38spl and Trail Boss loads

52_and_done · November 30, 2018, 03:42 AM

The gun is a Taurus 4" model 66 7-shot, I have been using TG as my powder and load 3.6g of it under a 158g Speer #4207 TMJ bullet, and like the soft recoil as I have Arthritis in both hands (I'm an Arthritic). I keep reading about Flame Cutting of the Top Strap with TG (plus it is a HOT powder) so I am thinking of changing powders and keep reading about Trail Boss being a soft recoiling powder, but, how accurate is Trail Boss in comparison to TG ?? I would be using Penn 158g TCBB "Cowboy Grade" bullets with the Trail Boss in 38 brass. Could I expect about the same accuracy with Trail Boss and lead as I get with TG and the Speer #4207 TMJ (7 shots rested in .775", Iron sights @ 7 yards). The only 2 things I do now is shoot the plate rack at 10 yards, and shoot groups on paper (rested and standing). I was thinking about going back to using BullsEye but thought I would check out Trail Boss first and see what ya'll thought of it. Thanks.

m&p45acp10+1 · November 30, 2018, 08:58 AM

I use it a lot in .38 Special. I use it with cast lead 158 grain bullets. Point of impact, and point of aim lines up well in all of the guns I shoot them out of.

Avoid using it with full wad cutters. In load development with it using those I had several squibs. It just does not give it enough case capacity to push them hard enough.

I have shot them out of a model 67, a model 28, a model 686, a Colt Trooper Mark 3, an RIA 206, and a Taurus 85. It shoots extra clean. Case fill is great as well. I used some jacketed, and plated, and they shot good enough. I cast my own lead so I shoot almost all lead.

Real Gun · November 30, 2018, 10:04 AM

You will be going from the 38 load most difficult to see before placing a bullet for seating to the powder most easily viewed. I use TB in 38 but with a 125 grain bullet. I have loaded some 158 RNFP but beefed up a bit to maintain decent velocity. Probably won't reorder that bullet and will use 158 only in 357 Magnum. I use your very same Penn bullet with Trailboss in my 357 Lightning rifle, because they uniquely feed very reliably with that TC shape without a leading band. However, a better supplier experience is with Missouri Bullet's TC Zinger in 140 hard cast, coated. The rifle likes those too, but with a slightly higher weight powder charge.

Some comments about your premise...I never shoot from a rest...it's not a rifle, and I never judge accuracy as close as "7 yards". The target is a blur, but I shoot at 50 feet when wanting to test accuracy and, at the same time, challenge my shooting skill. 25 yards is beyond what I can see to do anything satisfying. I focus on the front sight and hope for the best, accepting that I am not shooting a precision rifle.

LE-28 · November 30, 2018, 06:53 PM

The flame cutting on your frame is a part of nature. It will cut in so far and work harden and stop doing anymore damage.
I use Titegroup religiously with two of my revolvers and the flame cutting is no worse on them than it is with my other revolvers that I use other powders in.

I wouldn't worry to much about it. Flame cutting will reach a certain point with any powder and just stop getting any worse. It's going to happen with any powder you use.

rclark · December 1, 2018, 01:34 PM

Flame cutting takes lots of pressure to be significant. Even then, from what I read it goes only so far and that's that. .38 special pressures aren't going to be an issue. TG works fine, but I don't use it because it seems to burn hotter than other powders. That said, nothing wrong with Trail Boss loads. No experience with .38s, but did test in .357 cases with 158g SWCs. Was ok, but nothing special. At 7 - 10 yards though, just about any appropriate powder should give you good groups. Not until I get out to 15-25Y do I start to notice a difference. I usually start at 15Y and if I like what I see, retest at 25Y. As for bullets, I standardized on 158g SWCs for all my .38/.357 loads.

AzShooter · December 1, 2018, 02:11 PM

I love Trail Boss in my .38s. Low recoil and it's a clean powder. Accuracy is very good once you get the right load. I don't remember what my load was, I've stopped shooting centerfire guns. I think it was about 4 grains but don't just duplicate that.

It's a very large flack but meter's well.

52_and_done · December 5, 2018, 05:23 PM

Thank you all for your comments, I appreciate it very much. I've been off line for a few days due to getting 8" in our last snow storm here in Minnesota and loosing my internet (DSL), so that's why I have been quiet.

The main reason I have been checking accuracy at 7 yards is because of my eyesight starting to go South on me. I used to be able to go to the 50 yard marker to check my POI, but that was in the years before 1990 when I was still active in IPSC down in Arizona. I will try 15 yards though and see what transpires, but at 25 yards I get closer to shotgun patterns than anything else on a 8x8" paper target

. I just can't see the target that well anymore, but still Love to shoot (I used to shoot prairie dogs at 50 yrds on a regular basis

, but not anymore

).

I've never noticed flame cutting before in 38spl (and I have ran 10's of thousands of my 5g bullseye/158g RNL IPSC loads thru my 6" model 66 Smith back in the 70"s) so was just a bit concerned when I read about flame cutting with TiteGroup, but I have read all ya'lls comments on that matter and feel a bit more relieved now. Thank You all very much.

