S&W hammer doesn't catch when cocked

jrclarke · January 1, 2014, 12:12 PM

A circa 1890 S&W single action, 2nd model, 5 shot revolver with spur trigger has been passed down through the family for generations. I've begun reading up on it, thanks in large part to this forum and a couple of e-books, but I would like to narrow down the possible causes of the hammer not catching when cocked. (The pistol isn't pretty, but mechanically seems OK except for the failure to remain cocked.) I do have instructions for disassembling it, and have detailed illustrations of earlier single action spur trigger pistols, but don't know where to start looking for the source of the problem. Since I'm a newbie to this forum, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

357 Python · January 1, 2014, 10:37 PM

I am far from an expert and am not familiar with the design but it seems to me you should check 2 parts. Either the sear or sear notch on the hammer could be severly worn or both. This is where I would start.

**JohnKSa** · January 1, 2014, 10:58 PM

Just a caution. I'm not familiar with that particular firearm, but given its age, before you do ANYTHING to it, it would be advisable to establish its value.

Any modifications you make to it, including attempted repairs, could significantly reduce its value.

**44 AMP** · January 2, 2014, 07:01 AM

Good advice from John.

Find out if its worth something. Collectors are funny folks, some will pay top dollar for what I would call broken crap. Others won't. If what you have is a sought after model, doing anything to it (including repair) lowers its value to some collectors.

While the usual cause of a hammer not standing at full cock is a worn or broken part(s), it is also possible that there is some kind of crud in the action that is having the same effect. CAREFUL disassembly and a good cleaning might fix your problem. Or they might not. But it is a good place to start.

And, you are going to have to take it apart (or someone else will) in order to find out which parts (if any) need repair.

Not all old guns are valuable collector's items, but some are, and the difference between a gun worth $150 and $1500 on the market may be something as small as the specific markings or some other rare variation of a common feature. Its a very good idea to find out exactly what you have, and what its worth, before you do anything else.

**Mike Irwin** · January 2, 2014, 07:37 AM

Generally these revolvers are not particularly valuable.

Value comes from one being either a first model, which this one would not be circa 1890, or from being in, or near, pristine condition with box and paperwork.

That said, your gun's problems are most likely caused by a broken sear, or by someone who tried to "gunsmith" the sear to give a better trigger pull.

It could also be the sear seat on the hammer, but I'm suspecting that it's the actual sear.

Finding a replacement part is going to be problematic.

jrclarke · January 2, 2014, 11:15 PM

I found a local expert in antique guns in town; I'll let him look at it, but I agree it's not a particularly valuable pistol. Over 100,000 of them were made, and this one's from near the end of the run.
See attached photo.

**Mike Irwin** · January 3, 2014, 07:49 AM

You know, that one is really a relic. Condition is terrible, with what appears to be a pretty substantial amount of rust damage. I would turn it into a wall hanger and not even go to the expense of trying to have it fixed.

Driftwood Johnson · January 3, 2014, 03:58 PM

Howdy

There is nothing undesirable about a S&W 38 Single Action 2nd Model, it's just that the First Model is more desirable. The First Model is also known as the Baby Russian because of the configuration of the ejector housing.

I have attached a couple of photos of my S&W 38 Single Action 2nd Model, which shipped in 1877.

These guns are fairly common. In order to inspect the sear and hammer notches, the side plate needs to be removed. Never pry it off. Remove the grips, then remove the two side plate screws, then using the handle of a hammer, strike the grip frame. Use the handle, not the head. Strike the grip frame and inertia will drive the side plate out. Chances are it will be very difficult to find replacement parts for this gun, and it really isn't worth welding up the parts and recutting them unless you know somebody who actually knows how to do that.

10-96 · January 4, 2014, 04:52 AM

Your expert may find that the pistol was intentionally turned into a double action. There's been a great many agencies over the years that have done that to firearms out of distrust of light trigger pull when the weapon is fully cocked.

**Mike Irwin** · January 4, 2014, 10:02 AM

"Your expert may find that the pistol was intentionally turned into a double action."

It's a spur trigger S&W.

That means that it came from the factory as single action only.

NO double action capability at all, no capability to make it double action, either.

10-96 · January 5, 2014, 03:37 AM

My bad... I guess S&W 'intentionally' turned it into a single action- lol.

January 1, 2014, 12:12 PM	#1
jrclarke Junior Member Join Date: December 29, 2013 Location: Panama City Beach, FL Posts: 2	S&W hammer doesn't catch when cocked A circa 1890 S&W single action, 2nd model, 5 shot revolver with spur trigger has been passed down through the family for generations. I've begun reading up on it, thanks in large part to this forum and a couple of e-books, but I would like to narrow down the possible causes of the hammer not catching when cocked. (The pistol isn't pretty, but mechanically seems OK except for the failure to remain cocked.) I do have instructions for disassembling it, and have detailed illustrations of earlier single action spur trigger pistols, but don't know where to start looking for the source of the problem. Since I'm a newbie to this forum, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

January 1, 2014, 10:58 PM	#3
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,990	Just a caution. I'm not familiar with that particular firearm, but given its age, before you do ANYTHING to it, it would be advisable to establish its value. Any modifications you make to it, including attempted repairs, could significantly reduce its value. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

January 2, 2014, 07:01 AM	#4
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	Good advice from John. Find out if its worth something. Collectors are funny folks, some will pay top dollar for what I would call broken crap. Others won't. If what you have is a sought after model, doing anything to it (including repair) lowers its value to some collectors. While the usual cause of a hammer not standing at full cock is a worn or broken part(s), it is also possible that there is some kind of crud in the action that is having the same effect. CAREFUL disassembly and a good cleaning might fix your problem. Or they might not. But it is a good place to start. And, you are going to have to take it apart (or someone else will) in order to find out which parts (if any) need repair. Not all old guns are valuable collector's items, but some are, and the difference between a gun worth $150 and $1500 on the market may be something as small as the specific markings or some other rare variation of a common feature. Its a very good idea to find out exactly what you have, and what its worth, before you do anything else. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 2, 2014, 07:37 AM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Generally these revolvers are not particularly valuable. Value comes from one being either a first model, which this one would not be circa 1890, or from being in, or near, pristine condition with box and paperwork. That said, your gun's problems are most likely caused by a broken sear, or by someone who tried to "gunsmith" the sear to give a better trigger pull. It could also be the sear seat on the hammer, but I'm suspecting that it's the actual sear. Finding a replacement part is going to be problematic. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 3, 2014, 07:49 AM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	You know, that one is really a relic. Condition is terrible, with what appears to be a pretty substantial amount of rust damage. I would turn it into a wall hanger and not even go to the expense of trying to have it fixed. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 1, 2014, 10:37 PM	#2
357 Python Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 941	I am far from an expert and am not familiar with the design but it seems to me you should check 2 parts. Either the sear or sear notch on the hammer could be severly worn or both. This is where I would start.

January 4, 2014, 04:52 AM	#9
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	Your expert may find that the pistol was intentionally turned into a double action. There's been a great many agencies over the years that have done that to firearms out of distrust of light trigger pull when the weapon is fully cocked. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

January 4, 2014, 10:02 AM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"Your expert may find that the pistol was intentionally turned into a double action." It's a spur trigger S&W. That means that it came from the factory as single action only. NO double action capability at all, no capability to make it double action, either. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 5, 2014, 03:37 AM	#11
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	My bad... I guess S&W 'intentionally' turned it into a single action- lol. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.