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Old November 27, 2005, 08:02 AM   #226
Remington kid
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With the bore butter (I use wonder lube) I like to ad real bees wax, a litttle candle wax and some olive oil untel I get the consistencie I like . For about $10.00 I can get 2 quorts of the stuff and it has lasted me for many years and will for many more.
Made some pills and still have them but believe me when I say they don't work well over the powder. When I use them that way it always contaminates the powder when you compress the ball and pill and powder togeather my Remingtons just go "POP" instead of "B-A-N-G"
The pills I made are about 1/8" so I started useing them over the ball. Works great! Just press one over the ball with your thumb and your good to go.
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Old November 27, 2005, 10:39 AM   #227
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I may just have to try those pills! Any idea about a good way to carry them in an accessory pouch and keep them from clumping together?

Steve
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Old November 28, 2005, 09:16 AM   #228
Old Dragoon
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My New Remington almost done

Guys here is the new Remington. I still have a couple sessions left to get it where the other one is, or close, but you'll get the idea. the Ivories are from Grip.com and they color pretty well.
Right


Left


The Avenging Angels Right



The Avenging Angels Left


The new Remmy seems to have had some action work done as it is SMOOOOTH and the Hammer spring appears to have been worked also, that or this action is the best right from the box. No rough edges at all no marks on the hammer just really smooth.

My only gripe with the new one is that the cylinder is a witch to get back into the frame. I'll work on the hand a bit to ease that up. The Konverter works great in both so I know it is the hand hanging up the cylinder going back in the frame. Now to get another Konverter and antique the first one's BP cylinder. Then I'm good to go.
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Old November 28, 2005, 02:16 PM   #229
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dragoon,they both look great!! i have to get me one of those conversion cylinders.i like the frist better than the r&d i think.i like the way the breech ring looks.
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Old November 28, 2005, 03:08 PM   #230
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I agree with MP1423, they sure look great!
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Old November 28, 2005, 04:02 PM   #231
Old Dragoon
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Thanks Guys.
I just ordered the Kirst ejector assy's for both. Will order the 44 Rem. Kirst Konverter in a couple weeks for the second one. Plan to antique the remaining BP cylinder when I do the ejector assy's. ....cause right now it's fully loaded and just waiting to be shot. I think I may buy the gated version this time. Depends on the cost.

Now I start looking for the '58 Rem revolving rifle. There was one on Gunbroker a week or so ago but it was full price, There was another one that the guy wanted $275.00 or so for it and it had been shot one cylinder full. It was a Pietta too from Cabela's. It was the week that I bought the Konverter.
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Old November 28, 2005, 06:04 PM   #232
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dragoon,what are you having to pay for your kirst converters and where are you getting yours?
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Old November 28, 2005, 06:56 PM   #233
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Old Dragoon
Very nice job on antiquating the ivory and the metal.
I’m impressed. You do good work. Tell us more on the
how to part. Maybe start a new post. I know that I
would like more information on the why and wherefores.

Happy Holidays
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Old November 28, 2005, 09:37 PM   #234
Old Dragoon
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MPP1423,

I'm getting my Kirst Konverters from River Junction Trade Co., their prices are online here:

http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/index.html

I'm paying retail but Jim gives great service and quick delivery. 4 days to California from McGregor Iowa. probably a day quicker to your location.
He is the first retailer to sell the Kirst line. He is a personal friend of Walter Kirst. I had the pleasure to meet Jim a few years back at a K.C. Gun Collectors Show. Really nice guy.and they have about anything pertaining to our sport that you might want.

You'll see that the 44 Rem converter is less expensive than the gated version with the ejector assy. Even with the ejector assy. You can port the recoil ring yourself, like I do and save some bucks. No the bullets won't fall out due to the timing of the cylinder and beveling of the recoil shield picks up any that might slip back before that first shot. After the first shot the cartridges swell in the chamber anyway(every Revolver works this way but you never think of it because you have a gate or shield).

I reload 44 Mag, 44 Colt and now 44 Rem. loading of the Colt cartridge. That is why I went this way. That, and the fact that the 44 Rem. Konverter is a full six shot and not a 5 and 1(safety). I can choose which chamber I want to leave empty. It bugs me that others can make that choice for you. (Reason I took the plug out of my Birdshead gripped Colt Clone from Uberti. Darn it I will make the decision which chamber to leave empty...or fill them all if I want to. (not for SASS though).

