Does this revolver butt look like a....

Pond, James Pond · January 23, 2020, 04:07 AM

..."new" K frame butt or an "old" K frame butt?

As the title split title suggests. I want to know if the diagram below, of an Astra revolver like mine, looks like the butt of an "old" or "new" K frame butt?

Already had some help narrowing my search, but this is the final step.
With this info, I can order.

Targa · January 23, 2020, 01:28 PM

Its a round butt so it would be the newer frame. Someone correct me if I am wrong, I don't know if there any exceptions to that.

Driftwood Johnson · January 23, 2020, 03:12 PM

Howdy

That is not a K frame. It is a J frame. Easily identified by the coil style main spring and the elongated trigger guard. A J frame is smaller than a K frame.

Here are a couple of K frames. The one at the top is pretty much a traditional K frame 'square butt'. The specific revolver is a Model 17-3 that was made in 1975. That is the way S&W had been making revolver grips for many years. At the bottom of the photo is the frame of a Model 617-6. This one was made in 2003. It has what is generally known as a 'round' butt. I doubt Smith has changed the design of their round butts a whole in the intervening years.

Here are the grips for the square butt Model 17. This style of grip is known as the Magna style grip.

This is the butt ugly rubber grip that came with the Model 617. Sorry, I don't have a photo of how the metal grip fits inside the rubber grip, it is a one piece grip. The stirrup and screw at the bottom snug the metal grip into the rubber grip.

Not a K frame, this is an L frame Model 686. Of quite recent (2015) vintage. Although the cylinder area of the frame is slightly larger than a K frame, the grip shape is pretty much the same as a K frame grip. This photo shows how the butt ugly two piece rubber grips surround the round butt.

Does this help?

Carmady · January 23, 2020, 03:21 PM

Quote:

That is not a K frame. It is a J frame.

It might be neither. I believe the gun in the OP is an Astra, not a S&W.

Pond, James Pond · January 23, 2020, 03:53 PM

Quote:

I believe the gun in the OP is an Astra, not a S&W.

Yes. And my mistake for not being clearer. My revolver is an Astra 680, 6-shot .38spl.

I want to replace the grip and the consensus is the Astra is a K-frame sized S&W clone of sorts.

@ Driftwood
I hope you don’t feel your detailed input has been wasted! There’s a lot of info there that is great to know and I think it can help me overall.

Plus revolver pics. Need I say more?

However, in the case of my present query, I’m likely to be ordering one Pachmayr and 2 Hogues in the hope that some fit and make the gun more controllable.

Hence why I need to id the closest S&W version as it’s these grips I will buy.

zoo · January 23, 2020, 03:55 PM

Exhibit A, Astra medallion on wooden grip in photo.

walnut1704 · January 23, 2020, 05:26 PM

I'm not sure that there's a difference between the old and new K frame round butts, but given that the Astra is probably the same vintage as the older models I'd guess that way.

Or it could be neither. You should probably ask this question over at the S&W forum.

walnut1704 · January 23, 2020, 05:28 PM

From the Altamont site...

"The Smith and Wesson K-Frame revolver family are the iconic American double action revolvers. They were the most important platform for the development of all of Smith & Wesson's line of revolvers. The first K-Frame was introduced in 1899 and came, from the beginning, in both round butt and square butt configurations. These revolvers were used in both World Wars and were particularly popular with the English in World War II, where Smith produced 568,204 revolvers for the British armed forces. While there have been many changes in the mechanism or models, Smith has been careful to maintain frame consistency--and grip interchangeability. From the beginning, most of the K-frame revolvers were square frames. Today, most of the K frames produced are round butts. (For a superb, detailed history of Smith revolvers--and more--go to Roy Jinks, History of Smith and Wesson. Find it. You'll like it.)

K and L frames are the same as far as grips are concerned."

mk70ss · January 23, 2020, 08:04 PM

It’s an Astra revolver, not even a S&W

105kw · January 23, 2020, 08:39 PM

Speaking from a little experience, they don't interchange between Astra and Smith & Wesson.
I bought a Model 15 Smith once, that someone somehow got a set of Astra grips onto. They aren't even close to they same dimensions.

Pond, James Pond · January 24, 2020, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Speaking from a little experience, they don't interchange between Astra and Smith & Wesson.

Well, that’s not great news!

Useful. But not great.

Good grief: the lengths I’m gonna need to go to in order to get a snub I can comfortably do follow ups with...

