Need some help with clarification. v. Fl law

Dr_Rich · March 10, 2011, 12:59 PM

Last weekend I was out at my buddies place doing a little target shooting with my dad. This place is 1.5 miles (as the crow flys) from the nearest paved road. Its County, not city. We have a 6' berm and Chris (buddy) had a box blade on a tractor and dug down 6" to 8" and built the berm up from there. So we're in fact, shooting downward slightly.

Anyway. Too much detail. Heres the story.

My dad and I are out shooting the 22's having a great time. About an hour goes by and Chris come over and we're just taking a break BSing about stuff. A few minutes later Chris' kids come over (9 and 15) and I ask Chris if maybe his kids would like to do a little shooting. So we get the kids all set up on the bench rests and they get their ear plugs in and set. The pull chairs up to the bench and start to take aim.

Chris looks over at me and says "What was the cops name from last weekend?" I couldn't recall his name. So I turned my attention back to his boy who was on my gun.

[The cop Chris was referring to was very nice. He came up while we were shooting the week before just to make sure everything was safe and that we weren't being stupid. He then stood around for the next 30 minutes swapping stories. Cool guy.]

So, CJ takes a shot. Starts to rack the bolt when I see Chris out of the corner of my eye take a step towards his gate. I look around and I see a sheriffs car pulling up. I turn back to his son and tell him to put the safety on and hang on for a minute. I go to take my ear plugs out and I hear

"PUT THE WEAPONS DOWN AND COME OUT FROM BEHIND THE TRUCK WITH YOUR HANDS UP!!"

I take my plugs out and look at Chris who is now by the front of my truck and he's smiling. So I think "Ok, its out buddy from last week and he's just having some fun with us." So I start walking up with Chris...Look up to the gate and the Sheriff...

Get this...is almost FALLING out of his car PULLING HIS GUN ON US!! This is NOT the same deputy. Chris looks at him and asks "Are you serious?!" and he replies "I'M DEAD SERIOUS!! GET YOUR HANDS UP!!"

Of course, Chris gets his hands up...but he's also informing the deputy of what we're doing and that he is over reacting. And about that time Chris' kids come around my truck and up to Chris. I think this is the point when it finally downed on the deputy that things were not as serious as he once thought. I mean, its not like we were ducking and diving with automatic weapons. We were just having a little target practice with kids.

So now the deputy starts in on how what we're doing is unsafe and what if someone slips, falls and pulls a trigger. Of if we hit a rock and theres a ricochet and what about the houses on the other side of the woods down range.

I could go in to detail about how there are no houses on the other side of the woods. Or the bench rests or the fact that my gun is bolt action and my dads stove pipes so much, I can actually unload 10 rounds faster with my bolt action. But, I'm not going there.

Moral of the story is.

The deputy said we cannot shoot out here and quoted Fl Statute "790" and said “its within 1,000 feet of a person or building. That’s Florida law”

Heres the part were I start to get a little upset.

I canNOT find anything is any statute that says we can't shoot there. Other than, if were were shooting FROM the truck or near a school.

790.15: Except as provided in subsection (2) or subsection (3), any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or whosoever knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. This section does not apply to a person lawfully defending life or property or performing official duties requiring the discharge of a firearm or to a person discharging a firearm on public roads or properties expressly approved for hunting by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or Division of Forestry.
(2) Any occupant of any vehicle who knowingly and willfully discharges any firearm from the vehicle within 1,000 feet of any person commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

790.115: A person who exhibits any sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade, box cutter, or common pocketknife, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, in the presence of one or more persons in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner and not in lawful self-defense, at a school-sponsored event or on the grounds or facilities of any school, school bus, or school bus stop, or within 1,000 feet of the real property that comprises a public or private elementary school, middle school, or secondary school, during school hours or during the time of a sanctioned school activity, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

