Need info on WC860 surplus powder

Rob62 · July 3, 1999, 09:36 PM

Is there anyone out there using this powder for the smaller calibers. I'm looking to reload .223, .308 and 30-06 with 150 grainers. All the info I could find out on this powder says that data for H870 or AA8700 can be used. The smallest cartridge combo that I could find for this powder is for the '06 with 190 grain bullets. I definately want to use lighter bullets than this, plus I also want to use it in the previously mentioned calibers. Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Rob

------------------
It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish.
-----------------

rangerco · July 8, 1999, 10:56 AM

FORGET IT! It was cheap. But unless you have a good sized mag (say 7 Rem Mag) and you want to use HEAVY bullets (say 190 grain) THIS AIN'T IT. I am not sure the chunks are small enough to go into a .223 case. Cartridges of the World gives military uses for powders like this. I forget whether this one was for .50 Browning or some 20MM load. But .223 and .308 IT IS NOT. Sorry. happy trails.

Rob62 · July 8, 1999, 12:08 PM

rangerco,
I believe that you are right about this powder being originally designed for the .50 cal cartridge. As you are probably aware, it is now being sold very inexpensively (I'm sure due to the limited application/s). Due to the low cost I am hoping to use it in smaller cases. I *think* that it may be possible to use it in some smaller cases ie .308-30-06 size. I am even hoping that it may be used in the .223. No doubt that in these smaller cases it would be very limited as to getting any decent MV. But I really don't care too much about pushing a cartridge to its limits. I just wanna shoot cheap and hope that this powder may be the means to that end.
Regards,
Rob

------------------
It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish.
-----------------

rangerco · July 14, 1999, 10:27 AM

O.K. if you are talking about low, and I mean LOW cast bullet velocities, go ahead (you can load with jacketed bullets but why the increased expense when you don't need the jacket?). 190 grain bullets in .30 cal, you should be able to get 1200. Maybe 1500. .223 loads should equal .22 Long Rifle. But the other side of the question is "fouling". Now at these almost NO pressure loads (with which rimless cases can shorten and develope excessive headspace) you just don't burn the powder very cleanly. So bring a broom to clean your barrel with every couple shots... The half burned powder makes very good fertilizer, watch the grass in front of your shooting point GROW. I had to try this sort of nonsense. I used AA3100 in a .45/70 with round balls. Some one ball. Some two balls. Some with black powder wads under the ball. I was shooting a Ruger single shot. After each shot I could look down the barrel and take the case and tap it on the bench. About half the powder came out--half burned/singed. You figure the number of loads at a caseful per reload that you will get per pound and then compare the price of a powder that will preform similarly, say Red Dot with cast bullets, and you won't find you are saving much. But some people got to try it. I did. I won't repeat that mistake. GOOD LUCK. And keep the cases full. You might get pressure excursion with any less than a full case and blow the gun up...

Rob62 · July 14, 1999, 12:09 PM

In my hopes of being able to shoot for free, I have played around with a lot of different cost cutting "alternatives".

I have used cast bullets (CB's) in 30 caliber and bigger guns for quite a while. I really like the Lee .312185 (if I remember right) mould. I cast bullets from scrap Wheel Weight lead and shoot as cast, after I apply a light coat of Lee liquid Alox lube. A really good powder for shooting CB's in rifles is 2400. I know this is a pistol powder, but it isn't very position sensitive (some would say it is not) in the case. and I get about 430 loads from 1 pound of this powder. So my cost is less than about 6 cents per reload.

I still hope to find an inexpensive powder to use with jacketed bullets. I really wish that WC860 could be it. But at this point I sincerely doubt it. Guess I'll have to break down and purchase some other surplus powder in bulk.

flatlander · July 15, 1999, 11:09 PM

How about AA2200? It's relativly fast, so that it doesn't take much powder to get your pressure/velocity up to a usable level. It will work for 223 if you're not after top velocity, though it could be touchy with the heavier bullets. It's pretty cheap compared to other powders, and gets cheaper when you buy 4 jugs at a time. I've not talked to anyone who has tried to work up loads with it in a 308 or 30-06, but Accurate's ballistics tech could steer you right on that subject.

Rob62 · July 16, 1999, 12:04 PM

Whats AA2200 sell for around where your at ?

Rob

------------------
It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish.
-----------------

flatlander · July 17, 1999, 10:17 AM

Widener's latest catalog lists AA2200 for $60/8lb. jug or $199 for 4/8lb. jugs, including hazmat & shipping. They're still listing A2230-C for $82/8lbs. or $270 for 4/8lb. jugs. ph.#-800-615-3006. Web page is wideners.com I got a sale flier from them a month or so ago that had pulled 223 tracer bullets, as well as unfired LC & WCC 223 brass with inert primers still in the pocket. Prices were $42/1000, $120/3000, or $380/10,000.

