage in this sport so I decided I needed a semi-auto pistol. I have owned and been disappointed by two auto-loaders before and don't trust them. With that in mind I decided that an all steel gun would provide weight to reduce recoil and the wear resistance that I would need for the long term practice and competition. I wanted a DA/SA gun with at least 15 round capacity. I wanted a gun with enough power to attack the falling plates and the dueling trees. I needed accuracy and reliability. I looked at the different calibers being used at the competitions and asked about the guns being used and what the competitors would change if they could. There were a few 45 ACPs, a few more 40s, a lot of 9mms and a couple of 10mm in use. Nearly all makes were represented and some were made purely for competition. Guns above my price range were quickly eliminated and I was left with the standard Colt, S&W, HK, CZs and others. I looked at the on-line reviews and remembered my experience with Colt and my dislikes of S&W (for political reasons) and found pros and cons for every gun except the CZ. The only cons on the CZ concerned hot loads and failure to cycle the hot loads but was fixed by installing stronger springs. Next I started looking at guns available to me locally. I handled a few, including Sigs, which have the reputation for superb accuracy but they were expensive and the ones I handled were not DA/SA guns. I found a local dealer that had some Czs so I took a trip to see him. (5 minutes in the car)
I walked in and was asked what I was looking for. I explained that I wanted a full size all steel gun for use in 3 gun. We talked and he said that he had a couple that would do the job. I looked them over and said that I needed to do some checking around. I looked at the reputation of the guns and the CZ is rated second only to the Sig and only slightly. I was pretty sure at this point that I was going to get the CZ but I hadn't handled one yet. I went back to the store and the owner remembered me. I asked if I could handle the guns he had recommended and he happily paced the guns on the counter. I picked up the first one, cleared it, and put it in my hand. It felt pretty much like most of the auto-loaders and it would fire high if I held it like I do my revolvers. The next one was similar and then I picked up the CZ75B. It felt very close to my revolvers. The barrel pointed nearly level when held in the fire position and it had no "decocker" but an exposed hammer that you could lower on a loaded chamber. It did have a safety that only worked with the hammer cocked. It came with two 16 round mags and the factory cleaning tools. I asked if I could dry fire the gun and he assured me it would be fine. I rechecked that it was still unloaded (I always clear a gun before I do anything else but I was going to pull the trigger so I rechecked) The double action pull was as smooth as soft butter and lighter than my revolver. This gun felt like I had had it for years. We discussed the price and two more magazines. I put the gun back into the box and told him to order the extra mags. The gun was right at $700 and the two extra mags cost $15 each. He did the paperwork and I walked out with the gun. My first trip to the range was a couple of days later and the gun had been field stripped, cleaned and lubed. At 30 feet I put 15 rounds into a group the size of a 50 cent piece that was left two inches and about 3/4 inch high. I did not adjust the sights because I had no idea what the actual load that I would settle on would do.
The gun is all steel (except for the recoil spring guide rod), holds 16+1 and is so far very accurate even with factory ammo. Rifling twist is 1 in 10 which is very fast for a pistol but everything I have fired in it has been very good. I did make some measurements of the guide rod and draw it up in my cad program so I can make a new one if necessary from steel.
Oh, I forgot to mention that the gun store has a full replacement guarantee from his distributor. If the gun fails for any reason I just take it back to the store and get a new one. (I can choose to have it repaired)
All in all it has turned out to be a great gun for my purpose. I am working up a load for it and have settled on a 124 grain HP with TiteGroup powder. I have had good results in powder ranges from 4.1 to 4.4 grains and am getting close to finalizing the load. Recoil is not a problem and I can easily stay on target for follow up shots.
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Old October 3, 2017, 07:04 PM   #12
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ShootistPRS, good write up on your path to CZ. A picture would be the icing on the cake.
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Old October 4, 2017, 11:15 AM   #13
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GarandTd,
I am 67 and although I am very computer literate I don't own a camera or even a phone with a camera (my phone plugs into the wall). The gun is just a few months old and I am getting close to having a good load for it. I could grab a picture off the net like this one.
Posting it might be a copyright violation so I'll just provide the link above.
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Old October 4, 2017, 08:17 PM   #14
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Why did I choose what I did? Hmmm . . . I now have three carry pistols, and I have a few constants:
1. No thumb safety -- I carried a 1911 for a few years, and that was fine. Fortunately, I never had the misfortune of forgetting to swipe off the thumb safety during a violent encounter. Once I decided to make the grand leap to the Dark Side of Polymer Pistols, I decided that I didn't want dissimilar pistols for carry. All of mine are point-and-shoot variety. I'd be fine with a grip safety, as it doesn't require any additional motions.

2. Caliber -- I don't want a caliber war here, but I stick with pretty traditional calibers: .38 Spl., 9mm and .45. That's where I have some confidence in both the Indian and the arrow.

3. Versatility -- I have neither the budget nor the desire to own dozens and dozens of firearms that I rarely (if ever) shoot. I'd much rather have a handful of guns and shoot the living bejeebers out of it. So when I went looking for my first polymer pistol, it had to be suitable for CC, HD and the range. Enter the G19. When I went on the hunt for a pocket pistol, I went with the Ruger LCR in .357, so that I could also shoot .38s in it.

