.400 Corbon

bighead46 · February 7, 2011, 03:09 PM

Hope I got the caliber and name right. About 7-10 years ago there was an outfit that was pushing a new cartridge- a 45ACP case necked down to take a 40 caliber bullet. You had to buy a new barrel and heavy recoil spring but the rest of a Colt Gov. Model was fine. The ballistics were supposed to be equal to a 357 magnum and the bottleneck case was supposed to flawlessly feed into the chamber so you could use flat point bullets, etc. Sounded like the best of all worlds but I never heard anything more about it.

Brian Pfleuger · February 7, 2011, 03:30 PM

What do you want to know about it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.400_Corbon

As far as "ballistics supposed to match a 357mag".... I think you have the .400 Corbon confused with the 357Sig, which is a round designed (essentially) on the 10mm/40SW case necked down .355. It is supposed to (and does) match 357mag performance with a 125gr bullet.... but with a shorter barrel than would be required in a revolver and much higher capacity.

I don't know if anyone makes a gun chambered for .400Corbon but you can still conversion barrels for many guns.

rjrivero · February 7, 2011, 05:27 PM

I actually have a conversion barrel for 400 Corbon for my Glock 21. It'll achive the 10mm ballistics out of a .45 parent case. Pretty nice cartridge, if only a niche deal. I've done dumber things for more money.

SL1 · February 7, 2011, 05:36 PM

Seems like this cartridge would have similar neck tension / bullet grip issues as the 357 Sig.

And, for all you guys who think that you can look at .45 ACP brass and judge pressure, this cartridge is loaded to something like 37,500 psi, like the 10mm, but it is using regular .45ACP cases, just necked-down, but still designed for a ~20,000 psi cartridge. (Good thing that 1911s are strong guns.)

SL1

TATER · February 7, 2011, 05:49 PM

StarLine makes brass for .45 Super.

bighead46 · February 8, 2011, 01:47 PM

Well I was wrong then about the 357 Mag performance. The 10mm isn't as powerful.

Brian Pfleuger · February 8, 2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SL1

And, for all you guys who think that you can look at .45 ACP brass and judge pressure, this cartridge is loaded to something like 37,500 psi, like the 10mm, but it is using regular .45ACP cases, just necked-down, but still designed for a ~20,000 psi cartridge. (Good thing that 1911s are strong guns.)

I've been doing some researching and I have found that there is some considerable confusion between the .40Super, developed in 1996 by Triton, and the .400 Cor-bon, developed in 1998 by Cor-bon.

The problem is that both rounds are essentially based on the .45acp case and necked down to .400.

Here are the essential differences that I have found:

1)The .400 Corbon has a pressure limit of approximately 27,000psi, apparently due to the case design, while the .40Super is (artificially) set at 37,000 psi, though the case can apparently handle much more.

2)The .400 Corbon is LITERALLY a 45acp case necked to .400, though factory cases are now made with small primers. The .40Super was the same initial concept but was later built using .45 Winchester Mag and, later, a case all it's own was designed, notably also using a small primer rather than a large. Though the external case is virtually identical in appearance, the .40Super case is .009 longer and a different design internally so as to handle the much higher pressures.

3)Due to 1 and 2, the .40Super is capable of much, much higher performance than the .400 Corbon. The .400 Corbon having a muzzle energy somewhere in the upper 500 ft/lb range, while the .40Super can exceed 1,000ft/lbs in 6" barrel and well over 900 in a 5" barrel.

SL1 · February 9, 2011, 10:00 AM

But, be advised that the confusion apparently extends to the published, pressure-tested load data for the .400 Corbon.

Specifically, the Accurate Powders Manual #2 says "the .400 Corbon was developed by necking a .45 ACP case down to .40" and that they used a37,500 psi limit to develop their loads. They say they used Winchster cases, but note that Starline makes .400 Corbon case.

Their data showes peak pressures as high as 35,200 psi, presumably loaded in Winchester cases necked to .40, since I don't believe that Winchester makes .400 Corbon cases or ammo.

However, I think using .45 Super cases is a darn good idea if you want to neck down .45 cases and shoot hot loads. But, remember that hot load data developed in .45 ACP cases will be even hotter in .45 Super cases, assuming less internal volume (for the same trimmed case length in .400 Corbon).

