The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 23, 2019, 07:30 AM   #26
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 9,492
Discussions evolve. That's the reality of a discussion forum versus Instagram. I don't think your thread has lost it's value.

https://youtu.be/y6NxWID2r6E

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is online now  
Old May 23, 2019, 11:52 AM   #27
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 857
Quote:
wild cat mccane
Millennial? Just curious as your last post lacks scale and perspective.

It is has been a great discussion and your pictures sparked it. They are great pictures.

Maybe next time just post them on a gallery instead of a discussion forum if you do not want discussion.

Quote:
Welcome to The Firing Line (TFL), a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership.
Another suggestion is to participate....including a dissenting opinion. That is a viable technique for discussion.

You are perfectly within your privy to say, "I do not agree!"

It is even better when you say, "I do not agree...AND HERE IS WHY."

That lends to even more discussion that we can all possibly learn something.

As you get more and more advanced, becoming better at discussion you will find that the ability to express all points of view and being entitled to the freedom of holding any point of view does not equate to all points of view being equal or even correct.

Simply put, if you stand for nothing...you will fall for anything!!

davidsog is offline  
Old May 23, 2019, 12:52 PM   #28
TxFlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Posts: 1,229
I didn’t realize the LCP is that much smaller. I don’t think there’s anything difference between getting hit with a 380 or 9mm coming from short barrel. LCP can fulfill a role that P365 can’t, deep concealment while being equally effective ballistically
TxFlyFish is online now  
Old May 23, 2019, 12:56 PM   #29
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 857
Quote:
I don’t think there’s anything difference between getting hit with a 380 or 9mm coming from short barrel.
The trick is landing the hits. There is a reason why the sights are different. The design goals are different.

Quote:
while being equally effective ballistically
They are not equally effective by design. They meet different design goals according to the manufacturers.

The LCP IAW Ruger's mission sacrifices size for combat capability. It is a hail mary back up weapon not intended as a primary and is a defensive firearm.

The SIG P365 retains combat capability in as small a package as practical to retain that combat capability.

It is capable of fulfilling the role of a primary duty firearm. The LCP is not.

Last edited by davidsog; May 23, 2019 at 01:03 PM.
davidsog is offline  
Old May 23, 2019, 01:41 PM   #30
TxFlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Posts: 1,229
I see what you are saying about “combat capability” of 365. You are saying that 365 is the most efficient design (size v capacity) that is still shooteable?

There’s truth to that. The 365 however cannot match the deep concealment capability of a LCP. While the LCP can almost shoot as well as the 365, the 365 can’t get down to the size of the LCP. There are many guns in the 365 category, not as many in LCP. I call that “combat capability” as well
TxFlyFish is online now  
Old May 23, 2019, 02:10 PM   #31
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 857
Quote:
The 365 however cannot match the deep concealment capability of a LCP.
Sure can't but it is not very far off of it either. It is personal choice but I run a P365 IWB Strong Side in shorts, t-shirt, and flip-flops all day every day.

You can pocket carry a P365 but it is not my choice. Some people do though!!

A quick google search will reveal a number of choices for pocket carry....

http://aliengearholsters.com/sig-p36...t-holster.html

https://clingerholsters.com/product/...ocket-holster/

Quote:
There are many guns in the 365 category,
Not really. The capacity/concealment capability was driven by engineering redesign of the magazine with the resulting patents.

Not sure how you are going to get that combination of concealment/capability with out it.

You are correct in there are many choices that match or are even better in one parameter or another. That is easy to find.

I will take an HK USP any day of the week in a pistol fight over the SIG P365. Unfortunately printing can get you in trouble and violates the CW laws of my state. It is just not as comfortable IWB, strong side, t-shirt, shorts, and flip flops, either.

The trick is the combination of concealability and capability.
davidsog is offline  
Old May 23, 2019, 02:17 PM   #32
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 857
Quote:
Depending upon which source one chooses to study, the average number of rounds fired in a deadly encounter is between two and four. So the guy who likes to bet his life on averages would say that he is good to go with a five-shot, snub-nose revolver with no extra reload.
Quote:
We carry extra ammunition to deal with all of those things that can go wrong when the shooting starts.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...e-on-averages/

Nobody complains about bringing too many bullets to the fight. Not bringing enough will cause some complaining.
davidsog is offline  
Old May 23, 2019, 08:16 PM   #33
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1,303
Thanks Davidsog.

Your prodigious tenure on this forum is something to aspire to.

I appreciate your pep talk.



I think this is pretty worthless. I carried a P3AT in 2007. If someone doesn't like the LCP, that's great. But history is already written on it.

I'm just comparing the size of an LCP and a P365 because you'll notice...I asked this question like 3 weeks ago and no one had any comparison pics.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old May 24, 2019, 07:25 AM   #34
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 857
Quote:
If someone doesn't like the LCP, that's great.

