Federal American Eagle 357 getting stuck in 686

BondoBob · May 27, 2020, 10:29 AM

Of course if you run a revolver too fast with too hot loads, the brass gets stuck in the cambers for moment. But I've noticed this ammo gets stuck in my 686 after firing just 7 rounds in succession.

Never have this problem firing much hotter loads in the 429 which is circa 1990.

The gun is clean. I'm wondering if it's something about Federal brass being just too bendy? Or, this newer 2019 model 686 having a slightly tighter bore or stickier metal composition? It takes a good 5 minutes for the brass and cylinder to cool enough for ejection.

Can anyone recommend a better lube for those chambers to prevent this? I've used hoppes and ballistol so far. Or just avoid Federal Ammo? Eventually I'll be handloading these, so any suggestions on components for that would also help.

Thanks,

Webleymkv · May 27, 2020, 12:19 PM

While that loading is stout and flattens it's primers in my revolvers, it's always ejected easily regardless of how fast or slow I shoot. How clean are the chambers of your revolver? A common reason for .357 Magnum ammo to stick in chambers is that there was previously a good amount of .38 Special ammo shot through the same gun. The .38's shorter cases leave carbon deposits that the .357 brass expands into. The combination of a tight spot in the chambers and high pressure Magnum ammo leads to sticky extraction.

51cskipper · May 27, 2020, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Can anyone recommend a better lube for those chambers to prevent this?

Remove all lube from the chambers

wild cat mccane · May 27, 2020, 01:10 PM

Unless it is AE Vital or Hyd Shok or AE 125gr JH, AE isn't loaded particularly hot...

Yeah. Interested if you shoot 38 in it and don't clean hard. Carbon ring can do this...

BondoBob · May 27, 2020, 01:42 PM

Webleymkv, That makes sense.

Very little 38spl was shot in it to my knowledge. It's a new gun. But I don't know how many 38s S&W fires it for QC testing. I only quickly cleaned it after purchase, my bad.

I'll really go at it clean the heck out of it and see what happens. So, no gun oil in the chambers after cleaning? I'll try that too. Have always lightly oiled everything after cleaning, but I'll give it a try.

I also notice this box of ammo may be over-crimped. They're a bit puffy below the crimp compared to other brands/rounds I've used.

FlyFish · May 27, 2020, 02:01 PM

Quote:

But I don't know how many 38s S&W fires it for QC testing.

I went on a very extensive tour of the S&W facility in Springfield some years back. We were told then, and I assume it's still the case now, that they fire 3 rounds in each new revolver as their final QC test. However, although I can't say for sure, I would think that a revolver chambered for .357 Mag would be tested with that cartridge and not .38 Spec. Semi-autos are tested by shooting one full magazine.

BondoBob · May 27, 2020, 02:21 PM

Hmm, now I'm thinking it's back to the ammo. I only put about 14 38spl through it before the 357s got stuck. I think I'll also grab another brand at about 1500fps and try that. I'll post back results.

wild cat mccane · May 27, 2020, 03:08 PM

Nice. Let us know.

Yeah. As the oil isn't lubricating a moving part, it's going to start to act as a gummy substance as it collects crud.

However, I think you're on the right path. One box of ammo is but nothing to cast dispersion on one brand /model.

Annoying though. Agreed.

tngonzo · May 27, 2020, 03:19 PM

My Blackhawk always had sticky cases with 38 special. I finally broke down and honed the chambers, but that's playing with fire for sure I believe.

USSR · May 27, 2020, 03:21 PM

BondoBob,

You DON'T lube the chambers!!!

Don

44caliberkid · May 27, 2020, 03:36 PM

I just this morning was shooting a Ruger Blackhawk 357 with very hot 125 gr. JHP handloads and a Colt SAA with Armscore 158 gr. FMJ 357's, and the brass fell out of both guns as I pointed them upward and turned the cylinder. Rapid firing magnums does not cause cases to stick. Chambers should be degreased and dry, not oiled. It's either the fouling from 38 Specials, or, being a 2019 (new) production Smith, it could have some rough chambers that need polishing. And American Eagles aren't a hot load.

BondoBob · May 27, 2020, 05:43 PM

Ok, no more Ballistol in the chambers. The rough bore in chambers makes sense. How would I go about polishing the chambers?

NoSecondBest · May 27, 2020, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Ok, no more Ballistol in the chambers. The rough bore in chambers makes sense. How would I go about polishing the chambers?