If someone could please point me to the section that says I cannot shoot my guns "within a 1,000 feet of a building/dwelling" without it being from my truck, or near a school. I would greatly appreciate it. And for what its worth, I'm not going to go hit the bee's next with a stick. I just want to know if that deputy was right or wrong. It would make me sleep better at night.

a.lol.cat · March 10, 2011, 03:36 PM

I'll pull out my FL Gun Ownership and Laws book when I get home and see if I can find anything. But on the face it seems like he's confusing some sort of 1000 ft school zone law. The new 7th edition just came out, it's a good book to have if you live in FL, used by some of the police for training.

http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/p/...-Book-7th.html

Dr_Rich · March 11, 2011, 03:35 PM

Awesome man, thanks. I'll have to see about getting my hands on this book.

DogoDon · March 11, 2011, 03:48 PM

I think the deputy was confused. I can't find any Florida statute along the lines of what he cited. You said this was on private property, correct? So it was not a "public place" under 790.15.

I'm curious, though. Is this a place that police cruisers regularly patrol? I'm just wondering how the deputy found you guys. Presumably he heard the shooting, but you said the place is about 1.5 miles from the nearest paved road. That's a long way for the sound of gun fire to travel. Is there a public dirt road that goes close to where you were shooting? I'm just trying to understand the whole scenario.

DD

Dr_Rich · March 11, 2011, 07:46 PM

Patrolling
Yes and no. They normally have 2 people out there from time to time. When I lived out there I'd see one drive by once every couple weeks. Normally they're just chasing 4wheelers or busting up people playing in mud pits. But they don't patrol like in a 'normal' urban/rural area.

The Area
The road that he lives on is a public road. But the ONLY people that drive it, is the neighbor and Smilie. The mail boxes are down the road, make the first right and they're at the end of that road. So its safe to say theres no traffic on this road. You know...theres a log just after smilies driveway so you couldn't drive down as far as we are, even if one wanted to.

Reason for him being there
But according to the deputy. Someone called because they counted "Over 150 rounds". We'd been out there for just about 2 hours by the time he showed up. I'll be honest. We prolly did that in the first 30 minutes of being there.

Heres an aerial map of the area. The neighbor marked on the map is directly across the street from where we shoot. They're outside hanging out in there yard when we're out shooting. They're of Latin decent and very nice. The father always comes out to see how we're doing and just to say hi. In fact, he even thought the cop was wrong as well as out of line.

The deputy said "You don't know if theres anyone living out there". Smilie kindly informed him that he's been 4wheeling out there and he knows for a fact that no one lives out there. Thats when the deputy dropped his vast knowledge of Fl statute 790.

The other two neighbors at the bottom of the photo are most likely the ones that called. Smilie has had nothing but problems with them since he moved there. But, thats not what I'm worried about at this point.

We're shooting along the red arrow. The "T" in shooting is about where we're shooting from. The log that blocks the road is between the "I" and "N".

Bonus, heres a close up of his yard. You can actually see his berm from a satellite photo...lol

Dr_Rich · March 12, 2011, 06:07 PM

UPDATE:

I sent an email to the lawyer who wrote that book lol cat mentioned.

Quote:

the deputy was totally wrong -- you should contact his supervisor, and make sure the problem does not reoccur. If there is not satisfaction -- you will need to begin a "formal" internal affaires complaint -- which requires a written statement and meeting at the sheriff's office with a proper investigator

jhg

I'm going to double check with the local laws here in town just to double check. I'm not really sure if I should go to the sheriffs dep just for fear of retaliation. But I'll ask my mother-in-law for further advice on that matter. She works for a defense attorney lol. But thanks for the heads up, again.

won-a-glock · March 12, 2011, 06:57 PM

Internal Affairs have changed from the days of Joe Friday into a generally non-objective organization, not dedicated to improving policing, but more often as a CYA for the organization and police union. One local IA group claims "98% 'non-sustained' results of complaints against officers. Ironically, one of these overtly brutal attacks on a citizen was 'not sustained' by IA even though there was video evidence. I hear too many stories from neighborhood officers who seem to get away with abuse of citizens with virtual impunity.