Quote:
davidsog says:
That does not mean there is not a place for the LCP or that is it is a bad design.

It is a different tool and the two are not directly comparable.
I think comparing the LCP to other back up defensive handguns shows it is a great design.

https://www.personaldefenseworld.com...r-lcp-pistols/
davidsog is offline  
Old May 24, 2019, 08:36 AM   #35
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild cat mccane View Post
Thanks Davidsog.

Your prodigious tenure on this forum is something to aspire to.

I appreciate your pep talk.



I think this is pretty worthless. I carried a P3AT in 2007. If someone doesn't like the LCP, that's great. But history is already written on it.

I'm just comparing the size of an LCP and a P365 because you'll notice...I asked this question like 3 weeks ago and no one had any comparison pics.
Just for info, since 'we' are reveling in the 'joy' of the Sig 365...and how it's considered a 'combat' pistol..

https://guntalk.com/news/guns/glock-43x-v-sig-p365
Quote:
Another suggestion is to participate....including a dissenting opinion. That is a viable technique for discussion.

You are perfectly within your privy to say, "I do not agree!"
http://soldiersystems.net/2019/03/04...3x48-magazine/

Flush fit..shorter than sig 365 with 12R..mmmm.....
Quote:
What is this sorcery and witchcraft?
There is actually a lot of empty space in the G48 magazine. I was actually working on getting a CZ75 compact magazine to fit, but if these guys can actually mass produce it, then that would be a lot nicer.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg maxresdefault.jpg (217.9 KB, 29 views)
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”

Last edited by USNRet93; May 24, 2019 at 09:41 AM.
USNRet93 is offline  
Old May 24, 2019, 08:18 PM   #36
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1,303
I couldn't pocket carry my G43.

Also, the G43 is longer than the P365.

Heck, I think the G42 is longer than the P365 too?

Cool non the less--if it works

Last edited by wild cat mccane; May 24, 2019 at 08:24 PM.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old May 24, 2019, 11:29 PM   #37
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 857
Quote:
I couldn't pocket carry my G43.


Yeah I was not going to point out the pictures in the article USNRet93 posted where optically deceiving and all you had to do was read the dimensional data to see the G43X was larger than the P365.

That of course is not withstanding the 1/10th of inch width advantage of the G43...width being a key dimension in concealability.
davidsog is offline  
Old May 25, 2019, 06:12 AM   #38
Carl the Floor Walker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2017
Posts: 441
For sure there are much better Pocket guns out there than the Ruger LCP. It is on the bottom end as far as quality. Cheap sights, no ability to add night sights, aluminum frame that will crack under pressure, and on and on. And certainly not the best shooting characteristics.

Pocket guns are more effective than most people on the internet give them credit for. In the right hands of someone that trains often they are extremely fast to the draw, capable of shooting to center mass up to and beyond 10 yards. And forget about all this need for extra magazines and ammo count. If you cannot hit your target first and with a few shots, then you are dead anyway.
Get a good quality 380. These Pocket guns do not hold up to aluminum. Get one with a steel sub-chassis, they Last. Train often and diligently. And you will have great protection for EDC.

Last edited by Carl the Floor Walker; May 25, 2019 at 06:19 AM.
Carl the Floor Walker is offline  
Old May 25, 2019, 06:49 AM   #39
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
For sure there are much better Pocket guns out there than the Ruger LCP. It is on the bottom end as far as quality. Cheap sights, no ability to add night sights, aluminum frame that will crack under pressure, and on and on. And certainly not the best shooting characteristics.

Pocket guns are more effective than most people on the internet give them credit for. In the right hands of someone that trains often they are extremely fast to the draw, capable of shooting to center mass up to and beyond 10 yards. And forget about all this need for extra magazines and ammo count. If you cannot hit your target first and with a few shots, then you are dead anyway.
Get a good quality 380. These Pocket guns do not hold up to aluminum. Get one with a steel sub-chassis, they Last. Train often and diligently. And you will have great protection for EDC.
Doesn't the LCP have a polymer frame? Had one, pretty sure it was 'plastic'..
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old May 25, 2019, 11:26 AM   #40
Leaf
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2018
Posts: 198
Quote:
no ability to add night sights
Yeah but a laser fits beautifully on the LCP. Likewise on the 365.
Leaf is offline  
Old May 25, 2019, 01:05 PM   #41
TxFlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Posts: 1,229
The lcp is one the best pocket carry. I can’t think of another actually...everything else (other than its cousin) seems to be either heavier or less reliable cough Kimber cough
TxFlyFish is online now  
Old May 25, 2019, 05:46 PM   #42
dsk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 19, 2001
Posts: 1,601
Those two happen to be my primary carry pistols. I try to carry the P365 whenever possible, usually pocket carry but sometimes belt carry if the situation calls for it. The LCP is for those occasions when I can't bring along the P365 because even it is too big to effectively conceal.

