.425 Westley loadings

std7mag · June 30, 2013, 10:54 AM

I was wondering if any of you kind peoples would have any reloading data on the .425 Westley Richards.
Looking specifically for pressures, and velocities that someone may have hand loaded.
Have looked through several reloading manuals and find no listing for the cartridge.

Thanks!!

chiefr · June 30, 2013, 03:38 PM

The 425 WR cartridge is very old, proprietary, and rare; thus you may never find data. It is a very low pressure number on parr with the 44 Colt or such. I am unsure of what type of action your rifle is but I would base my load development on the strength of the action.
Many obscure Brit cartridges have varying diameters that can drive you crazy.
I would slug the bore. All 425 WR carts I have seen are with soft lead bullets.

SL1 · June 30, 2013, 04:14 PM

Did you search the Internet? There is a lot about the cartridge, but finding load data with Google is going to take some reading.

I found a little data here:

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail....95&LoadID=8387

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpa...?CaliberID=264

And, I see that QuickLOAD has the parameters for it. That program indicates a maximum pressure of 3,000 bar (43,511 psi). The QuickLOAD database lists 10 suitable bullets from 325 to 410 grains, including bullets from Hawk, Barnes and Woodleigh.

I checked my various Hornady and Barnes manuals, but did not find that cartridge covered in any of those, nor some really old manuals that I have lying around.

If you can find the 11mm (0.435") bullets, you might be able to get the manufacturer of those bullets to suggest some loads if you call or e-mail them.

SL1

**Mike Irwin** · July 1, 2013, 06:04 AM

There are a few loads in the various editions of Cartridges of the World, but the data has to be treated with a lot of respect because of its possible age.

There were apparently also a number of variations of the .425 over the years, specifically regarding case head diameter. The most common one uses the rebated head of .30-06 diameter.

"It is a very low pressure number on parr with the 44 Colt or such."

Say what?

The .44 Colt was a blackpowder revolver cartridge that had an operating pressure of roughly 18,000 PSI, if that high.

The .425 is a magnum rifle cartridge suitable for use on dangerous game that had an operating pressure of about 45,000 PSI.

std7mag · July 1, 2013, 06:12 AM

I don't have a Westley Richards rifle. Was thinking of doing some wildcatting with the .425 as the parent cartridge, instead of the ole .404 Jeffery.
Wanted to use the standard .470 bolt facing.

Thanks for all the information!!

chiefr · July 1, 2013, 07:26 AM

I thought the OP was posting of a Wesley Richards carbine round which is much different than the rifle cartridge. The carbine round is similar to a 45LC round while the rifle round is much more powerful with a rebated rim.

**Mike Irwin** · July 1, 2013, 08:02 AM

'I thought the OP was posting of a Wesley Richards carbine round which is much different than the rifle cartridge. The carbine round is similar to a 45LC round while the rifle round is much more powerful with a rebated rim.'

OK, that's a new one on me. Do tell about this round, as I've never heard of it before.

Any idea where it's written up?

Was it a military or a sporting round?

**Mike Irwin** · July 1, 2013, 08:09 AM

Wait...

Are you sure you're not thinking of the .425 Webley carbine round?

chiefr · July 1, 2013, 03:42 PM

Mike Irwin Wait...

Are you sure you're not thinking of the .425 Webley carbine round?
Today 08:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 425 I am refering to has a case that is 1.320" long or close to 1, 5/16" long. OAL of the representative cartridge is 1, 3/4". Lead bullets mikes right at .425. Rim diameter is .490. I have a representative cart which the HS says ELEY 425. This is not the WR express cartridge or the Webley pistol round. As you can see from its length, it is a rifle cartridge. The person I obtained the cartridge from is a well known antigue arms dealer and he said it was made for a Wesley Richards rifle. It was not popular and few were made.

**Mike Irwin** · July 1, 2013, 09:39 PM

OK, I think I know EXACTLY what cartridge you're talking about.

If you dig deeply in the internet, you'll find references to the cartridge you're talking about as being introduced by Webley in the 1890s.

Webley DID make a few cartridge rifles in addition to handguns and air rifles.

There are some claims on the net that the .425 Webley/Eley was made specifically for the Australian trade for shooting kangaroos.

Post 318 in this forum shows an example of the cartridge:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/ca...allery-32.html

chiefr · July 2, 2013, 03:59 PM

That is spot on Mike. The Brits also had their line of "Rook" cartridges I am sure you are familiar with. The 425 was overkill for birds.

std7mag · July 2, 2013, 05:05 PM

Hopefully I don't get in trouble for copy right.... buttttt....

According to the 13th edition of Cartridges of the World there was the .425 Westley Richards Magnum, and the .425 Westley Richards Semi-Rimmed Magnum.

The most common and successful version has a rebated rim.

Holding out hands, waiting for the cuffs....

**Mike Irwin** · July 2, 2013, 09:17 PM

You're referencing the material in the 13th edition, not reproducing it ver batim.

std7mag · July 4, 2013, 11:55 AM

Well, that's good to know!!

Anyways, it does mention that there were 2 different .425 Westley Richards cartridges made. The only pic they had was the rebated rim version.

**Mike Irwin** · July 5, 2013, 08:48 AM

Yes, there were, as I noted, variations of the .425 Wesley Richards Magnum, with the most common one being the rebated rim version for use in bolt action rifles.

