.45 LC bullet spin - Page 2

BBarn · January 3, 2020, 08:48 PM

Are these the standard custom dies (red box) or cowboy dies (brown box)? What do the sizing and expanding dies say on the die bodies?

ECM4 · January 3, 2020, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBarn

Are these the standard custom dies (red box) or cowboy dies (brown box)? What do the sizing and expanding dies say on the die bodies?

Standard red box. Sizing die says 45 colt and expanding die says 45 cal

BBarn · January 3, 2020, 11:08 PM

I just sized and expanded 8 cases with my set of Hornady Custom Dies (red box) like yours. I used 4 Starline cases and 4 Winchester (W-W) cases.

Using only my fingers, I then checked the fit of three different bullets into those cases. One of the bullets mic'd 0.451" and the other two mic'd 0.452". The 0.451" bullet would slip into and rotate in 2 of the Winchester cases, but would not slip into any of the other 6 cases. Neither of the 0.452" bullets would slide into the 8 cases.

Additionally, the 0.451" bullet would not slip into any of the cases after sizing but prior to expanding/belling.

So, as far as my set of Hornady dies, the expanding die is a bit too large to be used with the combination of 0.451" bullets and Winchester cases. Going to slightly larger 0.452" bullets seems to work OK with my set of Hornady dies.

But you are having the issue even with 0.452" bullets. The dies should "work" with your bullets and I'm sure you would like to use your existing cases. But as I suggested in an earlier post, 45 Colt brass does seem to vary more than some other calibers.

USSR · January 4, 2020, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Additionally, the 0.451" bullet would not slip into any of the cases after sizing but prior to expanding/belling.

Exactly as it should be.

Don

mikld · January 4, 2020, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECM4

I shouldn’t of said seat the bullet. I can’t seat it down all the way but it will go in far enough to sit there and not fall out. I did send the information to hornady and they sent me shipping labels to send my die set back for them to check it. Curious to see what they say.

How far will the bullet go in the case? Is there any force needed to seat the bullet with the press, feel any resistance, even slight? You may just be flaring/seating fine but crimping too much. Too heavy of a crimp can sometimes buckle the case slightly, easing neck tension...

FWIW, it is very difficult to diagnose a reloading problem via forum posting. Even when a reader has had a very similar problem, without the components and tools in hand it can all be just a WAG with a lot of "maybe its..." responses...

ECM4 · January 4, 2020, 03:08 PM

No force at all with the press. After seating the bullets when I backed off the crimp they still we’re able to spin then I shoved the bullet all the way down the case by pushing the bullet against my bench with very little force. ’just drop my dies off at fed ex to be sent back to hornady for them to check them.

ECM4 · January 18, 2020, 06:26 PM

Hornady had me send my die set back. They replaced the resizing die for free and just got it back today. They never said what was wrong. Just replaced the resizing die and measurements of resized cases are .003-.004 smaller than previous die.

USSR · January 18, 2020, 08:24 PM

Good deal, ECM4.

Don

**Unclenick** · January 19, 2020, 11:56 AM

Yes, that's good response. The other die was possibly geared toward the old 0.454" bullets that would have been authentic in cowboy days. It was mentioned earlier that some brass is thin. I've had dies that would resize most brands of .45 Auto just fine except for R-P which was thinner and quickly became work-hardened by resizing to the point it sprang back to diameter from any attempt to resize it. After maybe two reloads, the bullets would start falling in.

One problem that commonly occurs with tight crimps is that bending the case mouth inward leads to the brass behind it being lifted away from the bullet (see "overcrimped" example in the illustration below). The only die I know of that completely prevents that from occurring is Redding Profile Crimp die. It has a taper crimp shoulder that terminates in a roll crimp, so the taper holds the sides of the case against the bullet while the mouth is rolled inward. I recommend them, even though it means crimping separately from seating (a practice that generations of target shooters have found superior for accuracy to crimping and seating in one step).

You were correct in your earlier post that the flats on the inside jaws of a caliper make it impossible to get a good reading on small hole ID's. The error is to measure short. I've had them off by 0.002". If you want accurate measurements of hole diameters, inexpensive pin gauge sets will get you within 0.001" ±0.0002, depending on whether they are plus 0.002" or minus 0.002" gauges. You can buy sets of X grade pins in steps of 0.0001", but a 25 gauge set spanning ±0.0012" range centered around one value is about $215, but you need to want to gauge that size span pretty badly to spend that on it. The other thing you can do is buy either telescoping or ball-end small hole gauges. It takes some practice, but you can learn to adjust them so they just lightly, barely drag in a hole, and then pull them out and measure them with a thimble micrometer that has a 0.0001" Vernier scale or a digital one with 0.00005" resolution. This is more accurate than most people are able to use a dial caliper, even interpolating between graduations, and less expensive brands seem to work pretty well. The Vernier type in a 1 inch OD can be had for $17 from CDCO Tools, and the digital ones are as cheap as $30 there. These are not going to have the feel or absolute accuracy of Mitutoyo or Starret or other name-brands, but if they get you within about 0.00025", that is as close as anything the shooting world might require.