SL1

Brian Pfleuger · February 9, 2011, 10:10 AM

Well that's interesting... I wonder if they're using the .40Super case design for the .400Corbon now?

If so, they have essentially turned the Corbon into the Super. The performance would be virtually identical at those PSI levels.

The .40Super seems like a really awesome cartridge, that apparently no one uses anymore.

I'm going to have to write Starline and Accurate to ask them. I'd love to have a .40Super barrel for my Glock but if .400Corbon does the deed...

bighead46 · February 9, 2011, 11:25 AM

And...for someone like me (totally in the dark) is there any advantage on any of these hot loads over the regular 45ACP as far as a self defense round????? Thanks.
On the hot loads- do they beat up the gun at all? Need strong springs, etc?

Brian Pfleuger · February 9, 2011, 12:31 PM

These cartridges (.40Super and .400Corbon) would beat the hell out of an unmodified, stock .45.

At the very least, you'd need a recoil spring in the 24-26# region.

Also, I've read that depending on the gun and it's action type, you may have a problem with the slide being light enough that these extra heavy loads would be very close to opening the action while pressures are still dangerously high. This theory sounds a little suspect to me, as it seems like the spring would have more to do with this than the slide weight but I don't really know for sure.

The "beneficial" side, from a self-defense aspect is highly questionable. Most all major handgun rounds are very similar from a wound channel and penetration standpoint. Naturally, there are CONSTANT arguments about this or that round being a "one-shot stopper", or the famous (and nonsensical) "stopping power" of handgun rounds... but basically there are two things that really matter.... first and foremost is shot placement, which should be the same on the first shot for any round, and follow-up shots, which is where ultra-high power, ultra-high recoil rounds can be at a major disadvantage.

Of course, if shot #1 blows the bad guy in half, well....

Brian Pfleuger · February 15, 2011, 03:46 PM

Ok, so I emailed Accurate and their response is that the load limit for .400Corbon is 29,000psi. They did not comment on previous data showing 35,000+ psi.

Interestingly, they did say that they see no problem using (properly trimmed/sized) .40Super brass for the .400Corbon but they did not indicate that doing so would increase acceptable load limits.

TATER · February 15, 2011, 04:37 PM

Typo my friend,

.45 Super for .400Corbon

Brian Pfleuger · February 15, 2011, 04:41 PM

The .45 super operates at pressure around 10,000psi lower than the .40Super. Using .40Super cases in .400Corbon guns should allow for .40Super performance levels, using .45super cases would limit you to .400Corbon pressures, in other words, there would be no advantage over using .400corbon cases.

TATER · February 15, 2011, 05:08 PM

“Stay with-it Tater”
I figured it out, In my lapse I was think’en .40 super was a beefed up .40 straight wall case.

bighead46 · February 15, 2011, 06:53 PM

Well, it seems the .400Corbon had some advantages on paper but in the field the regular 45ACP got the job done- probably why the .400Corbon never became that popular.

February 9, 2011, 10:00 AM	#8
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	I don't doubt that there is confusion. But, be advised that the confusion apparently extends to the published, pressure-tested load data for the .400 Corbon. Specifically, the Accurate Powders Manual #2 says "the .400 Corbon was developed by necking a .45 ACP case down to .40" and that they used a37,500 psi limit to develop their loads. They say they used Winchster cases, but note that Starline makes .400 Corbon case. Their data showes peak pressures as high as 35,200 psi, presumably loaded in Winchester cases necked to .40, since I don't believe that Winchester makes .400 Corbon cases or ammo. However, I think using .45 Super cases is a darn good idea if you want to neck down .45 cases and shoot hot loads. But, remember that hot load data developed in .45 ACP cases will be even hotter in .45 Super cases, assuming less internal volume (for the same trimmed case length in .400 Corbon). SL1