November 30, 2018, 03:42 AM	#1
52_and_done Member Join Date: September 14, 2018 Posts: 19	38spl and Trail Boss loads The gun is a Taurus 4" model 66 7-shot, I have been using TG as my powder and load 3.6g of it under a 158g Speer #4207 TMJ bullet, and like the soft recoil as I have Arthritis in both hands (I'm an Arthritic). I keep reading about Flame Cutting of the Top Strap with TG (plus it is a HOT powder) so I am thinking of changing powders and keep reading about Trail Boss being a soft recoiling powder, but, how accurate is Trail Boss in comparison to TG ?? I would be using Penn 158g TCBB "Cowboy Grade" bullets with the Trail Boss in 38 brass. Could I expect about the same accuracy with Trail Boss and lead as I get with TG and the Speer #4207 TMJ (7 shots rested in .775", Iron sights @ 7 yards). The only 2 things I do now is shoot the plate rack at 10 yards, and shoot groups on paper (rested and standing). I was thinking about going back to using BullsEye but thought I would check out Trail Boss first and see what ya'll thought of it. Thanks.

November 30, 2018, 08:58 AM	#2
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I use it a lot in .38 Special. I use it with cast lead 158 grain bullets. Point of impact, and point of aim lines up well in all of the guns I shoot them out of. Avoid using it with full wad cutters. In load development with it using those I had several squibs. It just does not give it enough case capacity to push them hard enough. I have shot them out of a model 67, a model 28, a model 686, a Colt Trooper Mark 3, an RIA 206, and a Taurus 85. It shoots extra clean. Case fill is great as well. I used some jacketed, and plated, and they shot good enough. I cast my own lead so I shoot almost all lead. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

November 30, 2018, 10:04 AM	#3
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	You will be going from the 38 load most difficult to see before placing a bullet for seating to the powder most easily viewed. I use TB in 38 but with a 125 grain bullet. I have loaded some 158 RNFP but beefed up a bit to maintain decent velocity. Probably won't reorder that bullet and will use 158 only in 357 Magnum. I use your very same Penn bullet with Trailboss in my 357 Lightning rifle, because they uniquely feed very reliably with that TC shape without a leading band. However, a better supplier experience is with Missouri Bullet's TC Zinger in 140 hard cast, coated. The rifle likes those too, but with a slightly higher weight powder charge. Some comments about your premise...I never shoot from a rest...it's not a rifle, and I never judge accuracy as close as "7 yards". The target is a blur, but I shoot at 50 feet when wanting to test accuracy and, at the same time, challenge my shooting skill. 25 yards is beyond what I can see to do anything satisfying. I focus on the front sight and hope for the best, accepting that I am not shooting a precision rifle. __________________ Not an expert, just a reporter.

December 1, 2018, 01:34 PM	#5
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,619	Flame cutting takes lots of pressure to be significant. Even then, from what I read it goes only so far and that's that. .38 special pressures aren't going to be an issue. TG works fine, but I don't use it because it seems to burn hotter than other powders. That said, nothing wrong with Trail Boss loads. No experience with .38s, but did test in .357 cases with 158g SWCs. Was ok, but nothing special. At 7 - 10 yards though, just about any appropriate powder should give you good groups. Not until I get out to 15-25Y do I start to notice a difference. I usually start at 15Y and if I like what I see, retest at 25Y. As for bullets, I standardized on 158g SWCs for all my .38/.357 loads. __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king.

December 5, 2018, 05:23 PM	#7
52_and_done Member Join Date: September 14, 2018 Posts: 19	Thank you all for your comments, I appreciate it very much. I've been off line for a few days due to getting 8" in our last snow storm here in Minnesota and loosing my internet (DSL), so that's why I have been quiet. The main reason I have been checking accuracy at 7 yards is because of my eyesight starting to go South on me. I used to be able to go to the 50 yard marker to check my POI, but that was in the years before 1990 when I was still active in IPSC down in Arizona. I will try 15 yards though and see what transpires, but at 25 yards I get closer to shotgun patterns than anything else on a 8x8" paper target . I just can't see the target that well anymore, but still Love to shoot (I used to shoot prairie dogs at 50 yrds on a regular basis, but not anymore). I've never noticed flame cutting before in 38spl (and I have ran 10's of thousands of my 5g bullseye/158g RNL IPSC loads thru my 6" model 66 Smith back in the 70"s) so was just a bit concerned when I read about flame cutting with TiteGroup, but I have read all ya'lls comments on that matter and feel a bit more relieved now. Thank You all very much.

November 30, 2018, 06:53 PM	#4
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	The flame cutting on your frame is a part of nature. It will cut in so far and work harden and stop doing anymore damage. I use Titegroup religiously with two of my revolvers and the flame cutting is no worse on them than it is with my other revolvers that I use other powders in. I wouldn't worry to much about it. Flame cutting will reach a certain point with any powder and just stop getting any worse. It's going to happen with any powder you use.

December 1, 2018, 02:11 PM	#6
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	I love Trail Boss in my .38s. Low recoil and it's a clean powder. Accuracy is very good once you get the right load. I don't remember what my load was, I've stopped shooting centerfire guns. I think it was about 4 grains but don't just duplicate that. It's a very large flack but meter's well.

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