Send it back to SW, it's a warranty problem. Call them and they'll send a return ticket postage paid.

Hal · May 28, 2020, 03:38 AM

Quote:

How would I go about polishing the chambers?

Lap them.
I use any one of these most abrasive kinds of toothpaste:
https://www.williamsonperio.com/wp-c...ked-by-RDA.pdf

I smear it on a rag & just work it around in the chambers.

Then - just flush it under hot tap water long enough to really heat up the cylinder. Then use a blow dryer to dry & lube as normal.

I bought three new S&W revolvers since 1998 when I joined up here & found each one of them had both rough chambers & rough bores. Not only were the chambers a bit "sticky", but, the bores caused them to lead up when I shot lead bullets.

I'd avoid anything too aggressive - such as metal polish - for lapping. The idea isn't to remove anything, just round over the sharp edges.

Nanuk · May 28, 2020, 06:43 AM

Check and see if there are machine marks in the cylinder charge holes.

wild cat mccane · May 28, 2020, 09:24 AM

I wouldn't for a second do anything but send it back.

I sent in my new late 2019 686 for an issue of a cylinder not correctly rotating. Came back in 2 weeks just fine.

Why mess with it yourself? Best case it's something wrong and THEY know how to fix it.

stinkeypete · May 28, 2020, 09:38 AM

I sometimes take a fired .357 brass case That has not been resized and drill out the primer pocket and hot-glue a dowel extending from the back of the case. (In the unlikely case you have a .357 Maximum case, that’s a handy tool as well although it will take minor metalworking to make a tool that is longer than your .357 brass but a thousandth less than your cylinder depth.)

Move your tool in and out of each cylinder.

Insertion should feel roughly identical.
Friction should feel roughly identical.
You should not feel any obstructions or rings.
You shouldn’t feel any ridges or zipper like sounds when inserting and retracting.

It’s hard to describe how much is a factory problem, let’s assume the above variations are minor.

Put some bore paste on your tool and use it to polish your cylinders one at a time, cleaning and refreshing the tool with grit on each cylinder. Don’t get grit on your extractor Star or extractor rod!

Use your hands, not a power tool.

It’s always easier to sand some off than to sand it back on so go very slow, very easy, and remember you are just trying to polish smooth metal, not ream the cylinders! If you are spending more than a minute on a cylinder, that’s probably too much.

Clean away the grit thoroughly thoroughly, “oil” with proper lubricant, wipe the cylinders bone dry.

If the cylinders don’t appear mirror smooth, that’s a problem.

These little polishing steps are something I expect to do on every factory pistol. You can’t expect honed cylinders on a pistol unless you are paying for custom gunsmithing.

**44 AMP** · May 29, 2020, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Ok, no more Ballistol in the chambers. The rough bore in chambers makes sense. How would I go about polishing the chambers?

Quote:

Send it back to SW, it's a warranty problem. Call them and they'll send a return ticket postage paid.

First off, you oil the gun, all metal, including chambers and bore, when you are putting it away for weeks/months of storage. This is good.

REMOVE the oil from the bore and chambers before shooting. Use a dry patch(s) or mop for this.

The resaons brass sticks in the chamber are
Pressure too high
brass soft /inferior quality for the intended use
chamber is "rough" meaning it has a less than properly polished surface.
Debris of some kind in the chamber when fired

Any of these, or a combination of some or all of these will result in brass sticking in the chambers.

Clean thoroughly, including making sure there is no "crud ring" from firing .38s. Make sure the chambers (and bore) are free of oil. Test fire as normal to see if the problem has changed or gone away.

Try some different ammo and see if the problem is specific to one brand (or even one lot#) in your gun.

IF the problem persists, due to a roughness of the chamber finish, then, its decision time.

Gun is new, still under warranty, it should go back to S&W. CALL THEM, describe the problem, and follow their instructions for returning it.

OR go the do it yourself route, and risk A) going too far and B) VOIDING the warranty!

I would recommend NOT doing ANYTHING to the gun at this time. I know its difficult to wait, but if its under warranty, give S&W a chance to get it running right.

BondoBob · May 30, 2020, 10:12 AM

Thanks 44 AMP, that's crystal clear.

BondoBob · June 4, 2020, 09:44 AM

Well I think I figured out my problem. Gunk Rings in bores. I'm guessing this "New" revolver wasn't as "New" as I thought. Or, the few 38spl I fired were cheap and had that blue lube creating nasty gunk in the bores. Here's what it looks like after a 30 minute cleaning. Still can't get a spent 357 case in two of them.