4. Aftermarket support -- Don't ask me why I look for this, because I never modify my guns beyond sights. Still, I guess I like knowing that if I need a widget, someone makes a widget for my pistol.
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Old October 8, 2017, 03:43 AM   #15
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My only real gripe with HK is the price. The ones that kind of interest me a little are, IMHO, insanely overpriced. My VP-70Z was, well, just strange. I want a P7, but the present guns have little interest for me. I prefer TDA all steel guns. I just like the heft and feel of an all steel or at least an alloy frame. I have some polymer guns, but they are, to be honest, mostly just toys. My go to guns are all steel and didn't cost much well used, but not abused.
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Old October 8, 2017, 03:51 AM   #16
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cslinger, very well written, excellent presentation, thank you.
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Old October 9, 2017, 04:08 PM   #17
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You definitely made your points.Thanks for sharing!
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Old October 17, 2017, 08:30 PM   #18
GarandTd
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Why I chose the SAR K2P 9mm

1. DA/SA hammer fired. I like the options that come with this style of action. Cocked and locked, light single action, and heavy double action. There's no unanswered questions with the position of the hammer.

2. Adjustable metal sights. Different rounds hit in different places. I like being able to dial in the sights for whatever I'm shooting. Being metal means less likely hood of damaging them.

3. Front slide serrations. With the slide riding in the frame on this pistol, I figured the extra slide serrations would give me more to grip when racking the slide.

4. Accessory rail. In case I want to mount something.

5. The grip. This pistol is very comfortable in my hand. It just feels good.

6. The barrel and guide rod are stainless....or chromed. I'm a little unclear on this one because of the minimalist description from EAA, but I like the feature either way.

7. Ambidextrous safety. I'm right handed, but appreciate this feature.

8. Reversible mag release. Again, I'm right handed, but appreciate the option.

9. Mecgar Cz75b magazines are compatible and readily available. Capacity is also a +. 16+1 in the factory mag, 17+1 and 19+1 in the compatible CZ mags.

10. Caliber. 9mm. Economical, effective, available.

11. Price. It was inexpensive(not cheap).

This was my 1st pistol. My technique for selecting it would probably make many enthusiasts throw up a little in their mouth. I started with the cheapest of the cheap and researched my way up the price ladder until I found the features I wanted at a price I could live with. There were a couple other candidates around the same price point of the SAR, but the K2P became kind of an obsession. Once I got in my hand, I knew I had to have it and the rest is history. It's been a great pistol and I have no intentions of ever parting with it. I would recommend it to anyone.

Above were the pros. In the interest of full disclosure, I'll list a couple cons.
1. It's an import with only a 1 year warranty. If parts are needed, who knows what that will be like.
2. Only came with one magazine.
3. The sites are dovetailed into the slide, but not standard(if there is such a thing). Replacement would require some trial and error and maybe some hand fitting.
4. Holsters are few and far between.
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Old October 18, 2017, 11:26 AM   #19
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Again, very nicely done!

I'll give'r a go.

I had been away from shooting for quite awhile and when I was shooting back then I was a revolver fan.

Well our neighborhood is changing and thinks are getting rougher so I decided to rearm. Discussed it with the wife who's never fired a shot and she stated she would prefer a semi-auto over a revolver.

So having no clue as to what to look for or which to get I started coming to the forums and reading and then asking questions. As cslinger suggested I was inundated with responses of people preferences w/o any of the WHY's.

I had a very good idea that I wanted a 9mm in a full size metal frame as the extra size and weight would assist in learning the gun, be easy to control and the weight would help reduce the felt recoil for my non-shooting wife.

So I started looking in the shops and looking in the auctions until I found a very nice example of a Taurus PT92C. I also knew that the PT92 is or was an almost exact copy of the Beretta. Having been made in Beretta's old plant with Beretta old machines and tooling/drawings. Besides the fact tat the gun was close by and the price was one that I couldn't say no.

Yes I was fully aware of the horror stories about Taurus but I pay little heed to horror stories as many are unfounded just as those that are founded in reasonable truth.. Besides for what I paid for this gun I already knew it would never be returned to Taurus for any reason. It would just simply be decommissioned for parts.

Next purchase was a Springfield XD Mod2 4.0 9mm and you will all have to ask the wife why She bought this gun. It is her gun and she picked it out.
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Old October 21, 2017, 12:46 PM   #20
GarandTd
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Forgot to mention, the SAR K2P also does NOT have a magazine disconnect safety. I'm not against them for a range only gun or a plinker, but not for a defensive gun.
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Old October 23, 2017, 08:27 AM   #21
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Well done, and I'm glad you found the comvination that works for you!

My criteria are usually more simple.

1. Is it reliable
2. Do I shoot it well
3. Does it carry OK.

I tend to actually use a pair, one full/duty size to carry when I can and one compact when I need more concealment (similar to your theory), thre full size also pulls nightstand duty.

Currently it is s full size 1911 and a 3" compact 1911.

Also in the past were a Glock 17/26 pair and a Glock 30/21 pair.

My weekly range time is primarily the carry platform to keep muscle memory current.
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Old October 23, 2017, 12:46 PM   #22
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I'd of concised it to: buy a full-size 1911-A1 .45 ACP & a box of Federal 230 grain HST Tactical ammo.
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Old October 24, 2017, 11:23 AM   #23
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Ty Chris, great information
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