I have the prices for the moulds from Old West Moulds, also their special crimper and lube/sizer(both fit and their 248 grn bullets now too. I'll send them to anyone that wants them by private email, or the private message on this forum. Old West is very competitive he'll reload once fired with BP or Smokeless, he'll size and lube bullets or let you size and lube, he provides soft lube for BP and hard lube for Smokeless(the 44 rem loaded colt 44 brass is smokeless but soft outside lubed).

tinker2,
I started a new how to thread for you.

I'd be glad to Antique one for you.

Last edited by Old Dragoon; November 29, 2005 at 09:17 AM.
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Old November 29, 2005, 12:24 AM   #235
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Steve,

From what I understand, the pills are kinda separate when they harden , most of them that use them use an Altoids tin or the like. No reason a baggie wouldn't work. They're supposed to be hard enough to remain separate, but soft enough to mash on top of a bll in the chamber. Or under, if you like.

I think RK is using another mixture, more oily to soak the powder.

Cheers,

George
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Old November 29, 2005, 07:51 AM   #236
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Gerorge, The mixture I used for the pills is not very oilie but I think I create a problem with contamination due to the fact that I shoot 40g of fffg. It takes a lot of preasure to compress this load and you are really mashing or squeezing the pill in to the powder.Can't help for the powder to get mashed in with the pill. They may work grate for light loads or if someone wanted to use just wax to make them. Even then I believe it would be impossiable not to contaminate the powder if you let it sit for any length of time.
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Old November 29, 2005, 11:59 PM   #237
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Rem, If you make them a little thinner, like 1/16, and mash 'em down on top of the ball, you still got a seal, and you still have lube (Hey, you are driving the ball down the barrel with some kind of grease in front of it.) Next ball does the same, more lube.

You are makin' them mashable, aren't you, not like a disc of paraffin? That stuff is hard as a rock at room temp.

Cheers,

George
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Old November 30, 2005, 06:57 AM   #238
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George, They work great over the ball and it makes them easy to use that way. I still use my wool wad over the powder and like the lube (pill) just to help keep things running smooth. Never did like a lubed wad or lube over the powder but thought I would try it again after reading an artical on another site. It works fine if your not going to let the powder sit for a while.
When I head for the woods a couple days a week my Remington is on my side but it may be a week or more before I dispatch a snake or a mean old pine cone By then the powder is really contaminated.
Also it's my belieaf that you can get the lube to waxie and then it serves no purpose as a cleaner or lube but seals the chamber from chain fire only and helps gum up the works as melted wax would do.
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Old November 30, 2005, 09:28 AM   #239
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I used to use bore butter over the ball, but the heat of the first shot melted it all out of the end of every chamber and I was left with basically no lube. I didn't want to pay for the wonder wads, so I bought some vegetable fiber wads from cabela's...I think there were 1000 of them in the box I bought. I seat one of those over the powder (dry) and then put just a little bore butter over the top, then seat the ball and that has worked wonders for keeping the gun lubed up while I'm shooting, (no more locked up cylinder after 10 or so shots).
I'll leave a cylinder loaded that way for a week or so and then shoot it out and see if it goes BOOM or pop, and let you guys know the results. I'm hoping that the dry wad insulates the charge from the lube as long as I don't use so much grease that seating the ball oozes it past the wad into the powder.

edited to complete my thought process,
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Last edited by Low Key; November 30, 2005 at 02:16 PM.
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Old December 1, 2005, 12:30 AM   #240
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I think this is the big thing with the pills, they ain't Bore Butter, I mean so soft that the blast from the chamber fired blows it off the adjacent chambers.

If you have to force the balls into the chambers, shave lead, I don't think there is a chance in hell you will get a chain fire from the chamber end of the cylinder.

Loose caps, the other end, more likely. Think I have read a few posts on other sites to say so. Loose caps can blow off, leave the nipples open, fire can enter, fire the next chamber.