I'm not suggesting you not file a complaint with the errant officers supervisor, on the contrary, but expect nothing. Use that as a stepping stone to be able to say that you did.

Unless you get a sincere apology and knowledge the bad cop was retrained, consider filing a small claims suit against the officer. That's as good as it's going to get. It puts him and the department on the defensive. If everyone were to do this, we'd all end up with better policing organizations with cops that actually knew the law.

Don H · March 12, 2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by won-a-glock

Unless you get a sincere apology and knowledge the bad cop was retrained, consider filing a small claims suit against the officer.

What monetary damage was done by the deputy to justify a small claims action? In Florida:

Quote:

Small Claims is a term used to describe a procedure which simplifies the court process used for resolving civil disputes that involve relatively small amounts of money ($5,000 or less--excluding court costs, interest and/or attorney's fees, if applicable). Small Claims cases are heard in the civil division of the county court....If someone owes you money, and will not pay you or has your property and will not return it, you may be able to resolve the problem by taking your case to small claims.

GoOfY-FoOt · March 12, 2011, 09:12 PM

I'm guessing he is thinking of something along the lines of an infringment of liberties and the pursuit of happiness...Still rather frivolous, IMO...

**Aguila Blanca** · March 12, 2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

I'm guessing he is thinking of something along the lines of an infringment of liberties and the pursuit of happiness...Still rather frivolous, IMO...

You can't bring that type of suit in small claims court.

GoOfY-FoOt · March 12, 2011, 10:38 PM

Rich...I'm curious.
What were the approximate ages of both deputies?

Dr_Rich · March 13, 2011, 10:09 AM

I'm probably just going to let it go. I really don't think that anything good (for me) would come of this. What I'm going to try to do this week is get a letter from a lawyer saying that we can in fact shoot out there. And I spoke to my buddy last night and he made sure to let them know that the area is zoned as Agriculture. People can, and do hunted out here. So once I get a whatever I can for permission, we're going to go back at it.

As far as the age of each of the deputies. I would say the the first one was the younger of the two. But they were between 35 and 45. They were not rookies. I can't recall the rank of the first one, but the second one was a corporal. But I'm pretty sure they both held the same rank.