Any suggestions on better cleaning products. Been using Hoppes and Ballistol.

wild cat mccane · June 5, 2020, 01:59 PM

Yep.

Just brush it better. Carbon build up.

Kreyzhorse · June 5, 2020, 04:28 PM

There is no reason to lube the chambers. Just collects junk.

gwpercle · June 5, 2020, 07:28 PM

More elbow grease with the brush and Hoppes .

My cleaner of choice is an aggressive mix called Ed's Red Bore Cleaner , Brownell's now sells it or you can search the term Ed's Red Bore Cleaner Recipe and mix it up yourself .

Gary

cw308 · June 8, 2020, 08:41 AM

For cleaning burn marks ( carbon ) from inside the cylinder Leadaway takes it out like butter . On a blued firearm it will remove the bluing , only on bare metal or stainless . For SS guns with burn marks on the face of the cylinder Leadaway removes it with no effort at all . Midway sells them .
PS: I shoot benchrest 308 and reload my own , Federal brass is thicked then most , are you only having this problem with Federal?

Chris

stinkeypete · June 8, 2020, 09:47 AM

Let time and chemistry be your friend. I would put some cotton balls soaked in brake cleaner in there... OUTDOORS where there is great ventilation... and come at that with a spent casing first. Use those sharp edges to attack the crud ring before using anything like a brush.

Maybe a buddy from this chat room can send you a .357 Maximum case to use as a cleaning tool? It will reach deeper, of course.

May 27, 2020, 10:29 AM	#1
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 162	Federal American Eagle 357 getting stuck in 686 Of course if you run a revolver too fast with too hot loads, the brass gets stuck in the cambers for moment. But I've noticed this ammo gets stuck in my 686 after firing just 7 rounds in succession. Never have this problem firing much hotter loads in the 429 which is circa 1990. The gun is clean. I'm wondering if it's something about Federal brass being just too bendy? Or, this newer 2019 model 686 having a slightly tighter bore or stickier metal composition? It takes a good 5 minutes for the brass and cylinder to cool enough for ejection. Can anyone recommend a better lube for those chambers to prevent this? I've used hoppes and ballistol so far. Or just avoid Federal Ammo? Eventually I'll be handloading these, so any suggestions on components for that would also help. Thanks, Last edited by BondoBob; May 27, 2020 at 01:39 PM.

May 27, 2020, 12:19 PM	#2
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,258	While that loading is stout and flattens it's primers in my revolvers, it's always ejected easily regardless of how fast or slow I shoot. How clean are the chambers of your revolver? A common reason for .357 Magnum ammo to stick in chambers is that there was previously a good amount of .38 Special ammo shot through the same gun. The .38's shorter cases leave carbon deposits that the .357 brass expands into. The combination of a tight spot in the chambers and high pressure Magnum ammo leads to sticky extraction. __________________ Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar

May 27, 2020, 01:42 PM	#5
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 162	Webleymkv, That makes sense. Very little 38spl was shot in it to my knowledge. It's a new gun. But I don't know how many 38s S&W fires it for QC testing. I only quickly cleaned it after purchase, my bad. I'll really go at it clean the heck out of it and see what happens. So, no gun oil in the chambers after cleaning? I'll try that too. Have always lightly oiled everything after cleaning, but I'll give it a try. I also notice this box of ammo may be over-crimped. They're a bit puffy below the crimp compared to other brands/rounds I've used. Last edited by BondoBob; May 27, 2020 at 01:48 PM.

May 27, 2020, 03:19 PM	#9
tngonzo Junior Member Join Date: May 26, 2020 Posts: 4	My Blackhawk always had sticky cases with 38 special. I finally broke down and honed the chambers, but that's playing with fire for sure I believe. Last edited by tngonzo; May 27, 2020 at 03:44 PM.

May 27, 2020, 03:21 PM	#10
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,264	BondoBob, You DON'T lube the chambers!!! Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

May 27, 2020, 01:10 PM	#4
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 2,128	Unless it is AE Vital or Hyd Shok or AE 125gr JH, AE isn't loaded particularly hot... Yeah. Interested if you shoot 38 in it and don't clean hard. Carbon ring can do this...

May 27, 2020, 02:21 PM	#7
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 162	Hmm, now I'm thinking it's back to the ammo. I only put about 14 38spl through it before the 357s got stuck. I think I'll also grab another brand at about 1500fps and try that. I'll post back results.