January 18, 2020, 08:24 PM	#33
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Good deal, ECM4. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

January 19, 2020, 11:56 AM	#34
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Yes, that's good response. The other die was possibly geared toward the old 0.454" bullets that would have been authentic in cowboy days. It was mentioned earlier that some brass is thin. I've had dies that would resize most brands of .45 Auto just fine except for R-P which was thinner and quickly became work-hardened by resizing to the point it sprang back to diameter from any attempt to resize it. After maybe two reloads, the bullets would start falling in. One problem that commonly occurs with tight crimps is that bending the case mouth inward leads to the brass behind it being lifted away from the bullet (see "overcrimped" example in the illustration below). The only die I know of that completely prevents that from occurring is Redding Profile Crimp die. It has a taper crimp shoulder that terminates in a roll crimp, so the taper holds the sides of the case against the bullet while the mouth is rolled inward. I recommend them, even though it means crimping separately from seating (a practice that generations of target shooters have found superior for accuracy to crimping and seating in one step). You were correct in your earlier post that the flats on the inside jaws of a caliper make it impossible to get a good reading on small hole ID's. The error is to measure short. I've had them off by 0.002". If you want accurate measurements of hole diameters, inexpensive pin gauge sets will get you within 0.001" ±0.0002, depending on whether they are plus 0.002" or minus 0.002" gauges. You can buy sets of X grade pins in steps of 0.0001", but a 25 gauge set spanning ±0.0012" range centered around one value is about $215, but you need to want to gauge that size span pretty badly to spend that on it. The other thing you can do is buy either telescoping or ball-end small hole gauges. It takes some practice, but you can learn to adjust them so they just lightly, barely drag in a hole, and then pull them out and measure them with a thimble micrometer that has a 0.0001" Vernier scale or a digital one with 0.00005" resolution. This is more accurate than most people are able to use a dial caliper, even interpolating between graduations, and less expensive brands seem to work pretty well. The Vernier type in a 1 inch OD can be had for $17 from CDCO Tools, and the digital ones are as cheap as $30 there. These are not going to have the feel or absolute accuracy of Mitutoyo or Starret or other name-brands, but if they get you within about 0.00025", that is as close as anything the shooting world might require. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 3, 2020, 08:48 PM	#26
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	Are these the standard custom dies (red box) or cowboy dies (brown box)? What do the sizing and expanding dies say on the die bodies?

January 3, 2020, 11:08 PM	#28
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	I just sized and expanded 8 cases with my set of Hornady Custom Dies (red box) like yours. I used 4 Starline cases and 4 Winchester (W-W) cases. Using only my fingers, I then checked the fit of three different bullets into those cases. One of the bullets mic'd 0.451" and the other two mic'd 0.452". The 0.451" bullet would slip into and rotate in 2 of the Winchester cases, but would not slip into any of the other 6 cases. Neither of the 0.452" bullets would slide into the 8 cases. Additionally, the 0.451" bullet would not slip into any of the cases after sizing but prior to expanding/belling. So, as far as my set of Hornady dies, the expanding die is a bit too large to be used with the combination of 0.451" bullets and Winchester cases. Going to slightly larger 0.452" bullets seems to work OK with my set of Hornady dies. But you are having the issue even with 0.452" bullets. The dies should "work" with your bullets and I'm sure you would like to use your existing cases. But as I suggested in an earlier post, 45 Colt brass does seem to vary more than some other calibers.

January 4, 2020, 03:08 PM	#31
ECM4 Member Join Date: February 18, 2019 Location: West Virginia Posts: 55	No force at all with the press. After seating the bullets when I backed off the crimp they still we’re able to spin then I shoved the bullet all the way down the case by pushing the bullet against my bench with very little force. ’just drop my dies off at fed ex to be sent back to hornady for them to check them.

January 18, 2020, 06:26 PM	#32
ECM4 Member Join Date: February 18, 2019 Location: West Virginia Posts: 55	Hornady had me send my die set back. They replaced the resizing die for free and just got it back today. They never said what was wrong. Just replaced the resizing die and measurements of resized cases are .003-.004 smaller than previous die.