March 10, 2011, 12:59 PM	#1
Dr_Rich Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2011 Location: Gods waiting room. Posts: 103	Need some help with clarification. v. Fl law Last weekend I was out at my buddies place doing a little target shooting with my dad. This place is 1.5 miles (as the crow flys) from the nearest paved road. Its County, not city. We have a 6' berm and Chris (buddy) had a box blade on a tractor and dug down 6" to 8" and built the berm up from there. So we're in fact, shooting downward slightly. Anyway. Too much detail. Heres the story. My dad and I are out shooting the 22's having a great time. About an hour goes by and Chris come over and we're just taking a break BSing about stuff. A few minutes later Chris' kids come over (9 and 15) and I ask Chris if maybe his kids would like to do a little shooting. So we get the kids all set up on the bench rests and they get their ear plugs in and set. The pull chairs up to the bench and start to take aim. Chris looks over at me and says "What was the cops name from last weekend?" I couldn't recall his name. So I turned my attention back to his boy who was on my gun. [The cop Chris was referring to was very nice. He came up while we were shooting the week before just to make sure everything was safe and that we weren't being stupid. He then stood around for the next 30 minutes swapping stories. Cool guy.] So, CJ takes a shot. Starts to rack the bolt when I see Chris out of the corner of my eye take a step towards his gate. I look around and I see a sheriffs car pulling up. I turn back to his son and tell him to put the safety on and hang on for a minute. I go to take my ear plugs out and I hear "PUT THE WEAPONS DOWN AND COME OUT FROM BEHIND THE TRUCK WITH YOUR HANDS UP!!" I take my plugs out and look at Chris who is now by the front of my truck and he's smiling. So I think "Ok, its out buddy from last week and he's just having some fun with us." So I start walking up with Chris...Look up to the gate and the Sheriff... Get this...is almost FALLING out of his car PULLING HIS GUN ON US!! This is NOT the same deputy. Chris looks at him and asks "Are you serious?!" and he replies "I'M DEAD SERIOUS!! GET YOUR HANDS UP!!" Of course, Chris gets his hands up...but he's also informing the deputy of what we're doing and that he is over reacting. And about that time Chris' kids come around my truck and up to Chris. I think this is the point when it finally downed on the deputy that things were not as serious as he once thought. I mean, its not like we were ducking and diving with automatic weapons. We were just having a little target practice with kids. So now the deputy starts in on how what we're doing is unsafe and what if someone slips, falls and pulls a trigger. Of if we hit a rock and theres a ricochet and what about the houses on the other side of the woods down range. I could go in to detail about how there are no houses on the other side of the woods. Or the bench rests or the fact that my gun is bolt action and my dads stove pipes so much, I can actually unload 10 rounds faster with my bolt action. But, I'm not going there. Moral of the story is. The deputy said we cannot shoot out here and quoted Fl Statute "790" and said “its within 1,000 feet of a person or building. That’s Florida law” Heres the part were I start to get a little upset. I canNOT find anything is any statute that says we can't shoot there. Other than, if were were shooting FROM the truck or near a school. 790.15: Except as provided in subsection (2) or subsection (3), any person who knowingly discharges a firearm in any public place or on the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or whosoever knowingly discharges any firearm over the right-of-way of any paved public road, highway, or street or over any occupied premises is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083. This section does not apply to a person lawfully defending life or property or performing official duties requiring the discharge of a firearm or to a person discharging a firearm on public roads or properties expressly approved for hunting by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or Division of Forestry. (2) Any occupant of any vehicle who knowingly and willfully discharges any firearm from the vehicle within 1,000 feet of any person commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. 790.115: A person who exhibits any sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, destructive device, or other weapon as defined in s. 790.001(13), including a razor blade, box cutter, or common pocketknife, except as authorized in support of school-sanctioned activities, in the presence of one or more persons in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner and not in lawful self-defense, at a school-sponsored event or on the grounds or facilities of any school, school bus, or school bus stop, or within 1,000 feet of the real property that comprises a public or private elementary school, middle school, or secondary school, during school hours or during the time of a sanctioned school activity, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. If someone could please point me to the section that says I cannot shoot my guns "within a 1,000 feet of a building/dwelling" without it being from my truck, or near a school. I would greatly appreciate it. And for what its worth, I'm not going to go hit the bee's next with a stick. I just want to know if that deputy was right or wrong. It would make me sleep better at night.

March 12, 2011, 06:57 PM	#7
won-a-glock Member Join Date: April 30, 2010 Location: 'sub-urban' to rural desert Posts: 64	Forget Internal Affairs Internal Affairs have changed from the days of Joe Friday into a generally non-objective organization, not dedicated to improving policing, but more often as a CYA for the organization and police union. One local IA group claims "98% 'non-sustained' results of complaints against officers. Ironically, one of these overtly brutal attacks on a citizen was 'not sustained' by IA even though there was video evidence. I hear too many stories from neighborhood officers who seem to get away with abuse of citizens with virtual impunity. I'm not suggesting you not file a complaint with the errant officers supervisor, on the contrary, but expect nothing. Use that as a stepping stone to be able to say that you did. Unless you get a sincere apology and knowledge the bad cop was retrained, consider filing a small claims suit against the officer. That's as good as it's going to get. It puts him and the department on the defensive. If everyone were to do this, we'd all end up with better policing organizations with cops that actually knew the law.