May 27, 2020, 03:08 PM	#8
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 2,128	Nice. Let us know. Yeah. As the oil isn't lubricating a moving part, it's going to start to act as a gummy substance as it collects crud. However, I think you're on the right path. One box of ammo is but nothing to cast dispersion on one brand /model. Annoying though. Agreed.

May 27, 2020, 03:36 PM	#11
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 568	I just this morning was shooting a Ruger Blackhawk 357 with very hot 125 gr. JHP handloads and a Colt SAA with Armscore 158 gr. FMJ 357's, and the brass fell out of both guns as I pointed them upward and turned the cylinder. Rapid firing magnums does not cause cases to stick. Chambers should be degreased and dry, not oiled. It's either the fouling from 38 Specials, or, being a 2019 (new) production Smith, it could have some rough chambers that need polishing. And American Eagles aren't a hot load.

May 27, 2020, 05:43 PM	#12
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 162	Ok, no more Ballistol in the chambers. The rough bore in chambers makes sense. How would I go about polishing the chambers?

May 28, 2020, 06:43 AM	#15
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 2,974	Check and see if there are machine marks in the cylinder charge holes. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

May 28, 2020, 09:24 AM	#16
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 2,128	I wouldn't for a second do anything but send it back. I sent in my new late 2019 686 for an issue of a cylinder not correctly rotating. Came back in 2 weeks just fine. Why mess with it yourself? Best case it's something wrong and THEY know how to fix it.

May 28, 2020, 09:38 AM	#17
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 751	I sometimes take a fired .357 brass case That has not been resized and drill out the primer pocket and hot-glue a dowel extending from the back of the case. (In the unlikely case you have a .357 Maximum case, that’s a handy tool as well although it will take minor metalworking to make a tool that is longer than your .357 brass but a thousandth less than your cylinder depth.) Move your tool in and out of each cylinder. Insertion should feel roughly identical. Friction should feel roughly identical. You should not feel any obstructions or rings. You shouldn’t feel any ridges or zipper like sounds when inserting and retracting. It’s hard to describe how much is a factory problem, let’s assume the above variations are minor. Put some bore paste on your tool and use it to polish your cylinders one at a time, cleaning and refreshing the tool with grit on each cylinder. Don’t get grit on your extractor Star or extractor rod! Use your hands, not a power tool. It’s always easier to sand some off than to sand it back on so go very slow, very easy, and remember you are just trying to polish smooth metal, not ream the cylinders! If you are spending more than a minute on a cylinder, that’s probably too much. Clean away the grit thoroughly thoroughly, “oil” with proper lubricant, wipe the cylinders bone dry. If the cylinders don’t appear mirror smooth, that’s a problem. These little polishing steps are something I expect to do on every factory pistol. You can’t expect honed cylinders on a pistol unless you are paying for custom gunsmithing. Last edited by stinkeypete; May 28, 2020 at 04:39 PM.

May 30, 2020, 10:12 AM	#19
BondoBob Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2020 Posts: 162	Thanks 44 AMP, that's crystal clear.

June 5, 2020, 01:59 PM	#21
wild cat mccane Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 2,128	Yep. Just brush it better. Carbon build up.

June 5, 2020, 04:28 PM	#22
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,399	There is no reason to lube the chambers. Just collects junk. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

June 5, 2020, 07:28 PM	#23
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,225	More elbow grease with the brush and Hoppes . My cleaner of choice is an aggressive mix called Ed's Red Bore Cleaner , Brownell's now sells it or you can search the term Ed's Red Bore Cleaner Recipe and mix it up yourself . Gary

June 8, 2020, 08:41 AM	#24
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	For cleaning burn marks ( carbon ) from inside the cylinder Leadaway takes it out like butter . On a blued firearm it will remove the bluing , only on bare metal or stainless . For SS guns with burn marks on the face of the cylinder Leadaway removes it with no effort at all . Midway sells them . PS: I shoot benchrest 308 and reload my own , Federal brass is thicked then most , are you only having this problem with Federal? Chris Last edited by cw308; June 8, 2020 at 08:51 AM.

June 8, 2020, 09:47 AM	#25
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 751	Let time and chemistry be your friend. I would put some cotton balls soaked in brake cleaner in there... OUTDOORS where there is great ventilation... and come at that with a spent casing first. Use those sharp edges to attack the crud ring before using anything like a brush. Maybe a buddy from this chat room can send you a .357 Maximum case to use as a cleaning tool? It will reach deeper, of course.

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