The .425 WR gained a very good reputation for itself in Africa and Asia.

June 30, 2013, 10:54 AM	#1
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	.425 Westley loadings I was wondering if any of you kind peoples would have any reloading data on the .425 Westley Richards. Looking specifically for pressures, and velocities that someone may have hand loaded. Have looked through several reloading manuals and find no listing for the cartridge. Thanks!!

July 1, 2013, 06:04 AM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	There are a few loads in the various editions of Cartridges of the World, but the data has to be treated with a lot of respect because of its possible age. There were apparently also a number of variations of the .425 over the years, specifically regarding case head diameter. The most common one uses the rebated head of .30-06 diameter. "It is a very low pressure number on parr with the 44 Colt or such." Say what? The .44 Colt was a blackpowder revolver cartridge that had an operating pressure of roughly 18,000 PSI, if that high. The .425 is a magnum rifle cartridge suitable for use on dangerous game that had an operating pressure of about 45,000 PSI. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 1, 2013, 08:02 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	'I thought the OP was posting of a Wesley Richards carbine round which is much different than the rifle cartridge. The carbine round is similar to a 45LC round while the rifle round is much more powerful with a rebated rim.' OK, that's a new one on me. Do tell about this round, as I've never heard of it before. Any idea where it's written up? Was it a military or a sporting round? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 1, 2013, 08:09 AM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Wait... Are you sure you're not thinking of the .425 Webley carbine round? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 1, 2013, 09:39 PM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	OK, I think I know EXACTLY what cartridge you're talking about. If you dig deeply in the internet, you'll find references to the cartridge you're talking about as being introduced by Webley in the 1890s. Webley DID make a few cartridge rifles in addition to handguns and air rifles. There are some claims on the net that the .425 Webley/Eley was made specifically for the Australian trade for shooting kangaroos. Post 318 in this forum shows an example of the cartridge: http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/ca...allery-32.html __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 30, 2013, 03:38 PM	#2
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	The 425 WR cartridge is very old, proprietary, and rare; thus you may never find data. It is a very low pressure number on parr with the 44 Colt or such. I am unsure of what type of action your rifle is but I would base my load development on the strength of the action. Many obscure Brit cartridges have varying diameters that can drive you crazy. I would slug the bore. All 425 WR carts I have seen are with soft lead bullets.

June 30, 2013, 04:14 PM	#3
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Did you search the Internet? There is a lot about the cartridge, but finding load data with Google is going to take some reading. I found a little data here: http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail....95&LoadID=8387 http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpa...?CaliberID=264 And, I see that QuickLOAD has the parameters for it. That program indicates a maximum pressure of 3,000 bar (43,511 psi). The QuickLOAD database lists 10 suitable bullets from 325 to 410 grains, including bullets from Hawk, Barnes and Woodleigh. I checked my various Hornady and Barnes manuals, but did not find that cartridge covered in any of those, nor some really old manuals that I have lying around. If you can find the 11mm (0.435") bullets, you might be able to get the manufacturer of those bullets to suggest some loads if you call or e-mail them. SL1

July 1, 2013, 06:12 AM	#5
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I don't have a Westley Richards rifle. Was thinking of doing some wildcatting with the .425 as the parent cartridge, instead of the ole .404 Jeffery. Wanted to use the standard .470 bolt facing. Thanks for all the information!!

July 1, 2013, 07:26 AM	#6
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	I thought the OP was posting of a Wesley Richards carbine round which is much different than the rifle cartridge. The carbine round is similar to a 45LC round while the rifle round is much more powerful with a rebated rim.

July 1, 2013, 03:42 PM	#9
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	Mike Irwin Wait... Are you sure you're not thinking of the .425 Webley carbine round? Today 08:02 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 425 I am refering to has a case that is 1.320" long or close to 1, 5/16" long. OAL of the representative cartridge is 1, 3/4". Lead bullets mikes right at .425. Rim diameter is .490. I have a representative cart which the HS says ELEY 425. This is not the WR express cartridge or the Webley pistol round. As you can see from its length, it is a rifle cartridge. The person I obtained the cartridge from is a well known antigue arms dealer and he said it was made for a Wesley Richards rifle. It was not popular and few were made.

July 2, 2013, 03:59 PM	#11
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	That is spot on Mike. The Brits also had their line of "Rook" cartridges I am sure you are familiar with. The 425 was overkill for birds.

July 2, 2013, 05:05 PM	#12
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Hopefully I don't get in trouble for copy right.... buttttt.... According to the 13th edition of Cartridges of the World there was the .425 Westley Richards Magnum, and the .425 Westley Richards Semi-Rimmed Magnum. The most common and successful version has a rebated rim. Holding out hands, waiting for the cuffs....

July 2, 2013, 09:17 PM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	You're referencing the material in the 13th edition, not reproducing it ver batim. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 4, 2013, 11:55 AM	#14
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Well, that's good to know!! Anyways, it does mention that there were 2 different .425 Westley Richards cartridges made. The only pic they had was the rebated rim version.

July 5, 2013, 08:48 AM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Yes, there were, as I noted, variations of the .425 Wesley Richards Magnum, with the most common one being the rebated rim version for use in bolt action rifles. The .425 WR gained a very good reputation for itself in Africa and Asia. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.