Cheers,

george
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Old December 1, 2005, 05:42 AM   #241
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George, I think you're right about the chain fires being from loose caps and not from the chamber end of the cylinder. I've read somewhere else that the late great Elmer Keith had the same opinion. Personally, I dont' see how the blast from a fired cylinder could get around the adjacent lead ball on the chamber end of the cylinder, but it's easy to imagine a cap falling off and allowing a spark from a fired chamber in to ignite the powder charge.
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Old December 2, 2005, 12:29 AM   #242
gmatov
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Lowkey,

Hell, it ain't a spark, it's a flash of fire, p'rtnear as much as a flintlock's priming charge. If the cap is missing from the next chamber, whoops, 50-50 chance that'un will fire, too. Well, mebbe 80-20. It IS a small hole in the nipple. Have to be unlucky.

But, then, ain't we all?

If you DID use a "pill" over the ball, why would you use a felt wad under the ball?

It ain't like the felt wad is doing anything other than scrubbing any lube from the pill outa the barrel. Or is it a lubed wad? If it is, RK's argyment comes into play, oily stuff in contact with the powder can't be good.

Cheers,

George
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Old December 2, 2005, 06:07 AM   #243
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The lube I'm using right now is bore butter, but I've got a line on some beeswax to mix with it to thicken it up a bit. I'll try the "pill" over the ball once my beeswax gets here and see how that works.
Right now the way I load is powder charge, dry vegetable fiber wad, little bit of bore butter, and then seat the ball and that seems to work real well for me as far as keeping everything lubed up and running smooth.
My biggest problem has been keeping the cylinder freed up after several shots. It used to bind up pretty quick and I'd have to clean between cylinder loadings to keep it running. Mike told me how to polish the cylinder pin to smooth that out, so I polished it till you can just nearly see your reflection in it and that helped a great deal. Then I tried the new dry wads with just a bit of bore butter between them and the ball and everything seems to work like clockwork. I haven't done an endurance test yet, but I plan on shooting 24 or 30 shots this weekend if it isn't as cold as a well diggers butt outside.
The lube "pill" sound like a cool idea and I'm curious to see how well that would keep my gun running, beeswax on order...just waiting for now.
Thanks George!
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Old December 2, 2005, 07:59 AM   #244
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A while back I started useing a little lube over the dry wad, ball and the pill. This really works great but I have added a twist that makes a really big difference.The lube over the wad is just a little thicker than wonder lube so that it works as a lube and not as a heavy wax. The pill over the ball is heavier or thicker so that it sticks in hot weather and also after fireing shots.
The wad seems to really help in three ways, it helps seal from chain fires, acts as a brush following the lube and it put's the ball closer to the mouth of the chamber without measureing out corn meal or corn flakes
The wads I use are home made from real wool and they start out about 1/8" thick . After loading my 40g of Goex fff , a wad with a smear of lube on top, 454 ball it places the ball about 1/8" from the top of the chamber after all is compressed by the ram.
When I got my Remingtons and did the tune up thing I also chamfered the mouth of the cylinders to make loading easier and there is very little saving of the ball but it's compressed the same. The pill over the ball is just extra insurance and it doesn't seem to hurt anything as far as accuracy, so why not use it?
The next pills I make will be a little softer with more lube and about 1/16" as George suggested but Im going to try them over the over the wool wad and see what happens. Just slide the wad over the chamber and start it with my thumb as always and then do the same with a lube pill, then place the ball on top and run it home. It should work great, but with my luck you never know
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Old December 4, 2005, 01:21 AM   #245
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Melted some bee's wax and oil about 50/50 last night. Poured it onto foil, real thin, mebbe 1/16. Went to bed. When I come down this morning, oil was seperating from the wax. That ain't good. That's gonna contaminate the powder with oil, whether it interferes with the powder's blast or not, I don't know, but don't think oil saturated powder is gonna be full power.

Have to get some lamb tallow. Fortunately, as a Serb, who loves lamb, I can just go barbeque a chunk, no salt (crap, no garlic, either) and try miixing that in. Can't use my country bacon grease, as that is full of salt and the like, too.

For bee's wax, go to the plumber's outlet at Home Depot or wherever and look at the toilet bowl seals. Some are bee's wax, and they are like a buck or two.