357 Python · January 24, 2020, 09:46 AM

The round butt K-frame grips are not new as they have been around for nearly 4 decades. They used to be "only" on 2 - 2 1/2 inch snubbies but S&W decided a number of years ago to go with them for all the guns. I have a S&W 66 and a S&W 65 made in the early 1980s with them.

arquebus357 · January 24, 2020, 10:52 AM

Round Butt S&W frames start out as Square Butt frames. They are converted at the factory. That is, of course, unless some stinking Bubba takes it upon himself to do the conversion himself. (Hehehehehe)

That exploded view of the Astra shows the way cool adjustable trigger trigger pull adjustment mechanism. Thanks

January 23, 2020, 04:07 AM	#1
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Does this revolver butt look like a.... ..."new" K frame butt or an "old" K frame butt? As the title split title suggests. I want to know if the diagram below, of an Astra revolver like mine, looks like the butt of an "old" or "new" K frame butt? Already had some help narrowing my search, but this is the final step. With this info, I can order. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly. Last edited by Pond, James Pond; January 24, 2020 at 12:08 AM.

January 23, 2020, 01:28 PM	#2
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	Its a round butt so it would be the newer frame. Someone correct me if I am wrong, I don't know if there any exceptions to that. Last edited by Targa; January 23, 2020 at 01:41 PM.

January 23, 2020, 08:04 PM	#9
mk70ss Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,598	It’s an Astra revolver, not even a S&W __________________ Say when.....

January 24, 2020, 10:52 AM	#13
arquebus357 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2016 Location: Atlanta, Georgia area Posts: 455	Round Butt S&W frames start out as Square Butt frames. They are converted at the factory. That is, of course, unless some stinking Bubba takes it upon himself to do the conversion himself. (Hehehehehe) That exploded view of the Astra shows the way cool adjustable trigger trigger pull adjustment mechanism. Thanks Last edited by arquebus357; January 24, 2020 at 10:57 AM.

January 23, 2020, 03:12 PM	#3
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy That is not a K frame. It is a J frame. Easily identified by the coil style main spring and the elongated trigger guard. A J frame is smaller than a K frame. Here are a couple of K frames. The one at the top is pretty much a traditional K frame 'square butt'. The specific revolver is a Model 17-3 that was made in 1975. That is the way S&W had been making revolver grips for many years. At the bottom of the photo is the frame of a Model 617-6. This one was made in 2003. It has what is generally known as a 'round' butt. I doubt Smith has changed the design of their round butts a whole in the intervening years. Here are the grips for the square butt Model 17. This style of grip is known as the Magna style grip. This is the butt ugly rubber grip that came with the Model 617. Sorry, I don't have a photo of how the metal grip fits inside the rubber grip, it is a one piece grip. The stirrup and screw at the bottom snug the metal grip into the rubber grip. Not a K frame, this is an L frame Model 686. Of quite recent (2015) vintage. Although the cylinder area of the frame is slightly larger than a K frame, the grip shape is pretty much the same as a K frame grip. This photo shows how the butt ugly two piece rubber grips surround the round butt. Does this help?

January 23, 2020, 03:55 PM	#6
zoo member Join Date: October 2, 2019 Posts: 414	Exhibit A, Astra medallion on wooden grip in photo.

January 23, 2020, 05:26 PM	#7
walnut1704 Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Posts: 156	I'm not sure that there's a difference between the old and new K frame round butts, but given that the Astra is probably the same vintage as the older models I'd guess that way. Or it could be neither. You should probably ask this question over at the S&W forum.

January 23, 2020, 05:28 PM	#8
walnut1704 Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Posts: 156	From the Altamont site... "The Smith and Wesson K-Frame revolver family are the iconic American double action revolvers. They were the most important platform for the development of all of Smith & Wesson's line of revolvers. The first K-Frame was introduced in 1899 and came, from the beginning, in both round butt and square butt configurations. These revolvers were used in both World Wars and were particularly popular with the English in World War II, where Smith produced 568,204 revolvers for the British armed forces. While there have been many changes in the mechanism or models, Smith has been careful to maintain frame consistency--and grip interchangeability. From the beginning, most of the K-frame revolvers were square frames. Today, most of the K frames produced are round butts. (For a superb, detailed history of Smith revolvers--and more--go to Roy Jinks, History of Smith and Wesson. Find it. You'll like it.) K and L frames are the same as far as grips are concerned."

January 23, 2020, 08:39 PM	#10
105kw Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2017 Location: Columbia Basin Washington Posts: 414	Speaking from a little experience, they don't interchange between Astra and Smith & Wesson. I bought a Model 15 Smith once, that someone somehow got a set of Astra grips onto. They aren't even close to they same dimensions.

January 24, 2020, 09:46 AM	#12
357 Python Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 941	The round butt K-frame grips are not new as they have been around for nearly 4 decades. They used to be "only" on 2 - 2 1/2 inch snubbies but S&W decided a number of years ago to go with them for all the guns. I have a S&W 66 and a S&W 65 made in the early 1980s with them.