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March 10, 2011, 03:36 PM	#2
a.lol.cat Member Join Date: December 14, 2010 Location: Da Interwebz Posts: 69	I'll pull out my FL Gun Ownership and Laws book when I get home and see if I can find anything. But on the face it seems like he's confusing some sort of 1000 ft school zone law. The new 7th edition just came out, it's a good book to have if you live in FL, used by some of the police for training. http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/p/...-Book-7th.html

March 11, 2011, 03:35 PM	#3
Dr_Rich Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2011 Location: Gods waiting room. Posts: 103	Awesome man, thanks. I'll have to see about getting my hands on this book.

March 11, 2011, 03:48 PM	#4
DogoDon Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 368	I think the deputy was confused. I can't find any Florida statute along the lines of what he cited. You said this was on private property, correct? So it was not a "public place" under 790.15. I'm curious, though. Is this a place that police cruisers regularly patrol? I'm just wondering how the deputy found you guys. Presumably he heard the shooting, but you said the place is about 1.5 miles from the nearest paved road. That's a long way for the sound of gun fire to travel. Is there a public dirt road that goes close to where you were shooting? I'm just trying to understand the whole scenario. DD

March 11, 2011, 07:46 PM	#5
Dr_Rich Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2011 Location: Gods waiting room. Posts: 103	Patrolling Yes and no. They normally have 2 people out there from time to time. When I lived out there I'd see one drive by once every couple weeks. Normally they're just chasing 4wheelers or busting up people playing in mud pits. But they don't patrol like in a 'normal' urban/rural area. The Area The road that he lives on is a public road. But the ONLY people that drive it, is the neighbor and Smilie. The mail boxes are down the road, make the first right and they're at the end of that road. So its safe to say theres no traffic on this road. You know...theres a log just after smilies driveway so you couldn't drive down as far as we are, even if one wanted to. Reason for him being there But according to the deputy. Someone called because they counted "Over 150 rounds". We'd been out there for just about 2 hours by the time he showed up. I'll be honest. We prolly did that in the first 30 minutes of being there. Heres an aerial map of the area. The neighbor marked on the map is directly across the street from where we shoot. They're outside hanging out in there yard when we're out shooting. They're of Latin decent and very nice. The father always comes out to see how we're doing and just to say hi. In fact, he even thought the cop was wrong as well as out of line. The deputy said "You don't know if theres anyone living out there". Smilie kindly informed him that he's been 4wheeling out there and he knows for a fact that no one lives out there. Thats when the deputy dropped his vast knowledge of Fl statute 790. The other two neighbors at the bottom of the photo are most likely the ones that called. Smilie has had nothing but problems with them since he moved there. But, thats not what I'm worried about at this point. We're shooting along the red arrow. The "T" in shooting is about where we're shooting from. The log that blocks the road is between the "I" and "N". Bonus, heres a close up of his yard. You can actually see his berm from a satellite photo...lol

March 12, 2011, 09:12 PM	#9
GoOfY-FoOt Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2011 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 463	I'm guessing he is thinking of something along the lines of an infringment of liberties and the pursuit of happiness...Still rather frivolous, IMO...

March 12, 2011, 10:38 PM	#11
GoOfY-FoOt Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2011 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 463	Rich...I'm curious. What were the approximate ages of both deputies?

March 13, 2011, 10:09 AM	#12
Dr_Rich Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2011 Location: Gods waiting room. Posts: 103	I'm probably just going to let it go. I really don't think that anything good (for me) would come of this. What I'm going to try to do this week is get a letter from a lawyer saying that we can in fact shoot out there. And I spoke to my buddy last night and he made sure to let them know that the area is zoned as Agriculture. People can, and do hunted out here. So once I get a whatever I can for permission, we're going to go back at it. As far as the age of each of the deputies. I would say the the first one was the younger of the two. But they were between 35 and 45. They were not rookies. I can't recall the rank of the first one, but the second one was a corporal. But I'm pretty sure they both held the same rank.