Cheers,

George
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Old December 6, 2005, 10:47 AM   #246
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George, I've never had the olive oil separate from the beeswax after they are melted together. If you are using those toilet bowl seals, I bet you got one that had something else in it besides beeswax. I used to use those things as a lube over the balls in a BP revolver and the ones I got were called wax seals but were actually some kind if really heavy grease. There may be some that have a lot of real beeswax in them but pure beeswax would be too hard at normal room temperature to work the way a toilet seal is supposed to work so they would probably have some additive in them. If you dry the oil off of your cooled lube, does it keep on separating out or has it finished doing that? The first separation may be that additive and you may be left with usable lube.
I have some sheets of pure beeswax foundation left over from my bee-keeping days. I'd be happy to mail you 2 or 3 for you to experiment with some wax you know isn't mixed with something else.

Steve
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Old December 6, 2005, 09:51 PM   #247
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Steve,

I'd appreciate that. I'm not sure, now, that I know bee's wax when I see it. I was pretty sure it was bee's wax, they used a lot of it where I worked many years ago, and I had a pound or so block, but mixed with the oil, it looks more like parrafin, waxy white. The golden oil doesn't even give it a tellow tint.

It's as hard as the slabs of parrafin, also.

I didn't use a bowl ring, didn't have one. Did buy one, tonight, though, and sitting in the house an hour and a half, warming up, you can press hard enough to leave a thumbprint in the surface. Almost brassy in color. Does not smell like anything.

I remelted what I had made, and this time it is not weeping, but it's also still in the melting container.

If you're sure of the starter sheets, I find your e-mail is listed. I'll send you a mail with my mailing address.

Thanks much.

Cheers,

George
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Old December 7, 2005, 01:23 AM   #248
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Hey george what's up? Just dropped by to see what's up in here. Jus'ta let ya know most all those dunny bowl seals are petroleum base...you don't want to use them in BP Guns. If they do work George let me know, there may not be enough petro to hurt anything. Maybe I'll try a small batch too.I use toilet seal rings to watersproof muzzleoader barrels or waterproopf caps only.
Hi to the rest of you Ranglers, wanted to mention the about the lube pills briefly. The ones I make and a few of us at another forum, are made with T/C Natural Lube 1000 Bore Butter, Parafin, and Beeswax. Or either and/or olive oil. I use these in every Rev I have and they do not contaminate the Powder. I use strictly "Holy Black" and nothin else C&B or Cartridge. They ork excellant. Myself I have never had a use for Wonder Wad or Wool of any type. If you use these pills you need nothing else. To melt and mix this concoction, you nee to boil water in one pan, then set a second pan in the boiling water and place the mixture in the second pan. Kinda like poachin an egg. This should help the mixing process, and may prevent the seperation problems. Anyway it works for me...
Remington Kid, you must be using a Dragoon to load 40gr of FFFg BP a Wonder Wad and a ball with a lube pill on it...Is that what you are talking about. Cause in my Rems I can just barely get a ball in on top of 35-37gr of BP. I was just wondering what you were shooting. In my Colt Dragoon I shoot 40gr of FFFg C&B and 30gr FFFg in a Cartridge w/ 255gr FP softlead Bullet...Snaps out pretty good.
Anyway Just wanted ta put my 2 cents in and say Hi to all.
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Old December 7, 2005, 10:14 AM   #249
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I'll be watching my e-mail, George. The foundation is pure beeswax because the bees can tell even if we can't.

Steve
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Old December 7, 2005, 10:47 AM   #250
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Smoken Gun, It amazes me at how many people claim they can't load 40g in a Remington .44 and I have been doing it for a long time and so have others on here and other sites. That's what I carry in the woods and it's what I take deer with.
40g of fff Goex, A 1/8" home made felt wad over the powder, grease over the wad and a .454 ball will still leave you enough room for a pill or lube on top of the ball if you like to do that. I like a little lube on top not because Im worried about chain fires but because the wad and lube togeather help to keep the barrel clean and the works running smooth.
Take a look at the thread on this site called "How to Load .40g in your Remington .44"
Lube of any kind including just wax will contaminate the powder in hot weather or if left to sit to long. Load three chambers with a dry wd and three with a pill and let it sit a spell. You will feel, see and hear the difference.Maybe I should say That I and others who have tried this do feel and hear the difference.
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