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July 3, 1999, 09:36 PM	#1
Rob62 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 560	Is there anyone out there using this powder for the smaller calibers. I'm looking to reload .223, .308 and 30-06 with 150 grainers. All the info I could find out on this powder says that data for H870 or AA8700 can be used. The smallest cartridge combo that I could find for this powder is for the '06 with 190 grain bullets. I definately want to use lighter bullets than this, plus I also want to use it in the previously mentioned calibers. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Rob ------------------ It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish. -----------------

July 8, 1999, 10:56 AM	#2
rangerco Member Join Date: June 18, 1999 Posts: 56	FORGET IT! It was cheap. But unless you have a good sized mag (say 7 Rem Mag) and you want to use HEAVY bullets (say 190 grain) THIS AIN'T IT. I am not sure the chunks are small enough to go into a .223 case. Cartridges of the World gives military uses for powders like this. I forget whether this one was for .50 Browning or some 20MM load. But .223 and .308 IT IS NOT. Sorry. happy trails.

July 8, 1999, 12:08 PM	#3
Rob62 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 560	rangerco, I believe that you are right about this powder being originally designed for the .50 cal cartridge. As you are probably aware, it is now being sold very inexpensively (I'm sure due to the limited application/s). Due to the low cost I am hoping to use it in smaller cases. I think that it may be possible to use it in some smaller cases ie .308-30-06 size. I am even hoping that it may be used in the .223. No doubt that in these smaller cases it would be very limited as to getting any decent MV. But I really don't care too much about pushing a cartridge to its limits. I just wanna shoot cheap and hope that this powder may be the means to that end. Regards, Rob ------------------ It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish. -----------------

July 14, 1999, 10:27 AM	#4
rangerco Member Join Date: June 18, 1999 Posts: 56	O.K. if you are talking about low, and I mean LOW cast bullet velocities, go ahead (you can load with jacketed bullets but why the increased expense when you don't need the jacket?). 190 grain bullets in .30 cal, you should be able to get 1200. Maybe 1500. .223 loads should equal .22 Long Rifle. But the other side of the question is "fouling". Now at these almost NO pressure loads (with which rimless cases can shorten and develope excessive headspace) you just don't burn the powder very cleanly. So bring a broom to clean your barrel with every couple shots... The half burned powder makes very good fertilizer, watch the grass in front of your shooting point GROW. I had to try this sort of nonsense. I used AA3100 in a .45/70 with round balls. Some one ball. Some two balls. Some with black powder wads under the ball. I was shooting a Ruger single shot. After each shot I could look down the barrel and take the case and tap it on the bench. About half the powder came out--half burned/singed. You figure the number of loads at a caseful per reload that you will get per pound and then compare the price of a powder that will preform similarly, say Red Dot with cast bullets, and you won't find you are saving much. But some people got to try it. I did. I won't repeat that mistake. GOOD LUCK. And keep the cases full. You might get pressure excursion with any less than a full case and blow the gun up...

July 14, 1999, 12:09 PM	#5
Rob62 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 560	In my hopes of being able to shoot for free, I have played around with a lot of different cost cutting "alternatives". I have used cast bullets (CB's) in 30 caliber and bigger guns for quite a while. I really like the Lee .312185 (if I remember right) mould. I cast bullets from scrap Wheel Weight lead and shoot as cast, after I apply a light coat of Lee liquid Alox lube. A really good powder for shooting CB's in rifles is 2400. I know this is a pistol powder, but it isn't very position sensitive (some would say it is not) in the case. and I get about 430 loads from 1 pound of this powder. So my cost is less than about 6 cents per reload. I still hope to find an inexpensive powder to use with jacketed bullets. I really wish that WC860 could be it. But at this point I sincerely doubt it. Guess I'll have to break down and purchase some other surplus powder in bulk.

July 15, 1999, 11:09 PM	#6
flatlander Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 1999 Posts: 120	How about AA2200? It's relativly fast, so that it doesn't take much powder to get your pressure/velocity up to a usable level. It will work for 223 if you're not after top velocity, though it could be touchy with the heavier bullets. It's pretty cheap compared to other powders, and gets cheaper when you buy 4 jugs at a time. I've not talked to anyone who has tried to work up loads with it in a 308 or 30-06, but Accurate's ballistics tech could steer you right on that subject.

July 16, 1999, 12:04 PM	#7
Rob62 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 560	Whats AA2200 sell for around where your at ? Rob ------------------ It's amazing what a large group of stupid people can accomplish. -----------------

July 17, 1999, 10:17 AM	#8
flatlander Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 1999 Posts: 120	Widener's latest catalog lists AA2200 for $60/8lb. jug or $199 for 4/8lb. jugs, including hazmat & shipping. They're still listing A2230-C for $82/8lbs. or $270 for 4/8lb. jugs. ph.#-800-615-3006. Web page is wideners.com I got a sale flier from them a month or so ago that had pulled 223 tracer bullets, as well as unfired LC & WCC 223 brass with inert primers still in the pocket. Prices were $42/1000, $120/3000, or $380/10,000.