No mechanic that I know of keeps only one size wrench in his tool box.
dsk is offline  
Old May 25, 2019, 06:07 PM   #43
davidsog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 13, 2018
Posts: 857
Quote:
No mechanic that I know of keeps only one size wrench in his tool box.
Exactly
davidsog is offline  
Old July 10, 2019, 03:54 AM   #44
amyacker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2019
Posts: 5
Quote:
https://www.sigsauer.com/products/fi.../pistols/p365/

The P365 is designed to be a combat pistol that is concealable. Out of the holster is designed to fill the capability of a full sized duty combat pistol.

These pistols have two very different design philosophies and are not really comparable.
Anybody know if the P365s are still having issues where the firing pins break after a few hundred rounds?
amyacker is offline  
Old July 10, 2019, 06:48 PM   #45
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 12,103
The LCP is perfect at what it was designed for.... the Sig was designed to fit a different role.

While I can't speak to the Sig, nothing has ever pushed my LCP out of the role it was designed to fill.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old July 10, 2019, 08:29 PM   #46
wild cat mccane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1,303
Firing pin appears to be fine now.

Remember I own both as pictured, and the LCP had a decade of revisions when it started life as the Kel Tec P3AT with upgrades to the slide weight, extractor, barrel ramp, etc. P3AT now is currently 3rd gen. I owned all three gens of the P3AT beginning when there was only one.

Granted, the LCP is nicer all around.

Last edited by wild cat mccane; July 10, 2019 at 08:36 PM.
wild cat mccane is offline  
Old July 11, 2019, 08:07 AM   #47
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by amyacker View Post
Anybody know if the P365s are still having issues where the firing pins break after a few hundred rounds?
https://sigtalk.com/p365/324376-365-problems.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/CCW/comment..._while_issues/

'Probably' latest gens have no problems..google-foo shows last mentions about 11 months ago. If buying used, I'd certainly determine born-on date and if the small 'r' recall things were done.
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old July 17, 2019, 12:41 AM   #48
amyacker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2019
Posts: 5
Quote:
https://www.sigsauer.com/products/fi.../pistols/p365/
https://www.osagecountyguns.com/sig-...xl-9-bxr3.html


The P365 is designed to be a combat pistol that is concealable. Out of the holster is designed to fill the capability of a full sized duty combat pistol.

These pistols have two very different design philosophies and are not really comparable.
I hear what you said about the holster, but with the beauty of 10 or 12 rounds, having to reload will be virtually non-existent. Most real world engagements are over in 5 rounds.
amyacker is offline  
Old July 17, 2019, 07:36 AM   #49
OhioGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2016
Posts: 889
I have a Beretta Pico that I occasionally pocket carry when dress dictates I can't really conceal anything else, or when I'm going to be especially active (hiking, lots of bending, etc) and clearing my waistband is a matter of practicality. Otherwise I don't particularly need anything that small. Your photos are helpful here, as I'd considered a P365 as a "pocket pistol" alternative, but ain't no way that's fitting in the kinds of pockets I carry in -- usually business casual or dress pants -- heck in some of them the Pico barely fits!

If I were starting over with CCW guns I might get the P365, or even the new 365XL. As it is, I have a 15 round gun, an 8 round gun, and a .380 pocket gun, so the 365 wouldn't fit any niche for me. Nice little gun though.
OhioGuy is offline  
Old July 17, 2019, 09:01 AM   #50
IdaD
Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2018
Location: Idaho
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
I have a Beretta Pico that I occasionally pocket carry when dress dictates I can't really conceal anything else, or when I'm going to be especially active (hiking, lots of bending, etc) and clearing my waistband is a matter of practicality. Otherwise I don't particularly need anything that small. Your photos are helpful here, as I'd considered a P365 as a "pocket pistol" alternative, but ain't no way that's fitting in the kinds of pockets I carry in -- usually business casual or dress pants -- heck in some of them the Pico barely fits!

If I were starting over with CCW guns I might get the P365, or even the new 365XL. As it is, I have a 15 round gun, an 8 round gun, and a .380 pocket gun, so the 365 wouldn't fit any niche for me. Nice little gun though.
I'm kind of in the same boat with the set of pistols I carry - 9mm Shield and 2.0 Compact, and a 380 LCP. A 365 is an attractive package that does some things better than those guns (and some things not as well), but ultimately it would be superfluous and I'd rather acquire guns that serve other purposes. I also agree about pocket carry - an LCP is all the gun I want to try to carry that way. A 365 is a bit smaller than my Shield but nowhere near small enough to fit in my pockets comfortably or with any degree of concealment.
IdaD is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09596 seconds with 9 queries