February 9, 2011, 10:10 AM	#9
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Well that's interesting... I wonder if they're using the .40Super case design for the .400Corbon now? If so, they have essentially turned the Corbon into the Super. The performance would be virtually identical at those PSI levels. The .40Super seems like a really awesome cartridge, that apparently no one uses anymore. I'm going to have to write Starline and Accurate to ask them. I'd love to have a .40Super barrel for my Glock but if .400Corbon does the deed... __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 9, 2011, 12:31 PM	#11
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	These cartridges (.40Super and .400Corbon) would beat the hell out of an unmodified, stock .45. At the very least, you'd need a recoil spring in the 24-26# region. Also, I've read that depending on the gun and it's action type, you may have a problem with the slide being light enough that these extra heavy loads would be very close to opening the action while pressures are still dangerously high. This theory sounds a little suspect to me, as it seems like the spring would have more to do with this than the slide weight but I don't really know for sure. The "beneficial" side, from a self-defense aspect is highly questionable. Most all major handgun rounds are very similar from a wound channel and penetration standpoint. Naturally, there are CONSTANT arguments about this or that round being a "one-shot stopper", or the famous (and nonsensical) "stopping power" of handgun rounds... but basically there are two things that really matter.... first and foremost is shot placement, which should be the same on the first shot for any round, and follow-up shots, which is where ultra-high power, ultra-high recoil rounds can be at a major disadvantage. Of course, if shot #1 blows the bad guy in half, well.... __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 15, 2011, 03:46 PM	#12
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Ok, so I emailed Accurate and their response is that the load limit for .400Corbon is 29,000psi. They did not comment on previous data showing 35,000+ psi. Interestingly, they did say that they see no problem using (properly trimmed/sized) .40Super brass for the .400Corbon but they did not indicate that doing so would increase acceptable load limits. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 15, 2011, 04:41 PM	#14
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	The .45 super operates at pressure around 10,000psi lower than the .40Super. Using .40Super cases in .400Corbon guns should allow for .40Super performance levels, using .45super cases would limit you to .400Corbon pressures, in other words, there would be no advantage over using .400corbon cases. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 7, 2011, 03:09 PM	#1
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	.400 Corbon Hope I got the caliber and name right. About 7-10 years ago there was an outfit that was pushing a new cartridge- a 45ACP case necked down to take a 40 caliber bullet. You had to buy a new barrel and heavy recoil spring but the rest of a Colt Gov. Model was fine. The ballistics were supposed to be equal to a 357 magnum and the bottleneck case was supposed to flawlessly feed into the chamber so you could use flat point bullets, etc. Sounded like the best of all worlds but I never heard anything more about it.

February 7, 2011, 03:30 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	What do you want to know about it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.400_Corbon As far as "ballistics supposed to match a 357mag".... I think you have the .400 Corbon confused with the 357Sig, which is a round designed (essentially) on the 10mm/40SW case necked down .355. It is supposed to (and does) match 357mag performance with a 125gr bullet.... but with a shorter barrel than would be required in a revolver and much higher capacity. I don't know if anyone makes a gun chambered for .400Corbon but you can still conversion barrels for many guns. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

February 7, 2011, 05:27 PM	#3
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	I actually have a conversion barrel for 400 Corbon for my Glock 21. It'll achive the 10mm ballistics out of a .45 parent case. Pretty nice cartridge, if only a niche deal. I've done dumber things for more money.

February 7, 2011, 05:36 PM	#4
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	Seems like this cartridge would have similar neck tension / bullet grip issues as the 357 Sig. And, for all you guys who think that you can look at .45 ACP brass and judge pressure, this cartridge is loaded to something like 37,500 psi, like the 10mm, but it is using regular .45ACP cases, just necked-down, but still designed for a ~20,000 psi cartridge. (Good thing that 1911s are strong guns.) SL1

February 7, 2011, 05:49 PM	#5
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	StarLine makes brass for .45 Super.

February 8, 2011, 01:47 PM	#6
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	Well I was wrong then about the 357 Mag performance. The 10mm isn't as powerful.

February 9, 2011, 11:25 AM	#10
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	And...for someone like me (totally in the dark) is there any advantage on any of these hot loads over the regular 45ACP as far as a self defense round????? Thanks. On the hot loads- do they beat up the gun at all? Need strong springs, etc?

February 15, 2011, 04:37 PM	#13
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	Typo my friend, .45 Super for .400Corbon

February 15, 2011, 05:08 PM	#15
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	“Stay with-it Tater” I figured it out, In my lapse I was think’en .40 super was a beefed up .40 straight wall case.

February 15, 2011, 06:53 PM	#16
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	Well, it seems the .400Corbon had some advantages on paper but in the field the regular 45ACP got the job done- probably why the .400Corbon never became that popular.